need help with a strange electrical problem...please!!+video

[voyager3142]

hi guys i have a 92 j plate 318 cab. its basically not starting. when i turn the key and get the dash lights on i'm hearing alot of clicking noises from the engine bay and the fuel pump intermittently activating. if i turn the key all the way it wont fire up just keeps trying.



at postion 1 on the image the orange relay is clicking slightly and the blue one a little more but the white one is constantly clicking. i'm also hearing clicking from position 2 near the injector (also hearing something that sounds like a jet of liquid rushing through a pipe here). also hearing clicking at position 3 i think that the ICV. i pulled out the white relay and the clicking at positions 2 and 3 stop.

any ideas guys?

[E30Gheko]

Presuming your battery is charged have you checked the earth straps? I would also check the connectors on the starter motor. One of mine came off and that made it behave very wierdly instead of starting the car...

[voyager3142]

just had a look at the starter all wires connected. also had a look at a wiring diagram and the white one is the main relay and the blue one the fuel pump relay. still clueless as to why they are constantly clicking

[E30Mark]

As the other chap said, is the battery charged?

[E30Gheko]

Is the battery definately charged?

[voyager3142]

yep def charged. was running only few days ago but was stalling alot at junctions. back then it was only the fuel pump relay that kept clicking. the main white relay problem only started today.....i think. could it be the ECU?

[gareth]

ECU is the 'monkey in a garage cop-out' excuse for most things! unlikely to be the problem.

assuming it's fully charged.....
can you reach the starter easily? with a test lead, apply 12v from the battery positive to the small terminal on the starter solenoid (piggyback on the starter). does it crank over? if not, try shorting the two fat terminals together to test the starter itself.
i'm sure brianmooooore will be along with a more technical and neater test for this but i've described how i do it

[voyager3142]

just taken this video to show you what is going on. pretty sure the starter is fine because it does crank over just wont fire. The clicking noise is only happening when the ignition is on but not when i'm cranking it over....have a watch see what you think..cheers for help guys

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v380/ ... 2009-1.flv

[gareth]

ahaaaa, that makes things clearer sounds like your engine is possesed!

new one on me, not heard anything like that before. when my ignition is on, my idle control valve makes a humming noise but otherwise it's all quiet. the fuel pump only makes a noise once i start cranking.

[voyager3142]

i know weird aint it!!!

[bodieanddoyle]

has it always been like this or just suddenly happened? i did a mates 318i touring when he fitted the engine and he'd put two of the relays the wrong way round, giving a massive rumbling ICV sound. one of the relays needs to be a five pin, if you fit a four pin it screws it all up. might not be your prob but worth checking since its quick and easy

[voyager3142]

the main relay(white one) just started clicking constantly today, but the fuel pump relay has been clicking for a few weeks. i haven't moved any relays around. only thing i've done today was to get to the blower behind the firewall. i'm not sure if this may have disturbed something??

[E30Gheko]

relays wont work one day and not the next. It's a gradual decline into oblivion... New ones may be the answer??

[voyager3142]

is there any way to check, like shorting some of the connections in the relays socket

[Brianmoooore]

If it cranks properly, then there is nothing wrong with the battery, it's connections, or the engine earth strap.
The clicking white (DME) relay is the key symptom, as everything else that's acting up is slaved off of this.
The green ignition switched wire from the ignition switch supplies power to the + terminal of the coil, and sends a 'switch on' signal to the ECU, which in turn switches on the white relay, which then it tun switches on the rest of the 'clicking' bits.
First test is to connect a 12 volt lamp between the + terminal of the ignition coil and the earth terminal on the RH suspension turret, and see what this does when you try to start it.

[voyager3142]

ok connected the bulb and it stays on while cranking the engine. when key is on but not cranking the bulb flickered along with the other clicking bits

[Brianmoooore]

If the bulb behaves when cranking, (ignition switch position 3), but flickers when in position 2, the switch itself is probably faulty.
BUT, it should start, and then stop when the key is released. Maybe a second fault has developed.
Connect a piece of wire directly from the battery + terminal to the + terminal of the coil (leaving the existing wire to the terminal in place.)
What happens now?

[voyager3142]

connected the wire like you said. ignition lights were on without the key in, guess thats the bypass. the clicking was still there before i started cranking it. when i cranked it, it did feel like it was gonna fire but just couldn't get there.

[Brianmoooore]

Pull out the white relay, identify pins 30 and the two 87's, and use a couple of pieces of wire to link all three of these pins together in the relay's socket.
Keep the battery to coil wire in place.

[voyager3142]

i link 30 to both 87's and then re attached the bypass wire from the battery +ve to the coil. as soon as i did this the clicking near the injectors was quite fast i think it was the evaporative purge valve but i maybe wrong. also the blue and orange relays were still activating intermittently. still didn't fire up tho when i cranked it.

[voyager3142]

might be wrong about the evaporative purge valve, just had a look at ETK and it looks more like the pressure regulator OR at least something behind that......maybe the injectors?? by the way thanks for the help

[Brianmoooore]

Well, you have the ignition locked on and the main DME relay locked on - and there's still things clicking!!
Let's see if the ECU is recognising the crank position sensor pulses and turning the fuel pump on.
Leave the other temporary links all in place, and connect your 12 volt lamp between fuse 11 and earth. Either jam a strand of wire in with one of the fuse legs, or touch the wire in through the top of the fuse onto the fuse wire, if the fuse construction allows it.
Bulb should light when you are cranking.

[voyager3142]

HI mate, tried car again this morning and got some new symptoms, with the key in the on position but not cranking, everything was clicking as per usual but also the rev counter needle, MPG needle and temp gauge needle were all jumping around. then tried cranking but still wouldn't fire.

Just been out and did what you said and the bulb stayed alight while cranking. Also thought i should mention that when i put the link wires in for the relay it was activating the fuel pump (and the light bulb) every 5 seconds or so......and this was before i put the wire back across the battery and coil. seems like it was getting power from somewhere???

if its easier Brian i'll give you a call? pm me your number if thats ok with you

[voyager3142]

had a word with a friend last night and he said he can lend me a diagnostic kit. would it be worth trying it?

[ucpsale]

Might be worth checking that the two wires running to the alternator are not shorting.

[TheHeap]

EARTH WIRE u just need to locate the b'stard

[voyager3142]

just tested alternator wires, no short there.

[voyager3142]

any final ideas on this one before i get shafted at a garage??