PLZ PLZ HELP BRIANMOOOORE!

[Sy_325]

hey guys,

fell to the bm last nite to start her up after around 4 months of dormancy...

battery charged, hooked up, turned her over... turn turn turn turn... no fire tho

I had a friend down (mechanic) who recons that not only is she getting no spark... but also cannot hear the fuel pump priming or running?

lastly, a fairly big point here... there is a clifford concept 50 alarm on the car (which has been a bit of a headache since owning the car)... could it be the reason for non starting?

[toby]

Can you turn the alarm off with a key on the siren unit?

Fuel and ignition, both not working could be an alarm problem.

Check for a live feed to the fuel pump.

[Sy_325]

Can you turn the alarm off with a key on the siren unit?

I have no idea pal? i know v little about the alarm... I have the manual somewhere here. The service history has a name of a guy that fitted it years ago, when i rang today to enquire he said it was a very old alarm and that it must have been over 10 years now since it was fitted...

do you recon there is a 'turn off switch'?

[toby]

Yes it's often a little stumpy key like the two silver keys near the centre of this pic (of a random alarm kit)

[Sy_325]

hmmm i know i have seen a key like that somewhere about here... i hope i haven't binned it

would there be any other way to disable it?

ps thank you for your replies

[toby]

Get it removed ultimately and all the wiring put back to how it was. If it has always been troublesome, bin it. They are no help with vehicle security on an E30.

Is the battery definitely OK?

[Sy_325]

i think that might be a very real course of action... stripping it out completely

we had the battery on, then we had one off a new vectra on it, turned and turned... seemed like it fired at one stage but then died within seconds

[toby]

Ok but I would double check basics first - like fuses, feed at fuel pump and that there is definitely no spark

[blingsta]

have you taken off the fuel line to check if fuel primes on ignition? or taken out a plug and with the HT lead on check if there is a spark or are you just assuming you havent got one?

[Sy_325]

@blingsta

yeah we had a plug off and is definately not receiving a spark, we had one of the fuel lines up at the front of the engine off and there is no fuel circulating round...

could it be a brain problem?

[blingsta]

i would goe with the alarm aswell then mate ! its not too difficult to rip the alarm out, just undo the under steering panel and you should find all the wire there, if not there then behind the glove box

[Sy_325]

your a gent! but to be honest I'l leave it with folks who know what they're doing lol as my wiring knowledge is limited to plugging stuff into a pc!

thanks for your help guys, I'l keep you posted!

[blingsta]

pls do mate, would like to know when you have it sorted..

[Sy_325]

ok,

so the alarm is now out... getting fuel now but still no spark...

changed the distributer cap and rotar arm as these were corroded, still no joy.


we tested the coil for power with ignition on and when cranking the engine, still no power to either side of the coil...

now... when the coil is fed direct to the battery (to the positive) the white relay on the passenger side clicks, and hey presto car starts...

we've tried different ecu and crank sensor, which hasn't solved the problem... is there anything else were missing? we presume its something to do with iginition... its like its not telling the relay to close to give power to the coil when ignition is on?

please help

[blingsta]

A job for Mr Mooore me thinks !

[Sy_325]

ok,

were thinking it must be a problem between the ignition to the coil...

could it be the relay? when we turn the ignition on there is no click from this, then once the coil is given direct feed from the batt it clicks! car starts!

were tracing our way through from the ignition through to the glovebox and to the relay now... on one of brians earlier postings (in relation to another sport with no coil power) he indicates that

the two pins on the socket above the glovebox aren't + and -, they're + in and + out. With the ignition on, you should get 12volts to earth from one of them, and both of them (obviously) with the loop in place.

we tried 2 ecu's... is there anything we've missed here??

what tells the relay to close to give power to the coil? the relay seems to work and the coil powers when fed direct :(

[Sy_325]

ok were pretty sure the relay is working fine

when the relay is closed manually, clicking occurs, when earthed against the car, clicking occurs. car fires.

so the relay is not getting triggered from the earth here... according to mr moore's previous postings the ECU earths the relay and coil? so would it potentially be wire that runs between the relay/coil and the ecu? we've swapped ECU's (from another 325i... poss different brain?) so pretty confident that isn't the problem... (unless there is a nack to swapping ecu's?)

could the wire connecting the ecu and coil have burnt out? or fused somewhere on route?

[Sy_325]

does anybody know the colour of the wire from the ecu to the coil?

the wire is green coming out of the coil header for the ECU

but at first glance the only matching wire at the ecu end is green/blue

[toby]

http://www.autolib.diakom.ru/CAR/BMW/19 ... 0DIAGRAMS/

that might be useful

looks like green is to ignition switch and black to ecu

[Brianmoooore]

we tested the coil for power with ignition on and when cranking the engine, still no power to either side of the coil...

now... when the coil is fed direct to the battery (to the positive) the white relay on the passenger side clicks, and hey presto car starts...

Haven't seen this thread before, and TBH, have only scanned through it now, but if this is still true, it's the key to your problems.
The + terminal of the coil (green wire) is fed directly from the battery, via the ignition switch, with no intervening fuses or relays, except relays that are part of any immobilisers.
Assuming other ignition switched things are working, the red wire from the battery to the ignition switch must be OK, and the problem must be with the green wire from the switch to the coil.
The wire from the switch goes through a plug and socket that should be clipped half way down the steering column, then splits a few inches later, at a soldered joint, between other ignition controlled functions and the feed to the engine loom.
The wire goes across the car behind the dash, to the two pin immobiliser socket above the glovebox, which should be fitted with a plug and shorting loop on cars without immobilisers, up through the duct behind the glovebox into the fusebox, straight through the fusebox without connecting to anything, and to the C101 engine loom socket beside the fusebox.
It passes through the C101, then splits inside the engine loom, via a soldered joint, with a wire going to the 'on' control pin of the ECU, and another going on to the + terminal of the coil.
Don't assume that the alarm you have removed is the only one fitted (I've found up to three, all connected, and all dead), and , of course, don't assume that the alarm fitters have used the socket for the purpose. I've already spent a couple of hours this afternoon trying to repair yet another butchered E30 loom - the handiwork of yet another "professional" alarm fitter!!

[blingsta]

Mr Moooore...

How bout if i open you a e30 garage !! next door to my house?

[Sy_325]

The wire from the switch goes through a plug and socket that should be clipped half way down the steering column, then splits a few inches later, at a soldered joint, between other ignition controlled functions and the feed to the engine loom.

so we pulled the glovebox out today to trace the wire from the ignition through to the bulkhead on the passenger side...

we have it pretty much stripped and are scratching our heads so we took a pic and will try to explain...



1. wire continues to the passenger side straight from white multiplug under steering column, with no soldered joins,

2. straight into (what we can see is) the abs brain...

we haven't stripped the insulation towards the bottom of the pic, to be honest (we don't want to open a can of worms)... we can see our green wire going in...

3. although several coming out... all green, some big some small

(from wat we can see 3 going in, diff sizes/colours, 3 coming out, diff sizes/colours)

4. some exit the bulkhead as brian mentioned, to presumably go to the fuse box.


have we missed the split that you mentioned? from what we can see there is no split... Would the problem be with the year of my car? 93 cabriolet?

[Sy_325]

we took the clocks out to check for a split on the drivers side/under column, we weren't able to find one anywhere, it seems solid all the way across from the multiplug to the above image

[Sy_325]

bumpidy...

[Sy_325]

bump

Still no joy getting the car started.

@Brianmoooore - mate would it be possible to give you a call, willing to pay for your time, I'd rather see you get it than some garage?

utterly scunnered, the car was supposed to be going for a restoration short of month ago

[Chris]

If you have removed an alarm/immobiliser, have you deffinatly got the link wire/jumper in the accessory socket?

Was the alarm well fitted ie. did it use proper plugs in the correct places or was it a mess of 'scotchlocks' and leccy tape?

[BONNARSKI]

Was me took it out for Sy lad, was a good job, effort had actually been put into it which is unusual lol. This yocks fryin our heads but still not beat, goin to hit it again tomorrow so will keep yal posted, thanks.

[cliff_costa]

dont now but have u trid the two senser conicshons under the servic reset plug thay can be poot the rong way round

[BONNARSKI]

The only cuts on the alarm was on the ignition and starter wires, everything else was just soldered on like to work the indicators or locking. I thought ECU cause going by wiring diagrams its the only thing seems to connect the coil and DME relay.

[Sy_325]

Why when the coil is fed a live does the DME relay click and car starts? It must back-feed some how, only thing seems to connect the two is the alarm. Any ideas?

[Brianmoooore]

When the ignition switch is on, there should be 12 volts on the + terminal of the coil.
The power comes from the switch via a green wire with just three plugs and sockets along the way. No fuses or relays UNLESS an immobiliser is fitted.
The correct socket for the immobiliser (one of the three) is above the glove box, and is a two pin socket with a green wire to each pin, but there's no guarantee than any alarm fitter has used the correct socket as most wouldn't have a clue.

[BONNARSKI]

Thanks for replys people.
Traced the green ignition wire from ignition barrel, through the white multi plug, up into the dash over to the ABS brain above the glove box, from there through the bulkhead into the fuse box, through the fuse box into the engine plug, from there into the engine loom to the coil. Didnt see any plugs on it journey,even tried a different brain and coil in the car to day, still same problem. Thinkin it might be the earth cable from the coil which goes to the brain is the culpret. Ideas?

[Brianmoooore]

If fitting the jumper wire from battery + to the coil + makes any difference (ignition switch on), there is a problem along the green wire!
Try connecting a bulb between the green wire and earth at the C101 engine plug, and see if it lights steadily with the jumper wire removed and the ignition on.