325i sport vs escort rs turbo

[rallye_turtle]

escort rs turbos are shit....end of

LOL!!! I kind of agree with this. Don't get me wrong, back in the day they did seem like nice motors but you only have to put the RST side by side with an E30 and you can notice the difference in build quality a mile off, hence the reliabilty issue with the RST. I've had lots of mates who've had the RST and were forever having issues with them. In a race I'd go with what most people r saying in that it would be close, but the old E30 would sail past if it were given a chance to reach top-end.

But then each to there own I guess

[Morat]

Do you still get a free tracksuit with an RST?

[jamie325isport]

Do you still get a free tracksuit with an RST?

Lol tracksuit, wasnt it shellsuits!!

[oakey]

Do you still get a free tracksuit with an RST?

Afraid not. It has now been upgraded to a imitation burberry cap.

A 325i is a whole second faster over the 1/4 mile so surely they must feel a fair bit quicker?

I've never driven a standard rst only one with a claimed 200bhp which was rapid

[tha_lick]

standard RST is slow. in standard form race i think the 325 would eat it alive. . . thats it the RST dont get stolen by council kids before the race

[R4N_S_S]

pmsl @ some the replies lol

take the blinkers off and compare similar power cars round a track

the rst would win

simple end of

[Morat]

pmsl @ some the replies lol

take the blinkers off and compare similar power cars round a track

the rst would win

simple end of

A little translation for our more literate friends:
simple end of = I don't have any arguments so I'm going to walk away and pretend I've won.

[Fushion_Julz]

pmsl @ some the replies lol

take the blinkers off and compare similar power cars round a track

the rst would win

simple end of

Ok...let's compare...

Escort RS: 130bhp 1000Kg so 130bhp/tonne
BMW E30: 170bhp 1250kg so 136bhp/tonne

about even...

However, the Escort is fwd and that limits the traction (remember, all standard cars, here).

Therefore I'd say that all things being even, the BMW would be faster around *most* tracks...

I recall, also the RS turbo being used as a Group A touring car...The RS1600 was pretty successful in this respect racing in the under 1600cc class against Golfs and Audi 80s (and the odd Mini). However, the RS Turbo was in the 1600-2500 class against the Alfa GTV6 and the BMW325...Here it failed abismally with (IIRC) many non-finishes due to snapped driveshafts and other transmission woes as it struggled to put down the power to the road...
In fact, best car in this class was the overweight, rwd, GTV6...Due mainly to its' excellent chassis balance and huge power advantage...

[town325i]

how can you start to compare two totaly different cars? its like comparing the beetles to the rolling stones two different types of music suprissed the m42 lovers havnt piped up saying there revy engines will beat them all

[Felix79]

blimy, a 318is v 325i thread and now this one. How we are so cherished with such brilliant debate!

Quick question, would the RST suffer with turbo lag?

[Fushion_Julz]

But that is what racing (or any competition) does...

Touring cars, in particular, compare cars of all diffrent sorts (or at least they used to)...

Group A cars basically just had to be based on a road-going version with certain allowable mods and were sorted into classes depending on cubic capacity of the engine.

In the heyday you would see Class A Rovers, Jags, Volvo 242 turbos, Audi 5000s, BMW 635csi and Sierra Cosworths against class B BMW M3s, 325s, Ford Escort turbos, Alfa GTV6s, Mazda RX7s against class C Escort RS1600, VW Golf, Mazda 929 and Audi 80s with a few others thrown in from time to time...

You could hardly get two different cars than a BMW635csi and a Volvo turbo...but they raced (closely) against each other...

[Fushion_Julz]

blimy, a 318is v 325i thread and now this one. How we are so cherished with such brilliant debate!

Quick question, would the RST suffer with turbo lag?

last one I drove, wasn't that bad for lag....torque steer was atrocious, though...

I'm sure you could make it handle and be reliable...whether it would be worth it, who knows...Personally, I'd rather have a 325...

[87mtech27]

blimy, a 318is v 325i thread and now this one. How we are so cherished with such brilliant debate!

Quick question, would the RST suffer with turbo lag?

i was thinking of starting a cossie (rs500) vs. e30 m3 (or 325i) thread, but then decided against over heating the zoners brains with 3 debates

[SUMPCRACKER]

blimy, a 318is v 325i thread and now this one. How we are so cherished with such brilliant debate!

Quick question, would the RST suffer with turbo lag?

i was thinking of starting a cossie (rs500) vs. e30 m3 (or 325i) thread, but then decided against over heating the zoners brains with 3 debates

Thats not a debate, just fact. The cossy is faster than the E30.

[87mtech27]

blimy, a 318is v 325i thread and now this one. How we are so cherished with such brilliant debate!

Quick question, would the RST suffer with turbo lag?

i was thinking of starting a cossie (rs500) vs. e30 m3 (or 325i) thread, but then decided against over heating the zoners brains with 3 debates

Thats not a debate, just fact. The cossy is faster than the E30.

cossie vs. m3 would be close, plus m3 would not have the turbo lag anyways i didn't just speed wise, built quality etc would also are important.

(starting to look like a thread hijack we should leave this for another day).

[R4N_S_S]

the rs500 vs m3 was done for real back in the 80s and 90s - it was called touring cars.

The end result was the cossie wiped the floor of all the M3s - it practically won everything it entered in touring cars and the sport rules were then changed meaning an end to its reign in Europe.

These touring cars then moved onto the likes of Australia where they raced in the Bathurst series.

[Felix79]

If that is the case why is the e30 M3 the most successfull touring car of all time?

When did the BTCC start the rule where the engine had to be a maximum of 2ltr?

I know the DTM seris use to have cars upto 3ltr because it was where I fell in love with the Opal Calibras ( yes I have owned two )

[R4N_S_S]

i wasnt talking about dtm.

look at the BTCC from the 80 and 90s - you will find the M3s are in a different class to the cossie.

they couldnt keep up with the rs500 - it was too powerful back then for an m3 and its still the same today.

iirrc touring rs500s were 550bhp back in the 80s/90s.

how much bhp were touring m3s?

look at the result history from that era - which car won more races - thank you please.

[87mtech27]

i wasnt talking about dtm.

look at the BTCC from the 80 and 90s - you will find the M3s are in a different class to the cossie.

they couldnt keep up with the rs500 - it was too powerful back then for an m3 and its still the same today.

iirrc touring rs500s were 550bhp back in the 80s/90s.

how much bhp were touring m3s?

look at the result history from that era - which car won more races - thank you please.

swear down iirc it was the e30 m3 that was wiping the floor with rs500, besides wasn't the m3 twice the price tag of the rs500 back in the day (rs500 being just 2-3k more than a 325i). obviously there must have been a reason for this (i.e. m3 being more sucessful).

jst going to log into youtube.

[87mtech27]

or how about a 190e vs e30 m3 thread

[ImysE30]

190E Cosworth

[Felix79]

Not 100% sure what BHP the M3's were running in Touring car form. I think they were around the 230bhp region for the BTCC. The DTM cars were more powerfull but I honestly have no clue how big the engine was ( I think it was more than the 2.3 )

I'm at work at the moment so can't go through too much stuff but I know that the M3 was classed the most successfull of it's time.

[R4N_S_S]

The M3 and rs500 were in different classes.

RS500 was in class A

M3 was class B

Class a was for bigger engines over 2.5 whereas class b was upto 2.5.

Cossies were in Class a due to the turbo and power output - they were the most powerful car on track in the late 80s btcc

[Felix79]

I think thats the reason why.

The 190e was never ment to be a touring car, it was desinged to be a rally car but just before it was due to be unleashed Audi had stomped everything out with the quatro. The merc never stood a chance to do what it was ment to so they made it do touring cars. In all honesty the Cosworth 190e is one of the best looking mercs and cars of the 80's.

The Cossie was retardly fast but was really a Rally car at heart. The Saphire cosworth has the same base as the RS200 ( which IMO is the greatest Rally car never to have won ).

[87mtech27]

The M3 and rs500 were in different classes.

RS500 was in class A

M3 was class B

Class a was for bigger engines over 2.5 whereas class b was upto 2.5.

Cossies were in Class a due to the turbo and power output - they were the most powerful car on track in the late 80s btcc

after having done some research i conclude that your right .
dtm however was different and it is there that the m3 dominated.

Felix the racing m3 had the same 2.3ltr engine that was in the road going version because of homologation rules.

any change on the race car had to be implemented on the road car as well, hence the evo's (m3 evolutions plus rs500) and the ultimate being the 2.5 sport evo (as later on the 2.5 was introducted on the race track).

[Felix79]

Problem I have is I didn't get into Touring cars untill 93 ( when Mansell stopped F1 ) and I lost intrest after they changed so many rules it ruined the sport. I still get slight wood at the thought of the Alfa's which were just the monks nutts in the early -mid 90's.

[Morat]

A mate of mine spannered on M3s doing the World Touring Cars (I think it only lasted a very short time) and he said that the M3s were fantastic cars but outgunned by the time the RS500 turned up - Ford drivers just upped the boost and drove away.

[R4N_S_S]

when it comes to cossies i know im right.

i watched the touring cars in the late 80s and early 90s with great admiration and that is the one of the main reasons of wanting a cossie

but i think we are going off topic here.

[ShakeyC]

It went from ETCC to WTCC briefly by this time the yanks had crawled back to texarse, by then the grid was so stretched in europe the WTCC split off to BTCC and DTM of 2 major reasons.

1. safety the likes of M3 being back markers consistantly being lapped getting in the way all the time

2. from 70-90's before intershed these races is what got people into showrooms and in BMW case they ran off to mummy and started own make series and some of the lesser manufactures joined them with specific rules and regs so BMW had good chance of remaining at the top but these were nowhere near as famous at ETCC or BTCC which followed.

It still happens now look at last years BTCC those orange BMW's always behind the superior FWD Seat's and Honda's. Same with Pug and Citreon ran of with their own series like SaxMAX because they were wee'd all over in Super1600's and Production Hot Hatch series of late 90's

ps when the RS500 were out-lawed in 92 i think it was the standard 208bhp Sierra Cossies still lapped faster than the rest at most circuits. The only time they were really out of depth was in when Ford mixed up Falcon and Sierra in Bathurst which lead them to being rapped by R32 Skyline, by this time more rules and regulations severly restricted Sierra and Skyline with weight balasts and intake restrictors, exhaust restrictors and always scrutinised whenver reaching a points position then slapped with penalties on top Maybe Aussies are bigger babies than the Germans?

[Felix79]

I think the biggest problem with modern racing is it's all done to a budget so as many privaters can compeat as possible to make sure there is a big grid. I remember Matt Neal in his Nissian Primaer being the first privaeter to win a round of the BTCC.

What always suprised me is why BMW never bothered to turbo the M3 for racing.

[e30bmlover]

in standard form i would choose the 325 as im a e30 bum(saved someone else the trouble of typing it) lover... plus its not a ford!

[bss325i]

The Cossie was retardly fast but was really a Rally car at heart. The Saphire cosworth has the same base as the RS200 ( which IMO is the greatest Rally car never to have won ).

The Sierra cosworth was designed from the outset for saloon car circuit racing, not rallying despite ebing used in grp A form on some tarmac rallies.

The saphire cosworth 4x4 was also used in rallying but was not ideal due to size and weight.

The saphire cosworth shares virtually nothing with the RS200!

[Felix79]

The Cossie was retardly fast but was really a Rally car at heart. The Saphire cosworth has the same base as the RS200 ( which IMO is the greatest Rally car never to have won ).

The Sierra cosworth was designed from the outset for saloon car circuit racing, not rallying despite ebing used in grp A form on some tarmac rallies.

The saphire cosworth 4x4 was also used in rallying but was not ideal due to size and weight.

The saphire cosworth shares virtually nothing with the RS200!

I always thought it was done for Rally 1st before Touring. Learn something new every day

[bss325i]

The Cossie was retardly fast but was really a Rally car at heart. The Saphire cosworth has the same base as the RS200 ( which IMO is the greatest Rally car never to have won ).

The Sierra cosworth was designed from the outset for saloon car circuit racing, not rallying despite ebing used in grp A form on some tarmac rallies.

The saphire cosworth 4x4 was also used in rallying but was not ideal due to size and weight.

The saphire cosworth shares virtually nothing with the RS200!

I always thought it was done for Rally 1st before Touring. Learn something new every day

Stuart Turner (head of Frod motorsport in 83) and some bosses from America came up with the idea for a turbo charged sierra after seeing a prototype YB head on a pinto bottom end at cosworth and devised a car to beat the dominant rover vitesses which were mullering the Capri 3.0's being used in the 81 and 82 seasons.

[XRMike]

The problem with the Ford Escort RST/ BMW E30 325 debate is that most RST's are not standard. I bet even one that hasn't been fettled with but has been properly maintained is probably running in the region135-140 bhp, most have a few hundred pounds thrown at them and are making 160bhp+.
I own a Fiesta RST myself, even though it has the smaller Turbo-charger (T2 instead of the Escort's T3), it still made the same BHP as the Escort did when new. Ive chipped mine, fitted a larger intercooler, custom S/S Exhaust system and with the boost turned up by 6 PSI its a different animal to a standard one and all for less than £500.
The CVH engine is a good-un if looked after and are stupidly cheap, the oil pick-up pipe needs cleaning every 50k, regular oil changes and a new cam and lifters after 100k (solid ones allow higher RPM) will make then engine feel like new again.
I rekon a lot of it will be down to the driver