AlpineAde's 325i (Update NOV '11)

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AlpineAde
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Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:44 am

Thanks, powelly! I'm sure your car will look great.

A little while ago I mentioned that my clutch was throwing a hissy fit. I had to replace it, So I ordered one of these:

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It's a segmented kevlar clutch form UUC Motorwerks.

Features:

* 2400psi (or greater) clamping force.
* Torque capacity up to 650lb-ft (varies by application - see application guide.
* Sprung-hub center option on all applications ("retrofit" for fixed-hub models improves clutch smoothness).
* Complete elimination of problematical SAC (Self Adjusting Clutch) mechanism for applications originally fitted with SAC.
* Performance friction material fully bonded to steel disk backing plate for improved heat dissipation and durability.
* "Massive overkill" drive straps more resistant to breaking under extreme or ultra-high revving custom motors.
* Marcel spring clutch disk "wafer" for enhanced smoothness.
* Pressure plate cover manufactured by Sachs in Germany, performance diaphragm manufactured in USA.
* Genuine Sachs release bearing and alignment tool included.
* All clutches are "direct fit" and require no modifications. Normal installation procedures apply.
* SFI-certified manufacture.

Here it is:

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Of course, the clutch is overkill ~ but I don't care. :) I got a great deal on it and if I ever decide to really go bonkers with the engine then this clutch will take whatever I can possibly imagine to throw at it. Initial impression is one of great "feel". It's a little heavier than standard but much lighter than I thought it might be. I'm a big fan of UUC products and my opinion has not changed one jot. It was nearly 40 degrees celsius on the drive home but I didn't notice ~ I was too busy enjoying the car...and the clutch.
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AlpineAde
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Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:03 am

Update:

Miller MAF arrived. Goes in on Friday. We shall see what we shall see I suppose...

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Speedtouch
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Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:09 am

Wot no label to cover the window on that Miller MAF EPROM chip :eek:

Also, strange that it should have 'M3' written on it :?
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
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AlpineAde
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Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:28 am

"173"

Label? I'm not sure what you mean?

The chip arrived as you see it in its little box.

As you can tell, I am not particularly au fait with this side of things so I am unsure how to answer.

My mechanic didn't bat an eye, though ~ and he has a sterling reputation.

EDIT: What I mean to say is why does it need a label? Nothing is exposed. The case is sealed.
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Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:34 am

Oh, my mistake - 173 kind of looks like M3 the way it's written :mad:

It is normal practice once an EPROM has been programmed to attach an opaque label to cover the glass window, to prevent ultra-violet light (from the sun/camera flashes/fluorescent/UV lamps, etc.) from inadvertently erasing the contents of the chip.

Of course, once it's installed in the ECU, it's effectively shielded from light but you may want to apply a label to be on the safe side. :wink:
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
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AlpineAde
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Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:09 pm

Ah, righto! Thanks for that. I might email Miller and see what they have to say. Perhaps they thought the jewel case thingie case enough. I hope the photo didn't harm it. I'll blame them if it does. :)
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Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:53 am

And fitted....


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The car started first pop. Smooth idle. No dramas with the installation, though it did prove to be a little more time consuming than indicated by the Miller people.

Initial impression: the "urge" that comes with these motors at around 4000 rpm is gone. There appears to be a smoother delivery now and this could be attributed to a change in the software/chip and a change in the midrange. I didn't feel that the car is noticeably quicker...just that it appears to pull very easily in higher gears from lowish revs. Throttle response is definitely snappier. We'll have to wait for the dyno before a final opinion can be formed and Miller's claims supported or contradicted. Note: from take-off the car appears to have lost a bit with it appearing a little "soft" below 2500-3000rpm. This, too, will be something to watch.

Problem: idle is now very low ~ smooth, but low. Almost problematically so. The car used to idle around 850rpm and is now nowhere near that. Because the AFM is gone there is no means of adjusting this so it might come down to physically adjusting the throttle to compensate...or wait for the WAR chip and adjust through software. Perhaps the car is "learning" and the idle will settle with a few more kilometres. Tomorrow will tell as I have quite a few Eastlink kilometres to do and I am hoping to see further improvement.
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Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:13 pm

Nice looking installation. I fitted one to a previous 1988 325iSE and was quite impressed with it - removed the 'kangarooing' associated with the AFM, and as you say, a nice smooth and fast throttle response - you could drive it along for the most part with very light throttle inputs, which was great for fuel economy. 8)
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
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toby
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Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:21 pm

TPS ok? Getting the click when you open the throttle by hand (engine switched off?)


Nothing's moved since installation - leading to an air leak?

The idle is not adjustable - notwithstanding loss of the aiflow meter.
It is the CO which is not adjustable with the Miller MAF.
The idle is controlled by the idle control valve.
Is the idle control valve clean inside and functioning correctly? (I can send you something on how to test if you like?)


I think that the effective larger diameter air inlet will not produce less low down torque than with the airflow meter. The air may be coming in more slowly initially as the opening is wider. Although when the air is flowing faster you will get get much more airflow. This is consistent with a guy on here called Tim who mapped his 318is and it lost torque after removing the air flow meter when running Megasquirt.

The midrange surge and tke off after 4000 revs sounds like it's due to the new chip and its mapping.
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AlpineAde
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Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:40 pm

Speedtouch wrote:Nice looking installation. I fitted one to a previous 1988 325iSE and was quite impressed with it - removed the 'kangarooing' associated with the AFM, and as you say, a nice smooth and fast throttle response - you could drive it along for the most part with very light throttle inputs, which was great for fuel economy. 8)
I was surprised at just how light you could be on the throttle. It seems quite sensitive, quite responsive. In general, I'd always found the E30 throttle response to be a bit laggy if you know what I mean but this has tightened it up dramatically.
toby wrote:TPS ok? Getting the click when you open the throttle by hand (engine switched off?)
I can check that. Thanks.
toby wrote:Nothing's moved since installation - leading to an air leak?
Not that I could see. All appears as it should.

I have been speaking to another fellow on another forum here in Australia and he has a car similar in spec to mine and he, too, has a very low idle. Very strange. I almost believe that it is in the chip itself. I will be emailing Miller to see if they have had similar reports or can offer any suggestions.
toby wrote:Is the idle control valve clean inside and functioning correctly? (I can send you something on how to test if you like?)
I'm back at the mechanic;s during the week so we'll have a bit of a look. I think it is definitely worth a look as you say.
toby wrote:The air may be coming in more slowly initially as the opening is wider. Although when the air is flowing faster you will get get much more airflow. This is consistent with a guy on here called Tim who mapped his 318is and it lost torque after removing the air flow meter when running Megasquirt.
That makes sense. I'll investigate that one further. Thanks, man.
toby wrote:The midrange surge and tke off after 4000 revs sounds like it's due to the new chip and its mapping.
I do now think that Miller have written their chip to deliver a more "rounded" response to throttle input. It will just be a matter of getting used to the slightly different feel of the new dynamic of the vehicle now I reckon.

It will be interesting to see what the dyno throws up on this one. I'll see if I can get an overlay printout too so as to compare my baseline with the first stage of mods.
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toby
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Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:23 pm

Mine replacement chip is also mapped to give more midrange and not just kick in after 4000rpm. I prefer it.
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AlpineAde
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Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:46 am

It does make for better driving experience, doesn't it. I'm getting used to it now.

We went over everything again today, toby, and nothing seems amiss. I really think the low idle is part and parcel of the chip supplied for the MAF. The apparent lack of oomph from take-off wasn't apparent today, either. So that's good news.

What are we left with? Just the low idle and a slight hunting in certain conditions, ie. when reversing out and putting your foot on the clutch to select 1st; the revs drop and rise very slightly. Strangely (or not?) turning on the air conditioning doesn't affect the idle in the slightest.
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toby
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Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:13 pm

That's what the Miller Maf I tried was like. The engine just wanted to die all the time so I gave up with it.

Just to rule out the idle control valve: it should buzz when you turn on the ignition, the piston inside should rotate easily (can need cleaning), 40 ohms resistance between two outer terminals of ICV and roughly 20 ohms between outer and inner terminals.

Throttle switch is tested by ignition off, remove plug from switch - continuity between left terminal & centre terminal at closed throttle, for idle switch, and continuity between centre and right terminal for full throttle switch.

If these are both right, how's your CO and HC content on the gas analyser?
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AlpineAde
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:03 am

The car is booked in for next Friday and we will be spending the time looking at every possible cause for the low idle. Everything else about the conversion is fine. The car runs well. It idles smoothly. It just idles very low. So, into the shop with it and we'll go through all the usual suspects (and the unusual ones) and hook up the gas analyzer. We shall see what we shall see. A quick going over of the ICV and TPS showed them to be fine but the next time in everything will be looked at in depth. I'm sure a solution will be found and if it comes down to the low idle being a thing inherent in the chip itself my mechanic reckons he might have a solution for that as well. I'll report back once we know more.
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AlpineAde
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:36 am

Update: all components tested and everything is in fine fettle. The car was fine before the swap and has proven to be so afterwards. The idle issue is definitely related to the chip. When all other things have been excluded it stands to reason that the variable most recently introduced is the culprit. I've emailed Miller and I'm hoping to hear back soon as to what they suggest.
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:48 pm

Interesting that you should note this problem, as when robbieroo purchased my 1988 325iSE with Miller MAF he also mentioned about similar idle issues though I wasn't acutely aware of it prior to selling the car. IIRC, he returned it to the standard AFM setup.

He mentions it in this thread http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
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AlpineAde
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:01 pm

Now that is an interesting link! Thanks for that. I have also spoken to a fellow on another forum here in Australia who has exactly the same problem: a very low idle. The cars drive fine. We both agree that the MAF is beautifully made and that the chip itself seems well done in terms of mapping for the MAF...it's just this blasted low idle! LOL! We'll see what Miller say. Thanks again for that link.
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AlpineAde
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:54 am

UPDATE:

Today I received an email from Don Miller offering to send me a chip with a revised idle. "No problem", he said. He also gave me an option of waiting a month if I felt the car to be OK and arrange for a WAR chip to be sent. I am tempted to wait the month. He sent me the details of the WAR chip and I must say that it looks good. Very bloody good.

It is a write-and-remap chip that will offer 3 selectable maps that can be switched "on the fly" so, from what I understand form the booklet, you could run a "standard fuel saver", "performance" and either a "valet" or "race" map. Flick a switch and you can go from one to the other in an instant. It is looking good for nearly all BMWs 1995 and older.

The WAR chip replaces the current EPROM chip and is installed with a micro-switch and carries the means of plugging a USB connector into your laptop to make use of the tuning software. The software comes in two flavours: Basic and PRO. PRO can utilized by professional tuners and the Basic package is designed more for the home user (from what I can understand). It allows the following:

Fuel
- Idle
- Part Throttle
- Wide open Throttle
Ignition
- Idle
- Part Throttle
- Wide Open Throttle
RPM
- Idle
- Rev Limit
O2 Sensor
- On/Off depending on boost/load

If you are uncomfortable doing this or don't have access to a BMW tech, Miller are setting up a means where they will tune your car via files sent via email. They also intend to offer a "membership program" whereby file sharing amongst users will be enabled.

It looks pretty good. As I said above I am inclined to wait for the WAR chip, given the substantial mod that are being undertaken on my car in the next few months. The standard chip (which could take a week or two to arrive) would be rendered obsolete very quickly. I could use the month saving up for a little netbook computer (eeePCs can be had for as little as $300 now) and go from there.

Of course, it all depends on costs involved but I would be expecting some discount.
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toby
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:25 am

Let's hope they are good for their word as I've not heard good things about their customer service from other zoners. I don't want to sound negative about this product as I was keen to get one at one stage but was really unimpressed by it.
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:35 am

Perhaps the Yanks/Canadians prefer a low idle to suit their slushboxes?
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
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AlpineAde
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:40 am

Let's hope indeed, toby. If I get screwed around I will happily report it here (or, should I say, unhappily...but you get my point). So far there have been minor glitches (deliver delay) and the "naked" chip (which really should have been covered when I questioned my mechanic further) but they have been very prompt with all email/phone enquiries. Let's hope it comes off, as this WAR chip promise to be the very thing that I'm looking for.
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AlpineAde
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:05 am

Well, it's been a while. The car stalled a little through ill health and a funding lack, unfortunately, but we seem to be back on track now....These sort of projects all need money and sometimes with these things you just have to wait until you get a little in the piggybank.

The idle situation was most definitely down to the Miller chip. I think that they are very sensitive. Ordering a "stock" one when I did the MAF might have been a mistake as it doesn't take account of the BBTB and the inlet manifold work. SO, I'm stuck with an ilde around 700-720rpm until we can change it through whatever iteration of the Miller software we end up using. I'm hoping new injectors and fuel pump will smooth it out and render it a little less idiosyncratic, however. That being said, the idle is perfectly fine to live with.

Speaking of injectors, we came up up with some 18lb possibilities: Alfa and BMW. The Alfa ones were hideously expensive and would have taken ALL my money (yep...thousands). The BMW ones looked promising and I thought that would be the route that we'd go. It was an interesting choice in the end.

The car developed a dash issue which has been solved. No more strange occurrences (like the temp gauge surging, dash lights staying on, tacho jittering, etc). I went for a new backboard. Second hand just seemed silly and asking for trouble.

From RealOEM:

"05 Printed circuit board 1 09/1987 62111385581"



See:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=62&fg=05

There are two possible variants for these boards. Do make sure you get the right one before ordering if you ever find yourself needing this part.

Interestingly, the old board had some strange markings on it. The area around where the temp gauge sits was quite damaged (hence the dodgy readings). I suppose heat and printed boards do not mix. Hence the failure.

We also noted that the battery was cranking low and was less than optimal in its condition. So we binned it. For some strange reason, the previous owner had put a huge thing in there. Something you might see out of a 7 series...pumping out a huge whack of juice...and weighing a ton. The correct battery is now in place.

The car has also had a brake fluid change. I have been running AP Racing fluid (and have been very happy with it) but at my mechanic's suggestion I swapped to the Motul RBF 600. I wanted to try this one anyway, so I didn't need any convincing.

Further, the front strut mounts had seen better days. Actually, they were rooted. I could have gone for something that would allow a degree of adjustability but I am actually very happy with my settings and see no need to tweak them on a varying basis. That degree of interplay with with the setup of the car is not what this project is about. So, I went for the standard items. It is just nice having factory fresh in there.


I also received something nice in the mail:

Miller WAR:

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Which means we have this nice little collection of bits and pieces:

Image


Sweet!


I also sought out some larger injectors so as to make use of the more advanced map for the Miller system.

Mine were old and needed to be cleaned up (they are the standard 0 280 150 715 ~ M20B25/M40B18 units) so I took the opportunity to buy 8 second hand injectors with a higher rating and dropped them in for servicing (they are 0 280 150 714 units ~ from the M42B18/M30B35). They are the same size (EV1) and run the same resistance (15.9 ohm) and are rated at around 200cc/min at 3 bar. I choose these injectors over the M50/52 injectors because the M50/M52s, whilst the same shape, are of a different resistance. I believe that the 714 injectors are also sold as Ford Motorsport injectors.
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:11 am

ive been hounding the unofficial thread for before and after rolling road RE WAR chip. If you can check this out one day? :D
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AlpineAde
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:19 am

skipunda wrote:ive been hounding the unofficial thread for before and after rolling road RE WAR chip. If you can check this out one day? :D
I'm more than happy to post results of a dyno when I get my WAR up and running. I must say that after the last dyno I am very happy with the MAF swap. It makes peak power a whole lot earlier and holds power for much longer than standard. Peak power increased not too much (my fault for modding first and not mapping for the mods) but after the MAF conversion, things are smoother and with more power from earlier on the results are interesting: between about 4300-5800rpm there are instances where power is greater by as much as 7-8 Kw with a lower figure of 2-3 kw or so. Around 4-5 Kw seems to be the median. This would explain, along with the increase in torque (though not as much as described by Miller) why the car really seems to start to boogie beyond 4000rpm.

The MAF swap is a nice mod.
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323iNathan
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:23 am

m20b25's are supposed to idle between 700-770rpm, so your idle is fine.
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AlpineAde
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:43 am

760+/-40rpm according to the Haynes manual. I've also read of a figure of 820rpm give or take. Personally I prefer an 800 rpm idle. It's much nicer. Mind you, there is a slight stutter that might account for my liking for a higher idle but as we swap things out that is getting much smoother. As I said, though, the idle is quite livable with at the moment so I'm not really concerned with it. All that counts is that the car is pulling strongly as is nice and healthy. And it's only going to get better...so I'm happy with the progress.
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:25 am

I have just read this thread start to finish. From one Aussie to another, great work many your a bloody champion. Keep up the good work mate.

Mike
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AlpineAde
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:10 pm

Thanks! Those are kind words indeed. Much appreciated, man. Cheers!
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:39 am

yeah nuther aussie here as well, read from start to finish,some great info here.
got an 85 baur just transplanted a323 into it,motor,gearbox,frontend and rearend ,supertidy car but motor just too tired,upgrade makes it into a new car.
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AlpineAde
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:30 am

Nice one, man! Welcome to the forum.
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AlpineAde
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:18 am

Well, things have moved forward. The head is done, the cam is out being checked and cleaned up and my new injectors are due back after being refurbed.

Things are going well (touches a lot of wood).

Here's a few pics of the refreshed head.

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AlpineAde
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:23 am

Image


Image


Everything checked out beautifully ~ pressure tested, flowed, sweet! The only thing shot were the guides. They're not shot anymore. :)
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:18 am

Ade looks wonderful, how much did it cost to redo your head mate? Machining ect ect ect. I will be doing mine soon.

Mike
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AlpineAde
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:07 am

It depends where you go and who does it. And what needs doing. It'll vary. This job was around $600, which is a pretty good price, I reckon.
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:36 am

Did you supply any parts like valve guides, eccentrics? Was $600 just for machining alone? Sorry for the Qusetions mate but I dont want to be ripped off when mine gets done.

Did they reface the valves? recut the valve seats? chemically clean and reface the head?

Mike
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