few m60 conv questions?

[citizensnips]

alright,

i've finally got my engine up on the stand and had a browse of the e30.de site but few questions i couldnt find answered, especially as i had a babelfish translation to read

- it says i need a manual loom on the engine, my 4 litre has the auto loom on, but my 3 litre has the manual loom, can i swap them over and just pop i the 4 litre ecu to the 3 litre manual loom on my 4 litre?

- on the passenger side mount the oil pipes appear to join with the mount what happens to these when i use custom mounts ? do i make custom hoses to mount to the block? (not rmoved that mount yet so not fully sure what they join into)

- drivers side mount, do i chop off the mount from the air conditioning pump? do i still need the pump bit which holds the tensioner? what happens to the belt if i remove the pump or is it on its own small belt and water pump , alternator and power steering are on a seperate one?

sorry if these are bone questions, i cant find the answers on e30.de and am busy as hell at work so research time is limited

[PiLLLe]

1. If the engines are both m60 there is no difference. You can swap them.

2.You can chop the mount, and use only that bit of it, where oil pipes mount on it. (that is how i made it)



3. AC has its own belt. So if you are not running ac, you can remove the whole mount. I used free space to mount alternator there.

[bigdek]

you dont have to use a manual loom. works fine with the auto one without the gearbox ecu plugged in.

just hide the extra wires under the dash

[citizensnips]

thank you guys, thats good news on both counts, i'm sure i'll be back soon with more inane questions

[Jonsku]

Hmmm.. i've to disagree on couple of things..

- it says i need a manual loom on the engine, my 4 litre has the auto loom on, but my 3 litre has the manual loom, can i swap them over and just pop i the 4 litre ecu to the 3 litre manual loom on my 4 litre?

I'm using manual loom, it's straight plug'n'play, but you need knocking sensors from 3 litre also (the plug is different in 3 and 4 litre versions).
You can also use the auto loom, but then you need to wire it so that the car starts without signals from auto-box (the engine won't start if it doesn't get signal from gearbox that the gear is on P or N). That's doable, all you need is the schemas and some time. I doubt that it works just by unplugging the gearbox ECU.

- on the passenger side mount the oil pipes appear to join with the mount what happens to these when i use custom mounts ? do i make custom hoses to mount to the block? (not rmoved that mount yet so not fully sure what they join into)

Just chop it a little bit, but not too much (power-steering pump bolts on to it also..). Which engine mounts you're going to use?

- drivers side mount, do i chop off the mount from the air conditioning pump? do i still need the pump bit which holds the tensioner? what happens to the belt if i remove the pump or is it on its own small belt and water pump , alternator and power steering are on a seperate one?

As pille said before, just get rid of the mount and compressor, they're on different "circuit" than alternator and PS pump.

When you start doing the swap, post some pictures. Always nice to see how people do this swap

[bigdek]

trust me works fine with auto loom with the ecu not connected . ask oze30 he bought my unfinished running conversion

[Jonsku]

trust me works fine with auto loom with the ecu not connected . ask oze30 he bought my unfinished running conversion

Ok, well that's good to know just in case

Do you've any more details of the autoloom with manual gearbox? Just plug it in as normal and that's it?

[citizensnips]

hmm this should be interesting, my m60 auto loom looks a bit of a rats nest at the moment and the manual loom is still attached to my 530, which will be coming out some time next week once i've pulled the 2,5 one form my new e30

as far as engine mounts go i was going to have a crack at making my own as i'm a mechanical engineer and would feel slightly bad not having a crack myself, though time might get the better of me and i may buy them from e30.de

[PiLLLe]

If you make them as i did, it will take you about 2hours per side.

[bigdek]

trust me works fine with auto loom with the ecu not connected . ask oze30 he bought my unfinished running conversion

Ok, well that's good to know just in case

Do you've any more details of the autoloom with manual gearbox? Just plug it in as normal and that's it?

i used a 5spd manual from a 530. left the auto ecu off the loom .

wired the m60 plug to the e30 plug and it all worked just fine

[citizensnips]

oh it'll take me longer then two hours a side, i'm slow . Used to doing all my designing on 3d cad . May make some rough ones to get the geometry correct and then get made up to a nicer design

I assume you hung the engine and box in place and then built the mounts to suit ?

Bigdek i assume yours was facelift ? I believe physically the plugs differ but the connections are the same so i may need to use different pins but fundamentally its the same process
Ah

[suzie650]

I will confirm that the auto loom with the g/box ECU unplugged works. But if you've got EWS, you need to put an ignition live to pin 9, which is where the P/N switch would normally end.

With a pre '95 engine, you have a "starter imobilisation relay" instead, and I believe you can simply "take it out" (join the two ignition switch to starter relay together). Can't quite remember the diagrams, so don't quote me on that one.

[Jonsku]

as far as engine mounts go i was going to have a crack at making my own as i'm a mechanical engineer and would feel slightly bad not having a crack myself, though time might get the better of me and i may buy them from e30.de

One option would be to use stock mounts and make attaching points for them on the body so the engine would be bolted right on to the body, not the front crossmember.

It would make your life easier in quite many ways, first of all you'd drop the front crossmember but the engine would still be on it's place so you'll have plenty of working space.
Also you'd have more space for exhaust manifolds as well.

I've e30.de mounts and everything works fine with them also, so there're plenty of options how you can do this swap

[PiLLLe]

The one problem i see with the option stock mouts and making new mouts on the body is that you transfer all of the weight in front of the wheels and that in turn means bad handeling

But i will agree. It's a lot easier way to go.

[citizensnips]

will be making custom ones going to the sub frame. I think my friend is modelling up the prototypes on cad tomorrow.


What have people done to their engines. Mines a roughly 100k miles motor from a reputable breaker

Plan was. De grease and clean. Remove sump and de gunge.remove rocker cover , paint . Check value clearances. New plugs . Clean electrical connections and general check over. Anything else ?

Sorry for bad structure i'm posting off my phone

[citizensnips]

i've been thinking about the brakes. I used to have a small 2 seater with a master cylinder and no booster but i assume with the weight of the e30 i'll need a booster?

Therefore can anyone think of the smallest brake master and booster combo . Current smallest after very small search is 9 inches for a golf mk2 one

[Jonsku]

i've been thinking about the brakes. I used to have a small 2 seater with a master cylinder and no booster but i assume with the weight of the e30 i'll need a booster?

Therefore can anyone think of the smallest brake master and booster combo . Current smallest after very small search is 9 inches for a golf mk2 one

I recommend using booster, makes life a lot easier

You could mount the booster on to the firewall with lots of modifying (for example that mk 2 booster) or just use E34 V8 booster and make a front mount behind left hand side lights.

No way you can fit any booster on the stock place without modifying..

[Jonsku]

Plan was. De grease and clean. Remove sump and de gunge.remove rocker cover , paint . Check value clearances. New plugs . Clean electrical connections and general check over. Anything else ?

M60 has three weak points;
-Valve cover gaskets
-Oil pump fastening bolts (need to be unscrewed and loctited)
-Oil pipe O-rings on the left hand side engine mount (4 pcs)

And that's about it. Of course changing all normal parts (clutch, water pump, belt and tensioner, spark plugs, all gaskets) won't hurt you and sure makes the engine look much better and it'll last much longer without maintenance need. It's much more "friendlier" to change the things when the engine stands on the floor than when it's in the e30 engine bay..

[citizensnips]

thank you for that jonsku, the engine is on a stand at the moment so want to do as much preventative maintenance now before its tucked away int he bay and i cant get to anything, and of course have the engine looking good,

i ask about the master cylinder because i'm thinking about putting it where the battery goae and moving the battery to the boot. on my scrap e30 i cut a hole in this area and it looks like you could connect directly to the brake pedal which will give you approx 30mm of travel on the actuator rod. just trying to think what master cylinder would fit in that area. this method is just an idea at the moment

[oze30]

I will confirm that the auto loom with the g/box ECU unplugged works. But if you've got EWS, you need to put an ignition live to pin 9, which is where the P/N switch would normally end.

With a pre '95 engine, you have a "starter imobilisation relay" instead, and I believe you can simply "take it out" (join the two ignition switch to starter relay together). Can't quite remember the diagrams, so don't quote me on that one.

It works. I was using the loom with only 1 ecu (the engine one) and left the other plug as is.(Should have cut it all back, but ho hum!)

Brakes, Unless you marry the mastercylinders correctly, ie bias adjustable setup, with a big brake upgrade, yo'll have trouble do panic stops on the roads. trust me, I had this setup with E30 M3 brakes and it was puckering in a panic stop. On track however, it was unbelievably quick when you needed to and stopped really well (Considering it was a touring).

It is drivable, but make sure you get a big brake kit if you're not going with a servo assist.

[citizensnips]

i was considering the wms or is it wmp kit for the brakes

did you have the master cylinder in the brake area when you had no servo?

how about having a single outlet master cylinder in the battery well such as a wilwood, leading to a screw type brake proportion valve thenonward to the wheels.

i assume i need to find out the how much fluid volume the front large calipers need and the rears to give me an idea of the correct size of master cylinder

[keri-WMS]

i was considering the wms or is it wmp kit for the brakes

i assume i need to find out the how much fluid volume the front large calipers need and the rears to give me an idea of the correct size of master cylinder

It's "WMS" (short for WorksMotorSport!

The WMS E30 kits used to have 1.38" pistons to give a 6.6% increase in area over E30 OEM calipers, but we moved to 1.25" pistons giving a 12.5% drop in area to give a nicer pedal on the (often softish) standard m-cyl. The power is still better due to the larger disc etc - not to mention fade resisitance which is the best bit!

Hope that helps...

[citizensnips]

i was considering the wms or is it wmp kit for the brakes

i assume i need to find out the how much fluid volume the front large calipers need and the rears to give me an idea of the correct size of master cylinder

It's "WMS" (short for WorksMotorSport!

The WMS E30 kits used to have 1.38" pistons to give a 6.6% increase in area over E30 OEM calipers, but we moved to 1.25" pistons giving a 12.5% drop in area to give a nicer pedal on the (often softish) standard m-cyl. The power is still better due to the larger disc etc - not to mention fade resisitance which is the best bit!

Hope that helps...

cheers for that, if i go the no booster route should i then go for a larger master cylinder then stock to aid braking a bit,

how many kits do you have left i was in a position to get one soon but then had a 2k bill for my tvr service and mot

what do you get in the kit? and do you need to get anyhting separately?

[keri-WMS]

cheers for that, if i go the no booster route should i then go for a larger master cylinder then stock to aid braking a bit,

how many kits do you have left i was in a position to get one soon but then had a 2k bill for my tvr service and mot

what do you get in the kit? and do you need to get anyhting separately?

The servo / vs no-servo issue is a bit beyond my realms of E30/BMW parts-bin knowledge I'm afraid...

I've got five kits left as of today, with a few people "um"ing and "ah"ing over buying kits! For more info see:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=113229

PS - What TVR have you got?

[citizensnips]

i'll have to do some research into brake systems in terms of speccing what part with what

i'll have a wonder to that other thread after work

i've got a 1998 chimeara 500, its got a decat pipe and straight though exhaust so the v8 note is somewhat savage, i'm loving it other then the service costs,

[keri-WMS]

i'll have to do some research into brake systems in terms of speccing what part with what

i'll have a wonder to that other thread after work

i've got a 1998 chimeara 500, its got a decat pipe and straight though exhaust so the v8 note is somewhat savage, i'm loving it other then the service costs,

You should get on PistonHeads if you're not already there, loads of TVR nuts there. Including this one, a mad Chim race-car / WMS brakes tester of ours!

[citizensnips]

do you do a kit for the chim ? I do indeed frequent piston heads . Rather too much when i'm meant to be working


Where's the best place to get the part numbers for the random bits i need for the engine such as seals, gasket's ect , real oem ?

[keri-WMS]

do you do a kit for the chim ? I do indeed frequent piston heads . Rather too much when i'm meant to be working?

We do a Chim kit, but it's out of stock! Shall I let you know when we get more in?

Where's the best place to get the part numbers for the random bits i need for the engine such as seals, gasket's ect , real oem ?

Not sure to be honest, other than P.H. will be the place to ask - in the case of the Chim I mean...

[Jonsku]

Where's the best place to get the part numbers for the random bits i need for the engine such as seals, gasket's ect , real oem ?

www.realoem.com
www.bmwfans.info (has weights also)

[citizensnips]

right, really bone question, sorry for asking but i'm busy as hell at work and don't have time to trawl my manual

trying to remove the clutch off my 530, gearbox off, undid the series of socket head bolts and took first stage off with rotating friction plate am now at a bit of a loss. I have a flywheel plate, which looks to be somehow attached to the toothed flywheel. first flywheel has a series of holes on a small pcd and through them i can see the torques head bolts to remove the flywheel but they are too far down the holes for a normal bit to get to.

therefore does the first flywheel section need levering off or does it come off some other way. or do i just need a very long torques bit? undue the bolts and the whole lot comes off?

[Jonsku]

Yes you need long torx to unbolt the flywheel, those "sinked bolts" are on "all" double-mass BMW flywheels..

[citizensnips]

hmm i thought as much, i am now slightly paranoid i've killed my flywheel as there may have been some attempt by an unknown assailant to prise the front bit off the flywheel, the theory being that the front bit being a press fit on the rear then you undo the rear

i didnt separate the two as it didnt seem right so i stopped but it def moved forward a bit, have i killed the flywheel? i was planning on getting it off and putting it on a very flat surface and pressing it back in,

failing that how much was your fancy lightened one jonsku?

[Jonsku]

No idea how much the double-mass flywheels can take various abuse, but they are known to fail on time so if you've extra money i recommend buying new one or one-mass.

I got my flywheel made for quite cheap, but with all new clutch parts the total cost will be around 750€ anyways..

[oze30]

LONG torx bit, but the correct BMW tool has the head of the torx, then a thinner shaft so the head sits in straight. I came upon this as well, bought a torx bit skimmed it down, but it's still too big.

Jonsku, do you know what size torx it is?

[citizensnips]

do bmw do a single mass wheel or is it an aftermarket thing? , do you then need a different clutch to go with it as the depth will be less?

when i get the damn thing off i'll have to give it a coat of looking at but i suspect i'll have got it out of true

i had a look at your wiring thing jonsku, did you base it on the one on e30.de , it seems fairly straight forward, though mine behine chrome it appears not to have the number nine pin on the e30 side, think its engine speed

last but not least, do you know if the inlet manifolds and injectors ect are the same between the 3 and 4 litre, becuase i now have both manifolds one with manual loom and one with auto loom and trying to decide which to use, it'd be usefull if i could just stick the whole inlet with loom attached rather then swap the loom, with outlooking closely they look identical