latest 2.1 m42

[tim_s]

Here's the r/r printout:


Not sure I've got any pics of the flywheel, didn't go too nuts and managed to get it down to 6kg, most was taken off the rim (obviously!). It no longer has the dowel thing to lock it at TDC.

[rix313]

I had 20mm taken off of the circumference and the sections with the 'cooling' holes removed too. May have a crack at another one at some point. when you back in Brisy? would love to see the car

[Gunni]

Tim that is very nice looking.

94hp/liter basically on your own design is very very impressive

[Jon_Bmw]

Tim that is very nice looking.

94hp/liter basically on your own design is very very impressive

Without ITBs and spikey cams(I think?) it certainly is impressive.

[Turbo-Brown]

I'd have thought that ITBs would improve the idle no end if you've got lots of lift on overlap, big cams and whatnot.

Certainly is very impressive indeed, top work dude!

[tim_s]

Shucks, cheers guys! I think if I chose to mod further there's a fair bit more power in there too. The cams are 260/10.4, 224 @1mm, 1.2mm lift at TDC. So quite wussy really! I think with some proper cams and TBs it would have a good idle, make a great noise, and make a fair bit more power at the top. I'm in no rush to do anything else to the engine performance-wise though, i will ditch the AFM properly once I've got the idle sorted (in the above we just removed the AFM and ran it straight from the rubber intake elbow without my bypass pipe to the airbox because i forgot it!), it may get a 76mm-89mm pipe from airbox to the TB rather than the 67-89mm on there too to see what impact that has. If I see a cheap set of TBs I may buy them, but ideally would need to wait until insurance renewal time. The head has been port matched to the TBs (not the standard inlet), so that alone would make TBs a good idea.
Need to find some slightly larger injectors as even at 3.5bar the duty cycle is nearly maxxed out. Hoshy what are you using?

[rix313]

I've got some injectors from an Audi TT Turbo for my super charger project. Good for 225BHP. Flow rate is 279cc/min @ 3bar



Test result sheet:



IIRC Ash is using Porsche ones at a similar if not the same flow rate

[tim_s]

26.5lb/hr is a lot more than factory! think i want something a bit smaller than that... will consult my spreadsheet of flowrates later! Want something cheap too...

[appletree]

the rover cream top ones i have would be good for you tim, there cheep and redily avaible, can get you the part number if you want it, they are running 80% cycle at 4 bar on mine.

Tim have you done the m20 flywheel mod to yours? i looking for some good info on parts required.

[tim_s]

sweet, part no would be v helpful matt
Nope, just m4x single mass flywheel in mine, bigger clutch is prob an idea on your beast I'd imagine Hear you saw hoshy the other wk, if you're ever around the city again give me a buzz and we can catch up.

[appletree]

Will do mate, ill get the number thursday when im back off site, the were from a 1.4 k-series rover 200 of all things. Think i might have even posted the part number i my old thread. Theres deffinatly a pic on there.

[ShepsEvo3]

the were from a 1.4 k-series rover 200 of all things.

Matt, are they the same impedance as the standard Bosch injectors?

[appletree]

Guess so, dave walker specd them for me, think there low imp to run on the emerald although i did try them on the motronic ecu to start with.

There the same dimensions as the standard ones though.

[tim_s]

ah crumbs, good point there paul! I'm not sure whether I've actually got the low imp circuit wired in in megasquirt, and if i change to the moronic/uni-q setup i'd undoubtedly be screwed. I'll investigate!!

[ShepsEvo3]

Guess so, dave walker specd them for me, think there low imp to run on the emerald although i did try them on the motronic ecu to start with.

There the same dimensions as the standard ones though.

Matt, could you check the resistance of your Rover injectors? If they are the same as the M42 ones, then they will be fine

[appletree]

Can do ya, how would i do that? If i get chance ill do it tomorrow or friday.

[ShepsEvo3]

Can do ya, how would i do that? If i get chance ill do it tomorrow or friday.

Just put a multi-meter across the two injector terminals. Obviously disconnect the injector wiring first lol. Make sure the you set the multimeter to something like 20ohms, that should be high enough so it will measure.

Paul.

[tim_s]

thanks matt/paul

[appletree]

Right with the metre set to ohms (200) i get 0.01 across my leads and from one injector pin to the other 16.01ohm this sound about right?

Part number

0 280 150 749

other numbers on the injectors are 572 and 957 (not next to each other)

Cream in colour


From the Emerald site
Early injectors use low-resistance coil windings - typically 3 Ohms. Later injectors (now the majority or production injectors) use higher resistance - typically 15/16 Ohms. If a low-resistance injector is used with the Emerald ECU then a power resistor must be put in the earth line to the ECU.

This applies to many of the available aftermarket ECUs. If needed we can supply them on request when you order a system.

hope that helps.

[ShepsEvo3]

Right with the metre set to ohms (200) i get 0.01 across my leads and from one injector pin to the other 16.01ohm this sound about right?

That sounds about right... I will check what a standard IS one is tomorrow. To be fair, I totally forgot about this untill now.

[appletree]

Just measured an old old IS one 15.5ohms so guess they will be fine

standard part number is 0280150714 just for referance

[hoshy]

For what it's worth MS can control low impedance injectors with PWM current limiting

The idea is that the low impedance gives a high initial in-rush of current to open the solenoid as fast as possible then a holding current keeps it open for the duration of injection. This is supposed to improve the metering accuracy. Going by the MS websites - in reality it makes little difference.

[ShepsEvo3]

Just measured an old old IS one 15.5ohms so guess they will be fine

standard part number is 0280150714 just for referance

Yes, that looks ok then

[tim_s]

Thanks Matt! Really appreciate you taking the time to do that. Just looked on my injector spreadsheet and get 20.75 lb/hr for the rover 749 injectors against the 20.35lb/hr for the standard injectors (both at 3 bar). Might try for something just a tad larger I'm thinking, as I'm not sure how much that will bring down my duty cycle... How much effect did it have on yours?

[appletree]

Dont realy know as dave walker told me they would be good for 200bhp so i put them in streight off, i ran them at 3.5 or 4 bar though. No probs though.

[ShepsEvo3]

Thanks Matt! Really appreciate you taking the time to do that. Just looked on my injector spreadsheet and get 20.75 lb/hr for the rover 749 injectors against the 20.35lb/hr for the standard injectors (both at 3 bar). Might try for something just a tad larger I'm thinking, as I'm not sure how much that will bring down my duty cycle... How much effect did it have on yours?

Tim, could you not use these injectors and up the fuel pressure upto 3.5-4 bar? Although it's not the ultimate cure, it will bring the duty cycle down to a safer level with not too high a pressure.
What about the M3 sport evo or Volvo 740 turbo injectors? 330cc and I have a set of them in my tool box if your interested in them.

The Sport Evo injectors are good for 270bhp with 3.5bar (proven )

[tim_s]

hiya Paul,
I'm running 3.5bar already, guess I could go up to 4bar... 1.8T is 4 bar, there's a 4 bar FPR on ebay at the mo that would drop in. There's also some cheap rover creams on ebay that I might buy and give a go, but think they'll make f all difference if i'm honest! Si's also got some M3 evo injectors that i'll nick and check out, although iirc the evo runs 5bar FP so they might not be suitable, will get their part no and work out flowrate.

Basically I think standard are 214cc at 3 bar
Rovers are 220cc
some 1.8Ts are 240cc

As I'm at 3.5 bar I'm guessing that means:
current 250cc
Rovers 257cc
1.8T 280

At 4 bar
Standard 285cc
Rovers 293cc
1.8T 320cc

iirc i was at past 90% duty cycle and i want to bring it back down to 80%.

So 250 x .92 (will use 92% as a guess, will confirm later!) = 230


230 / .8 = 290

So actually i want somewhere around 300cc/min injectors! Sounds a bit excessive...

those 740 turbo injectors at 330cc still sound a touch on the large side i'm thinking, but maybe not as much as I initially thought!

[ShepsEvo3]

those 740 turbo injectors at 330cc still sound a touch on the large side i'm thinking

One solution to that Tim..... add BOOST

The Sport Evo ones are 300cc too and run at 3.5bar if I remember right?

[tim_s]

lol, have enough trouble getting this engine running right, without adding a tubby! 300cc would be just about ok i reckon, 330cc is a bit too much I think, will be running under 70% max duty cycle then. mb 4 bar on the standard injectors is the answer after all, either that or something like the 1.8T injectors at 3.5bar, but I can't find any dirt cheap 1.8T injectors at the mo. Don't really like the idea of running the standard pump at 4 bar, not sure whether it'd be an issue or not.

[hoshy]

I can't vouch for the reliability but here's Gunni's take on matters:

"Stock E30 pumps can do 5bar and well above 300hp flow wise"

[ShepsEvo3]

I've seen a few cars, not just E30's, with fuel pressure wound upto 5bar. Although the standard pump will supply that pressure, I have genuinely known a few pumps to weaken and loose power. So, although ok for a short term "get you out of trouble" period, I would not want to rely on it long term.

Also another thing to think about is the higher the fuel pressure, the slower the injector can open and the faster it closes. So you can get to a point where you actually get less fuel supplied at high pressure then with less pressure... but thats got to be pretty extreme.

Just my 2 pennies on what I have found over the years.

[Gunni]

Why the issues with running larger then needed injectors?

I can´t see a problem with running max power at any duty cycle below 80% unless you just can´t the the thing to Idle.

Higher rail pressure "should" give better amomzation. But only if the injector flow design allows it. Most of them do. Why not get S50B32 injectors and FPR? That´s designed to run at 5bar´s and does
Easily provide 54hp per cyl?

[tim_s]

yeah the s50b32 injectors I've pinched off a mate should be at my brother's place now gunni, I'll have a go at the weekend if I get some time. I've checked the part no and at 3.5bar they should be sufficient as long as the data I have is correct Oversize injectors would be ok, I just can't see this engine (if NA) ever making enough power to justify 330cc injectors so ideally I would prefer correctly sized ones. Idle pw would probably remain acceptable. potentially there are some recon'd audi S2 injectors I know of that i may use as a backup plan.

[Gunni]

There really isn´t all that much to gain from "properly sized" injectors unless your just absolutely require the resolution ,
that means emissions and afr to keep up with the manufacturers requirements.

[wally63]

where did you get 87 mm head gasket cfrom what did it cost wally 63