Carb 316 M10 replaced by a M20 2.0 litre??

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:45 pm

Hi there,
Great to be back - zone looks brilliant!!
Bit of a quandry and i'd love some advice - I want a wee bit more HP for my M30 316 but don't know the best options - As I see it I have 2 available to me if I want to keep the car as original/untampered with as possible (i.e. not have to change the suspension/brakes etc):
1) Modify the current 54k M10 engine which seems to be very expensive - I have been quoted £1000 from Fritszbits to get an extra 20-30 hp. This option is bittersweet as its a lot of money, but it means that I keep the car as original as possible with the M10 still intact.
Or
2) Buy a 2 litre M20 engine and fit it. Suspect I can get one for £100 ish and pay around £200-400 to get it cleaned, and fitted with all new ancillary parts etc.

What do you all think??

If you think I should go for option two (and this is where i'm headed given it's half the price for more hp) what should I be looking for in the M20 i.e. what parts do I need to come with the engine. I'm really hoping that I can use the majority of the M10 parts and only have to replace the actual lump, but as I know feck all about mechanics I'm not sure.

Thoughts please??!!

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:01 pm

personally i would be going for an m20, but the b25 instead of the b20..ive had all the engines (bar s14

) and i found the b20 to give the same performance as the 318 i had, but returned a similar mpg to the b25..difference in insurance is only about £30 a year for me

but if fitting either of the m20s you will need..engine, gearbox,diff,51mm strutts up front,loom,ecu,radiator,header tank,coil,oil cooler fittings..

dont think i,ve missed anything there mate

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:08 pm

If your going to fit the M20 as gra said fit the M20B25 and you will need everything from looms, ecu to alternators, starters, gearboxs, propshafts, G/shift parts and a load of other things... or you could go turbo with stand alone ecu like megasquirt. Loads of room in the engine bay with an M10 there

If I still had my first E30 (M10 4 years ago) I would go down this route as the M10 is bulletproof.

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:13 pm

Sh*t looks like its the expensive option............Thanks for the info!

Fritszbits have a custom made 4 branch manifold, an injection head/cam/gaskets and various other wee bits and pieces that should enable me to get the M10 from 90hp to 120hp for £1000 incl labour whilst keeping it M10 and the rest of the car as close to original as possible (I also like the bullet-proof and retro aspect of the engine).

Like the look of adding 45 twin webers in the future too for an extra 5-10hp.

If there are any M10 experts out there, let me know your thoughts, ideas etc!

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:23 pm

Seeing as M10s have been around for about a million years there are many tried and tested routes to power. 200bhp NA M10s are not uncommon, but cheap? Hell no.

A 2 litre bottom end would be where I'd start. You could stick on MS and run throttle bodies? All the joys of carbs without the driveability issues. Couple this to a decent 4 branch, some headwork and a hot cam and you're cooking on gas!

Or you could go turbo

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:27 pm

there is an m10 2.0 in the for sale section at the moment

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:28 pm

its not really the expensive option al mate, jbh could probably source and fit all that for close to half the £1000 fritz has quoted..and you would be looking at a significantly larger bhp boost

although a well sorted m10 is/would be alot of fun

good luck and keep us all posted

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:33 pm

Alex wrote:there is an m10 2.0 in the for sale section at the moment

Looks fooking lovely too

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:42 pm

GrindCulture wrote:
Alex wrote:there is an m10 2.0 in the for sale section at the moment
Looks fooking lovely too

if i had my old chromie i would have put something like than in along with twin 40s or one of these

http://www.racetep.com/weber/0245single.html

Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:01 pm

Swap an M10 for a 2 litre boat anchor!!

You should be banned for a week for thinking such wrongness!!

Andyboy reckons a 2 litre ford carb bolts straight on and does it a world of good

Post Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:39 pm

Assuming that Fritzsbits price includes fitting,£1000 for 30bhp is good value for money.Buying a s/h M20 and all the bits to make it work properly and have someone fit it for you will not work out any cheaper,and retaining the M10 engine will maintain your car's value,sticking a different engine in will make it worth only the sum of it's parts.

Post Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:15 pm

I've come to that conclusion daimlerman!
Fritszbits will be getting a call!
4 pot rightness here i come!

Think I'll have to get the twin weber 45's put in too!!

Post Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:58 pm

ChemicalAl wrote:I've come to that conclusion daimlerman!
Fritszbits will be getting a call!
4 pot rightness here i come!

Think I'll have to get the twin weber 45's put in too!!

I have often read about the gurgle that multiple Webers make,but only once witnessed it for myself.I was at a classic car meet with my Daimler and another enthusiast turned up in a DB5 restored to a condition fit to die for,when we twisted his arm he popped the bonnet and fired the thing up,a memory I will treasure!

Post Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:40 pm

Hmm M10's and performance. best get the e21 4 pot man on the case!

Fritz have a 2L M10 out of an E21 so far as I know, I was going to buy it a year or so ago, but have had the one out of the for sale section. Fritz wanted £350

I have a 1.8L M10 in one of my e21 316's. It produces 109bhp on a standard cam with a 32/36 weber. Brand new carb off fastroadcars on ebay £265 plus the dyno tune up when I had it on.

My other 316 is currently with this guy http://www.ricwood.com having the engine as seen here http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=120019 fitted, along with a 284 catcams cam, S14 throttle bodies via an adaptor of some sort (TBC), and probably a DTA ECU. Should be tasty, but I can't tell you the price as I am too scared to ask (he's also finishing the track car build up). I got the cam cheap for £150 off a mate.

I have the fritz manifold, and it did nothing for my dyno chart - possibly because the e21 head has small ports and valves which the larger ports of the manifold don't work well with. Your carby e30 motor will have the same ports - make sure Fritz are doing you the right manifold.

So there are lots of options. The last one is particularly interesting for an e30 owner. I have an e30 318i M10 engine with inlet injectors etc etc, most of the loom and an OEM ECU. Shouldn't be too hard to swap to a higher compression fuel injected motor which will be nicer than your current carby job. You can buy something like that for a few hundred. PM me if you are interested in mine. It also has larger valves as on the 2L engines, and larger zorst ports so you could still have a shiny Fritz manifold if you wanted.

So think about head, valve size, zorst ports, cam, intake/fuel before you spend the £350 odd on fritz manifold and the rest.

Jim

Post Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:51 pm

Should also say 318i M10 plus a cam fitted by your local specialist would be less than Fritz is quoting, especially given that they are far away! It should give a similar power upgrade, and you would still have further options with exhaust, throttle body conversions and of course aftermarket ECU's such as the world famous megasquirt which flappysocks on here will build into an OEM case for true plug and playness! You could even do porting etc etc.

Disclaimer - there are other sources of M10 engines than my spare one. Quite sure others on here can locate one.

Post Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:49 pm

DanThe wrote:Swap an M10 for a 2 litre boat anchor!!

You should be banned for a week for thinking such wrongness!!

Andyboy reckons a 2 litre ford carb bolts straight on and does it a world of good

Sorry to revive an old thread guys, but does anyone have any info on which 2l ford carb will fit?

Post Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:55 pm

It's a weber DMTL that you want, think a DGAV would work too. I am selling my carb collection off, have one 32/34 DMTL and another which I will try to ID later. Will post all the bits in the for sale section eventually!

Post Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:08 pm

drjim wrote:It's a weber DMTL that you want, think a DGAV would work too. I am selling my carb collection off, have one 32/34 DMTL and another which I will try to ID later. Will post all the bits in the for sale section eventually!

Is that the ones fitted to the fiesta xr2's?

Do you know if the linkages need modifying, i take it they are manual choke?