Another e30 V8 (m62 b35 tu) project

[PiLLLe]

Well, this is my story. I bought an empty shell wich had all the rusty spots removed/replaced with new metal sheets. Those spots were like rear wheel arches, front floor pans etc...
I started this project with bodywork and somewhere allong i screwed it up. Don't know why, but everywhere where i used filler it cracked. So i left the bodywork and went on to work on engine.
This is how car looks like now



First i had to work out where to place the engine. After some searching on the net (mostly from this forum and e30.de) i decided how far from firewall will it sit. Then i choped original engine mout (the one with the oil lines) so it wont get in my way when i start working on the manifolds. To make mounts i used 5mm thick steel plates and to simulate rubber mouts i used wooden blocks (coz' it doesnt smell so bad when you weld near it )
So after a couple of hours i had the mounts made and they look like this






After that was done, i went on with the brake assembly. I used e32 730V8 brake booster and the original mout. I chopped couple of centimeters from it, coz' it was to high, and the hood wouldn't fit.
Brake booster isnt a bitch to fit in at all, you just need to make some kind of bracket to hold it, and chop the original supporting bracket, so you can weld it to wheel arch(or is it strut tower dunno how you call it). The bitch to make is the linkage. I'we done hours of thinking and trying to come up with some sort of linkage, but then i used most of the original bmw parts and i ended up with this






And some pics of finished assebly withf few milimeters of clearance



Somewhere in between i allso moved the alternator on the other side of the engine. That took me i think an hour or two at most, coz' it realy isn't so rocket science. You just need a spacer, and some sort of mout so it's held at two points. I've tryed to move it but it stays fix, and i don't expect any problems in future.



Well that'll be all for now. At this moment i'm working on exhaust manifolds, which are a real bitch to make. If you don't have proper it's that much harder I wish i had bought myself a band saw coz' cutting with angle grinder is a nightmare
The drivers side is allmost finished, and by tommorow hopefully boths sides will be done.
Then i'll probably move to wiring. I've gotta figure it out somehow, or i'll end up using whole e39 wiring and abs

Updates will follow ;) cheers ;)

p.s i hope my english isn't so bad, and you can understand what i'm saying

[oze30]

Nice.

Few questions though;

Why did you move the alternator?
Why is the linkage bent? Won't that flex when you hit the pedal?
Where are you going to mount the oil fllter housing?

[PiLLLe]

I moved the alternator because i couldn't fit the engine in the middle of a car. It was hitting the chasy. (i didn't use spacers between subframe and chasy maby that's why i had problems)
The linkage is bent because it was easyer to make it that way. I will weld on some supporting bars, but i'we tryed it allready and it flexes for couple of mm max. Support bars will hopefull reduce it to zero, and prevent metal fatigue
Oil filter housing will be mounted on the engine(same spot where m60 has it). I made mount and forgot to take pic
Will do that tomorrow ;)

[FormerMember]

Hey, great to see pictures of your project also!

The exhaust manifolds are b**ch to make but they're doable, not so bad job after all
Where're you going to mount ABS pump and how're you going to route the brakepipes?
That brakelinkage looks a bit unsafe, but hopefully it works as it should.

Swapping the alternator to other side is a good idea, i just banged the body a bit to make the alternator and oil-return-line some space.

When you find electronic schemas for M62, please post a link. I need them also for one project.. ;)

[PiLLLe]

Well here are some updates, or should i say half of an update

I'we allmost finished the drivers side manifold, and i was realy happy until i spoted a problem. When i finished manifold i noticed i had stabilazer undone, so i screwed it back on, tryed to fit the manifold, and guess what. Can't do it. So tommorow i'll have to sort that out. Luckly i didn't weld it completly it's just tacked.
But belive it or not, i can mout and dissmount the manifold, with engine in the car.And all of the nuts are accessibe, some from top, some from bottom side.
When making it, i tryed to have as less curves as possible, but some just can't be avoided. Allso i tryed to keep the insides of the manifold, clean as possible. But notice, this si my first ever manifold. The welder is brand new, so i'm not so familiure with it. (oh yes and the c2 tank is acctualy a fire extinguisher and when welding long time, it freezez and weld begins to burn )
Pics



Oh yes, as promissed pics of oil filter mount



@Jonsku
About abs... i'm still not sure where to put it, i'll know better when i instal e39 wiring loom, but that wont happen if i find any wiring diagrams, coz for now i'm aiming to use e30 wiring loom (i don't have a lot of time left to mess arround with the car) If i do mount it, the brake lines will be bitch to bend, but it's doable.
Hm about the brakelinkage. For now it looks to be ok. But i will have to wait until i connect the brake lines and put some oil in it.

[FormerMember]

I'we allmost finished the drivers side manifold, and i was realy happy until i spoted a problem. When i finished manifold i noticed i had stabilazer undone, so i screwed it back on, tryed to fit the manifold, and guess what. Can't do it. So tommorow i'll have to sort that out. Luckly i didn't weld it completly it's just tacked.
But belive it or not, i can mout and dissmount the manifold, with engine in the car.And all of the nuts are accessibe, some from top, some from bottom side.

That manifold looks really, really good How much clearance do you have to the steering shaft?

i'm still not sure where to put it, i'll know better when i instal e39 wiring loom, but that wont happen if i find any wiring diagrams, coz for now i'm aiming to use e30 wiring loom

Ummm.. so you're going to use E30 engine loom? That just won't work, or did i understand correctly?
Anyway, it shoudn't be that hard to find M62 wiring schemes, let me check if i can find them for you..

[zimmer-320i]

think he means joining the e30 loom to that one but in any case the loom for the m20 should of gone outt he window with the engine along with the ecu!!

id be suprized if it runs on a e30 loom unless there going to figure out some clever way of spliting say no1 to go to no6 cylinder as they would spark at the same time and not sure confused me a bit

[PiLLLe]

Ther's a lot of clearance to the shaft. I think there's allmost 2cm. Will take a pic tomorow when i fix that problem with the bottom of the manifold, and to be honest, i like yours more

As for the electrics. You obviousl got me wrong Engine loom stays as it is. No modifications. But to connect it to e30 wiring i need wiring diagrams for m62tu which i can't find. I've spent hours looking at WDS and i couln't find any usefull stuff(or maby it's same shit m62 m62tu coz there were no tu wiring diagrams)
So i might end up using e39 wiring. Since i allready have it, i could use it. It would be an easy job. Just connecting conectors, battery and ground wires.

[FormerMember]

As for the electrics. You obviousl got me wrong Engine loom stays as it is. No modifications. But to connect it to e30 wiring i need wiring diagrams for m62tu which i can't find. I've spent hours looking at WDS and i couln't find any usefull stuff(or maby it's same shit m62 m62tu coz there were no tu wiring diagrams)
So i might end up using e39 wiring. Since i allready have it, i could use it. It would be an easy job. Just connecting conectors, battery and ground wires.

Yes, that'd be one option also but then the instrument-cluster etc would be quite hard to wire so not good

I'll post my E30-M60 wiring writeup here in the evening, check your X20 connector (the big one which connects engine to the body) if there're same kind of wires so it could help a bit.

[PiLLLe]

Well another day allmost wasted. Allmost notthing got done.
I managed to finish the drivers side manifold, for now it stays 90% finished. Thing that i need to figure it out, is how i'm going to do the exhaust, will it bi fixed or will i some sort of flexible hose.
And i started on the passanger side manifold, it looked like an easy job, but as i see that wont be the case
So here are some pics of the drivers side manifold



There's a lots of clearance, and i'm a happy man

Oh yes and the pic of m62 connectors

[FormerMember]

Great, and as you noticed there's not easy things in this kind of swap

I did the exhaust quite hard-mounted (bolted on gearbox also), back box hangs on stiff rubber but had to make it as close to body as possible to avoid it hitting the body and i want to be able to drive lowww

Anyway, i did a small writeup on E30-M60 wiring, check if you've same kind of wires on M62.

Link

[PiLLLe]

I think i'll go that way too. Bolt it to the gearbox and use stiff rubber coz' basicly it's not going to move a lot. (engine
mounts are quite hard)

Tnx for the writeup. I'll take some time and see if there are any similaritys in the wirinig.

[oze30]

You could mount the ABS pump UNDER the abs tray? Can't remember who did this, someone will know.

[old_skool]

You could mount the ABS pump UNDER the abs tray? Can't remember who did this, someone will know.

HenryM3

[FormerMember]

Yes, or use one from different body. Personally i wouldn't put the ABS pump too near to wheels / ground, too much sand etc flying around there..

[FormerMember]

Hey, i found WDS (wiring diagram system) on the internet today, here's the link.

Dunno how long it'll be online so save / print the M62 schemas quickly ;)

[PiLLLe]

Tnx i do have found it on mininova.org
But diagrams are not the ones i'm familiar with.

Though i'm waiting for some wiring plans for e36 V8 swap, and i can work from there

But sadly i got no new updates for you, coz if you're in construciton business sometimes you just have to work too long and dont feel like doing anything else at the end of the day. But manifolds are allmost done, let's say 90%. And e39 wiring is in the car, so sometime this week i'll do the ews sinc with ecu (they are not form the same car so that is needed) and i'll try to crank it to see if it will fire up

[suzie650]

Be careful about the ARB/manifold clearence issue:
I thought I got it right first time by checking it with the ARB on... what I forgot is that once you get the car on its wheels, to ARB rotates upwards . Do not make the same mistake!

Also, as I was in a big (in the end useless) hurry, I got the middle section of the exhaust done by guys of the trade , and they didn't bother with exhaust fixings... (told me it didn't need it)
So it hangs off the heads, the big rubber on the rear crossmember and the two backbox hangers. I was a bit doubious at first, but it seems to hold more than enough - for now. what are your views on that?

[FormerMember]

Pille; so you're going with E39 body electrics, that's definitely not the way i would have gone with but i hope you get it working properly

Be careful about the ARB/manifold clearence issue:
I thought I got it right first time by checking it with the ARB on... what I forgot is that once you get the car on its wheels, to ARB rotates upwards . Do not make the same mistake!

And ARB stands for... ?

So it hangs off the heads, the big rubber on the rear crossmember and the two backbox hangers. I was a bit doubious at first, but it seems to hold more than enough - for now. what are your views on that?

I would make a hard fixing on to gearbox also, so it reduces the load to cylinder head which is always bad. It also allows you to make the exhaus pipes go nearer the bottom in the front section of the car which is always good for low cars

[PiLLLe]

Pille; so you're going with E39 body electrics, that's definitely not the way i would have gone with but i hope you get it working properly

For the time being it'll stay as it is It will serv only for dry run, to se if engine is still as it should be in good working order. But still looking for how to wire it up to e30 bodyelectrics.

Btw when you allready mentioned exhaust, what's the best way to do he X pipe (at what angle it should be) or is it allso a good idea to run seperate pipes? (i'm using only one muffler and it's probably going to be sometnih out of e36 i like the M-ones )

[Frenchguy]

And ARB stands for... ?

anti-roll bar

[FormerMember]

Btw when you allready mentioned exhaust, what's the best way to do he X pipe (at what angle it should be) or is it allso a good idea to run seperate pipes? (i'm using only one muffler and it's probably going to be sometnih out of e36 i like the M-ones )

There're quite a lot of different calculation-forms on the internet about dimensioning X-pipe, but usually it's located after transmission and there's the best place for that also.

Just put x-pipe in the google image search - thing and you'll find plenty of examples

I did it in about 45 deg angle, but i think smaller angle would be better and easier to fit in there.

In my opinion it doesn't really matter in which particular angle and where do you put the x-pipe, because in doesn't really affect your power curve in these kind of stock engines.

You definitely need to put x-pipe in there, to make the engine sound like proper BMW V8

[oze30]

Custom exhaust, H pipe. Needs the manifolds doing, but it's not alive anymore.. So Ho hum!

[monkey]

[quote="Jonsku"]Yes, or use one from different body. Personally i wouldn't put the ABS pump too near to wheels / ground, too much sand etc flying around there..

is that a bosch 5.3 unit from a vw/audi ? as i have one i was thinking of using if so did it work with the std e30 wheel speed sensors

[suzie650]

Who hasn't already dreamed of a bosh motorsport ABS?

I think (once again, I've been pen scraping instead of mechanicing for month now, so the memory isn't that clear anymore) that the later bosch abs use hall sensors on the wheels while the e30 system uses inductive ones. But I wouldn't have thought that sensors would be a problem if you're already going through the extend of changing ABS's. The trigger wheels and number of teeth needed might be more annoying to solve, as I seem to remember that they are integral to the hub/bearing assembly.

On the exhaust side of things, the left and right banks don't join before the middle silencer on an m60'ed e34, and as I didn't open the said silencer, I don't even know whether they join in there like an x-pipe or whether they run separate all the way to the backbox or even separate all the way. Perhaps someone could shed some light on this, but it seems to me that these engines run happily with no x/y pipes, or at least with them quite far back in the system.

[oze30]

ABS rings can be removed with heat from memory. The sound is better with a cross pipe, it also raises the torque figures vs non cross pipe. (Sounds better too!)

[PiLLLe]

The goal now is to get somebody to syncronise the EWS with ECU (since they are not from the same car) and then i'll see what am i going to do with the wiring.
If i use e39 body wiring i will have to use the abs and that wont be a problem unless if the e39 abs rings are to big to fit into e30 hub. The front ones are bigger issue than the back ones, since i can make back ones to fit on to the diff. With that sorted there is no need to do any modifications to the wiring, since abs can be mounted where battery used to be. So in theory car will think it's e39

As for the exhaust. I found an original e39 xpipe. It's bit big, but i have to talk to the owner of the donor car, if he's going to use that bit of the exhaust if not, i'm mounting it to the car and for the back muffler i'm going to use something like those JDM ones i want it to be loud, at least for a while

But sadly no updates for now. Had a fight with my old man, so the car is out of the garage for the time being

[FormerMember]

So how is it going with the project?

I had a look at M62 wiring today, seems it's quite different compared to M60 wiring but with some time, schematics and beer it's certainly doable

[PiLLLe]

The project is on hold at the moment
Temporary i have too much work with my business, and i'm waiting for some "spare" money i've done some calculations and i need roughly arround 2k€ to finish it

The car is ready for paint, small bits and ends to tie up, and it has to be done till end of may, because drift season starts here, and i'm planing to compete this season

I've bought some racing/drift spec suspension from my friend (eddy allson a forum member), done some measurements to driveshaft..... etc etc

As for the wiring, i've allso looked at the wds, found some usefull stuff, so one day when i find some spare time, after the car is painted i'll try to wire it up there is a slight possibility i get a m60 4litre engine in exchange for this m62, so i'll just have to wait until the car is painted and then i will see what am i going to do

Btw, i've seen in your thread that you've done some welding in the engine compartment what did you weld? reinforcments?

[FormerMember]

Great, there's still plenty of time till summer

I still have to reinforce front beam, but in engine compartment i've welded some attaching points to various things (air box, windshield wiper canister), but mainly for brakes (brake booster, ABS pump).

This is quite helpful when wirin M60 to E30.

[oze30]

This is how I plumbed my bottles in, but I'm not using the servo, so you could put it all on the RHS.

[PiLLLe]

So this is it things started to move a bit, the car is painted (all done by me), body wiring is in (i will be using stock/original e30 body wiring), some moldings on the dors are allso fitted, more pics to follow

I just made couple of them 2 hours after the car was painted







There might be slight change arround the engine i found a 4.4L one with a 6 speed trany so i'll have to decide which one goes in

[oze30]

No brainer:

4.4 with 6 speed. Gives you a better diff choice. Standard 325 ratios 3.64/3.73 work well with this setup.

[FormerMember]

Good that it's all starting to go well again.

Those pictures are really, really small (or is there something wrong with my settings ..? )


M62B44 + 6 speed box is really, really good choice

[suzie650]

if you get the 6 speed, don't listen to people telling you it won't go un as one unit - It does! Jack the front high enough and remove the "heater blower plate thingy on the bulkhead", and it'll drop in nicely.
(still f*** tight, but the 6 speed is heavy, and probably more of a pig to do separate unless you've got proper transmission dollies)