LPG Conversion

[philglasgow]

Hi

At present ive got a 520 i fitted with a single point lpg system, it is my intention to remove it and fit it to my 318 tourer, whilst its a bit slow in the 520 i reckon it would be a bit better in the tourer and at 33.p a litre its definately worth looking into .

Im looking for advice on this or someone local to me thats willing to help out/fit it for me ( they would obviously be paid for this ) as I dont have the money to pay for a new system install.

Im reasonably mechanically competant but obviously its not as straight forward as I think.


Can anyone help?

Im in Glasgow

[Brianmoooore]

I'm in Devon, so I don't think we'll be meeting up, but it is quite straightformard really.
Everything should transfer straight over except possibly the mixer (the bit that actually feeds the gas into the engine).
Just noticed it says 520i, not 320i, but as long as it's a M20 520, this shouldn't make much difference. Probably best to buy new 6mm plastic covered pipe to feed from back to front.
There are a few regulations to comply with, and these are contained in the LPGA's COP22. Mainly common sense, although it specifies a few clearances.
Is your 520 system computer controlled (lambda sensor in exhaust and electric valve in the vapour line, or does it just have a screw tap thingy in the vapour line?

[philglasgow]

I know the 520 is an m40 lamda engine , the system has had a couple of backfires and did in 2 airflow meters so i didnt bother replacing it , but is my understanding( although i could be wrong ) that the air flow and lamda would have no effect on a single point system so the car is in default ecu modeand to me when the maf was connected made no difference to the running whilst on gas.

Im seriously considering fitting it but a little unsure ( or maybe a big bit unsure) on exactly how its done .

Ps there is a volume control valve going between the vapouriser and the air intake , i take it this adjusts the flow of gas into air intake.

Any help or advice would be most welcome.


Phil

[TOURINGDADDY]

As Brianmooore said above it really is common sence but i would certainly buy new pipe work & olives to do the job properly. i would offer my help but i live on the south coast (portsmouth)

[philglasgow]

thanks guys

[Brianmoooore]

To the best of my knowledge the 520 never had a M40 engine. It had a M20 or M50.
M50 should never be fitted with a single point venturi system, as it has a plastic inlet manifold, and the M20 should have been fitted with a "catflap" backfire valve and pressure release valve to protect the airflow meter.
I would stromgly recommend upgrading the system to incorporate a Millenium or Leonardo ECU and control valve.

[philglasgow]

My mistake it is an m50 engine, I am aware that this system is not ideal for the car apart from ocassionally blowing the breather off the idle control valve ( takes 2 minutes to put back on) and unfortunately blowing the afm when trying to accelerate too quick ,ive had no real problems but as am selling it there would be no point in spending money on it.


Thanks




Phil

[Brianmoooore]

So someone fitted a first generation LPG system to a M50 engine?
The ongoing legal situation following a blowback that kills the engine in the third lane of a busy motorway and causes a pile up would be interesting to say the least!
However, this system will be OK for your (M40) 1.8 tourer, especially with the upgrade I mention above.
Don't forget that any pipework and filler pbits that are inside the car have to be enclosed and vented by ducts to the outside.
On a tourer, a filler assembly will fit very neatly right behind the petrol filler in place of the locking solenoid, with its back end braced to the wheelarch flange. It will all nearly fit behind the plastic panel in the right hand storage compartment.
Fit the filter/solenoid valve and vapouriser on the left hand inner wing, (plenty of room on a 318), and fit a plate mixer inside the top of the airfilter box, bolted directly to the AFM, with the gas pipe spigot fed through a hole cut in the airbox.

[philglasgow]

So someone fitted a first generation LPG system to a M50 engine?
The ongoing legal situation following a blowback that kills the engine in the third lane of a busy motorway and causes a pile up would be interesting to say the least!
However, this system will be OK for your (M40) 1.8 tourer, especially with the upgrade I mention above.
Don't forget that any pipework and filler pbits that are inside the car have to be enclosed and vented by ducts to the outside.
On a tourer, a filler assembly will fit very neatly right behind the petrol filler in place of the locking solenoid, with its back end braced to the wheelarch flange. It will all nearly fit behind the plastic panel in the right hand storage compartment.
Fit the filter/solenoid valve and vapouriser on the left hand inner wing, (plenty of room on a 318), and fit a plate mixer inside the top of the airfilter box, bolted directly to the AFM, with the gas pipe spigot fed through a hole cut in the airbox.

Brian

this was fitted around 4 years ago , and i have spoken to all the local installers and none of them recommend fiting i to the tourer or want to touch it with a barge pole , so i will take what u have said on board , but
Im now unsure , due to my lack of practical knowledge on this subject

I dont suppose u would consider a bit of site seeing in Glasgow , all expenses paid and some financial remuneration thrown in lol


Phil

[Brianmoooore]

Don't under estimate your abilities. If you feel competant enough to change a clutch or cam belt, then you can fit a gas kit, especially with help from a few of us on here.
The local installers would probably love to sell you a new injecction set up, but although this kit should never have been fitted to the M50, it will suit the M40 fine., especially if you add the ECU etc.
Is the tank you have suitable for the tourer? Mine has a 630mm X 225mm torroidal in the spare wheel well, and doesn't encroach on the loadspace at all.

[philglasgow]

the 520 has a 100 litre cylinder so whilst it may fit it would take up the already sparce boot space,
Im slowly talking my mate round ( he is a great mechanic but has no experience whatsoever of gas ) like i said to,him its all basic drilling holes running pipes etc, its the electrical wiring im unsure of for example how does the switch know not to switch over to gas till the revs hit 2.4 k revs etc.

Brian , Ive found a couple of sites were guys have listed how they did their conversions, rover sterling/seat alhambra , ford scorpio etc and they all seem to have managed.

Like u said most installers want to get loads of cash from me and as the system is more suited to the m40 engine so would be ok to fit, if i take pics and figure out how to post them , would u advise on anything im unsure of?

What engine is in your tourer and what mpg do you manage?


Thanks


Phil

[Brianmoooore]

Pity about the size of the tank. It'll give you one hell of a range, but there won't be a lot of loadspace left. If you do use it, then it has to be bolted down to withstand 30g, IIRC.
The electrical wiring is simple enough. Just power feed to the controller of course, feeds to the three gas solenoids, a connection from the ignition coil (so that the controller can tell if the engine is running or not, and if not, shut off the gas) and a relay to connect into the common power feed to the petrol injectors. I can help you with all that when the time comes.
My tourer is a M20 325, and I get about 26 MPG on gas, about 20% less than on petrol.
Interesting point about LPG is that consumption is less adversley affected by "enthusiastic" driving (wot, me, officer?) than petrol.

[philglasgow]

i havent measure yet but i dont really use the back much except at weekends to take her indoors shopping and ocassionally my immensly large german shepherd to the vet etc , so i can live with the reduced boot space.

i intend to take loads of pics of the 520 to see were everything goes, am i right in thinking that i can disconnect the pipes to the tank and all the gas will stay in it?

[Brianmoooore]

am i right in thinking that i can disconnect the pipes to the tank and all the gas will stay in it?

Yes, there are non return valves. There should also be a screw down valve on the inlet, and a solenoid valve on the outlet.

[philglasgow]

Hi Brian

I have some stupid questions I hope u can answer for me please.

The mixer ( I assumed this was just part of the throttle body that the air box was connected too, will i need a new mixer or will the one on the 520 fit , if so do i need a blanking plate for the 520) or am i confused .

The tapping into the cooling system for the vapouriser does this need to be from anywhere or specifically the engine block.

do you recommend anywere were i can source any parts i may need .

I think i may be looking at too many other sites and this isnt helping my confusion.

Do you have any pics of your install you could post here?

Thanks for your time


Phil

[Brianmoooore]

I don't know what mixer is on the 520 so I can't really say if it will fit the 318, although I doubt it.
The easiest mixer to fit to the 318 is a flat plate type mixer that will fit unside the air filter box at thte top , in place of the trumpet fitted there, and attached by the four bolts that bolt the air filter to the air mass meter. You will also need a "cat flap" backfire valve and pressure release. This fits over the outlet spigot of the air mass meter, and the convoluted air hose connects to the spigot provided.
You will need one of the right diameter to fit the 318 air meter and hose, and to fit it you will have to move the air meter and filter forwards by around an inch.
For the water plumbing, you can fit two (metal, preferably) tees in the hoses to the heater spigots near the bulkhead.
For new bits, try a firm called Tinleytech. Never dealt with them, but have heard good reports of them and they are DIY friendly. Also LPG kitsdirect, and I think Touringdaddy may have a source.
I have a digital camera, but have no idea how to post pictures on the site. Have managed to email photos a couple of times, so I could possibly do this with your address

[Gwynleym10]

Brain if you e-mail me the photo's i'll put them up, as i'm pretty interested in LPg set ups as well.

roberts_gwynAThotmailDOTcom

[TOURINGDADDY]

tinleytech is the supplyer that i use and are very good they can also certify diy kits. I currently have a 4 cyl kit 4 sale (second hand)

[Brianmoooore]

Just remembered - My email out is not working since i went broadband. Recieve emails OK, but if I try to send one the little icons at the bottomof the blue strip at the left of the screen go beserk, and little boxes saying "syntamec -scanning message 1 90%" keep flashing across the bottom of the screen.
After about a day I get a message pop up saying message could not be sent, and everything goes back to normal.
E30s, I know my way around. Computers I don't. Any experts out there?

[TOURINGDADDY]

mate try hostin link here http://www.imageshack.us/

then copy link and paste to reply

[Gwynleym10]

Brain, sounds like the photo's are very big files, thats why its taking syntamic so long to scan them/ send the e-mail.

If you reduce the size of the photo it will make it a smaller file. You can reduce the size in PAINT under "image", then under stretch/skew. use the top to boxes and reduce it by 50% in both. Then see how you get on.

There is a guide on uploading images in the FAQ section.

[Brianmoooore]

mate try hostin link here http://www.imageshack.us/

then copy link and paste to reply

You don't realise how little I knoew about computers!
Hosting is what the missus does when she has a barbecue, copying is what I used to do at school, and pasting is what you do to wallpaper.

[TOURINGDADDY]

[Brianmoooore]

Brain, sounds like the photo's are very big files, thats why its taking syntamic so long to scan them/ send the e-mail.
.

It not just photo emails that don't work. Single word ones , like "test" when I've tried to fix things don't send either.

[Gwynleym10]

this is the one to look at:

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... opic&t=677

[Gwynleym10]

It not just photo emails that don't work. Single word ones , like "test" when I've tried to fix things don't send either.

Hmm I don't know then, not really a computer expert. Ziggy may know.

How about setting up a yahoo/ hotmail account. They have pretty big inboxes now and easy to use.

[philglasgow]

I could be wrong but there is definately no mixer bolted anywhere near the throttle body on my 520 just the plastic air pipe with a gas pipe sank into the pipe about 3 inches from the throttle body i take it this is where the gas is fed in , , the only thing i see is the vapouriser that is bolted to wear the original air box was , is there an lpg system that doesnt use a mixer ? im sorry to be vague , but im gonna take some pics and hopefully post them on here to see if this clarifys the matter

Also anyone got a contact number for tinleytech?

[philglasgow]

Hi Brian heres a pic of the 520 set up
( hopefully)

[philglasgow]

and another

[TOURINGDADDY]

contact no 4 tinley is 01954 719002

[philglasgow]

thanks mate

[Brianmoooore]

Hi Brian heres a pic of the 520 set up
( hopefully)

Good news first. I've got my outgoing email sorted, so I'll try to find some time to take those pics, and email them to GwynleyM10, and your OMVL reducer is one of the best there is.
Can't see the water connections for the reducer on the photos, but there should be two tees into the heater circuit somewhere.
Is there a venturi mixer stuck up inside the convoluted air hose, held in place by the gas inlet spigot?
No lambda control of the gas mixture must have damaged the cat, and that cone filter right behind the radiator must do wonders for the power.Would also mess up the mixture as the viscous fan cuts in and out.
If you follow the 6mm plastic covered gas line from the rucer you should come to a filter/ solenoid valve that you can also use on your 318

[philglasgow]

Hi Brian

From what i can see there is no mixer but i havent taken the pipe out and looked down it so i guess thats the only logical place for it just the throttle body then the pipe with the gas going into it, the water pipes are just about in view under the maf connector.

The cone does make a nice noise but thats about all i was toying with using it also could this be used .

Any pics u can post would be great.


Cheers


Phil

[philglasgow]

Hi Brian

For various reasons the installation of the gas kit into the tourer will now not happen, however can you advise please on the rather high gas consumption of my 520 ( I did 128 miles and it took 60 litres of gas at 20 odd quid) so some thing is wrong is it not.

Its new ngk plugs , the k/n has just been cleaned , and gas was tuned a few months ago, however the lamda is suspect and the air flow meter has been removed, now I was under the impression that both these have no influence on the gas running of the car as its a basic and as you said the wrong system for the car but i would have expected considerably more .

I checked last night for leaks with a paint brush an soapy water and cant see anything wrong.

Would it be worth getting 1 of these variable piston mixers Ive seen on ebay or are they no use to my systems

Any ideas?




Phil

[Brianmoooore]

That's less than 10 MPG!. Should be more like 22, so somethings wromg.
Your system is so basic, that assuming the engine itself is in OK condition it can only be down to tuning.
I wouldn't go for a variable mixer, because a backfire would close it up and blow your inlet manifold to pieces. I've no experience of them but some people recomend them, and others say they have no benefits at all. An ordinary venturi mixer should do fine. There is one inside that pipe isn't there?