Rotrex M42 Build - 285bhp little update

Post Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:21 am

I did want to put the cooler the other way up but its just to thick. Theres about 2.75'' gap behind the brake duckting area and the intercooler is 3'' thick and then you've got to add abit for the hoses so thers no way it will go there. Unless you start cutting the front chassis to bits, which i didn't want to do.

if you look at the three intercooler pictures above you can see that if you turn the intercooler upside down the inlet/outlets are right were the brackets are to hold the valance to the front chassis, you can cut the bracket off but even then theres just not enough room, look how the middle is already touching the cooler and the bottom of the valance does curve back towards the car. no chance with a cooler this size maybe the next one down with a 480mm core.

Think ive got the lights sorted with these. Dip, main and side and look like they will mount easy to.

i'am going to get some ordered soon so i'll keep people updated as it makes the car cooks factory and you can have the insides blacnk or open

http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/prod/headlight-assem.html

Then i'm going to stick the inside lenses to the black grill so it still looks sleeper.

Post Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:40 pm

I see what you mean Matt with the IC, the guy who was going to do mine was custom building an IC but it was going to be thinner than yours

I try to use as much surface area as possible with not too thick a core. They have worked extremely well on the other conversions we've done but this is where costs start to escalate.

With the lights, I knew you'd find a cure

Post Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:32 pm

As You will see from the pics got some good work done. proved some bits i made fitted and made some more

heres make shift work shop at my dads house as its been raining all day! not that i made much difference it was still freezing

Cant wait till i get my gararge built at my house.

Got my 3" to 2 1/2" reducers in the post on friday so i cut them down and they fit great! bit tight but then a miss is a miss .

Started working on the boost pipe work to get the boost to the drivers side of the car, lucky i got some bends from work on friday!

Taped them togeather tightly with electrical tape then cut a hole in the tape and made a mark incase they moved, its also nice to get a few tacks on the pipe while its still held in place. the tape is suprisingly strong and works well, did my exhaust the same.

Ignore the blue top hose this was just to stop the coolent running out when i undid the pipe so i could work out how to run the boost pipe.

Heres the pipe all tacked up by me ready to be welded by some one who knows what there doing

I was thinking of polishing all the pipe work up but i think due to the position of the pipe i might heat rap it or use some of that reflective tape they use on the jap stuff when its all packed in, we'll see...

I was even able to fit the origonal top hose with the new pipe work although it is quite close so i might just add an "S" bend near the thermostat housing to give a little room.

You can also see a possble position for the airfilter its low down and in the bay but requires next to no pipework leaves lots of room for the chargers oil pump and filter but it wont have the best coole air flow.

And this is the other possible location more "conventional" but requires some difficult pipe work to keep the bonnet able to shut and not reub on the inner wing

This is the way i'd like to do it i just hope i can make it look good and not foul anything

Think if i add another 45d bend after the 90 it will get the filter pointin down nicely, if it does pipe up ok i think ill do that pipein black crackel paint

Post Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:45 pm

Lovely stuff as always matt

Post Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:27 pm

Busy bay I like it lol!

What you doing about the alternator?

What crank pully wheel are you using?

Post Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:35 pm

Alternator is already swopped to the otherside, did that abit back in preperation.

Still using the standard V belt pully to keep the overhang down on the front bearing, then a M43 crank pully with the trigger wheel machined off bolted to that.

Post Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:31 am

How about sending the pipes of to be ceramicly(Sp?) coated like they do on exhaust manifolds ?

You can get loads of finish's/colours and you'll cut down on the heat conductivity warming your inlet air ?

Might be over kill though ?

Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:53 pm

appletree wrote:Still using the standard V belt pully to keep the overhang down on the front bearing, then a M43 crank pully with the trigger wheel machined off bolted to that.

My head has been spinning figuring that out lol!

So you have removed the M42 pully wheel and replaced it with the M43 pully wheel which has more teeth correctness?

Post Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:27 pm

Nope! the pullys go, M42 trigger wheel and v-belt (all a oner) then a m43 trigger wheel with the trigger wheel machined off so its just got the serpentine belt drive on it then a e36 power steering pully.

Theres pic's and details on my old thered, think i poeted the links on you thread.

The m43 pully gives 13,800 RPM supercharger at 6500rpm engine which means the chargers running flat out made 8-10 psi on mine

Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:31 pm

Well, i decided to change the angle of the chrager as i was no longer needed to run the boost to the lower corner and would give a better oil supply to the charger due to the angle.

Problem was this then changed the length of the pipe work on the top run so i cut a section out of it and then re tacked it up.

When i went to work to tack it up i rang one of the welders and he talked me through how to purge it and weld it properly. what do you think to the results??

just ran round this with a soft polishing wheel to remove the heat marking.

this is the result of purging a pipe, you dont get it coking up.

And its not a blocked bog as my dad thought its the inside of the pipe

Finished welded pipework.

Induction to the charger

Charger to intercooler

both togeather

Bought my self a new throttle body, it from a m30 b30 from a 7series, just need to make an adaptor plate so it can take the new style throttle POT.

The pipes fitted on the car tonight.

Once ive decided where the other pipes need to go in to the pipes i'll have a go at welding them on and then polish all the pipes and see how they look.

Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:20 pm

Sweet Matt!

Your better at welding than you made out! Very nice, I bow down at your achievement

You'll be shocked at the new iat's you'll be seeing, so far -11c is the lowest and that's at the TB!

Are you still worried about heat build up in the long charge pipe? I'd say it would be fine as is, my outlet pipe is always warm, it's the IC pipe that you need to worry about, but you're is soo small and direct it's pretty much spot on.

I'm plumbing for a 80mm billet TB, seen one in the flesh, very tasty, you get the flange too

Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:58 pm

Cheers, my welding isn't brilliant normaly but purging the pipe, for me, made it easyier.

Are they the TB's off Ebay advertised as cosworth/nissan TB's? i did look at them but they were abit dear for me, would be nice though.

Like you say i think the pipe will probly be ok, going to put a few temperature measureing probes before, after and at the Tb so i can keep an eye on things.

Need to start on the plenum now so i can get the TB position right and then make up the last section of pipe

Were did you plum in your cam breather? TTS performance recomended i put it infront of the supercharger so its allways under vacum, they say they have got small performance gains from running it like this to, so can't be bad.

Got the cheque today to cheers

Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:14 pm

Yes, there universal, go up to 100mm! 80mm seems fine for what I have, so that's the plan, seem them for 80 or so on tuner websites.

I found it hard to cross over my manifold/turbo to plumb mine back into the intake so I vent to atmosphere, smells a little on idle but no issues otherwise, a breather filter would be good. Some use catch cans, depends if yours spits oil or not, mine does a little but nothing to worry about, been like it for years.

Post Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:38 pm

You dont think 80mm will be to on/off do you?

How much bigger is it than the standard one?

Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:36 am

beautiful welding there! im sure most of the work you have done is better qualtiy then you could buy from a shop!

make supercharging look so easy

good work mate

Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:13 am

Wow! Great welding!!

Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:09 pm

appletree wrote:You dont think 80mm will be to on/off do you?

How much bigger is it than the standard one?

They can come with progressive setups to help with that issue and I think stock is about 75mm od, so it's not that much bigger, which is why I'm not going 100mm, the rest of the system is 3inch, seemed a logical choice.

Glad you got the cheque

Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:34 pm

Oooooh, how did I miss this thread?! :lol:

That's some awesome welding there Matt, did you use filler wire or just let the two bits flow into eachother?

Guess you'll just be selling the other kit you made?

Fair play for taking the clean sheet approach dude

Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:42 pm

Gotta admit I can't find the progressive spindle setup on them but it's somewhere, looks like a D drive spindle which will fit my mustang tps sensor, handy! ( that's the 100mm one in the pic )

Hey Alex, How's things?

Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:52 pm

Crikey, that's one chunky throttle!

It's pretty easy to make a really nice progressive linkage, especially when you've only got one throttle to actuate

I'm good thanks Mark, how's you dude?

Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:08 pm

All cool here thanks, skint but alive

No issues to report, little things that get solved quite quickly these days, last one was a loud whistle just before and after boost, turned out to be a loose nut on the inlet manifold, then there was the random rev spikes, that was the VR wire getting pushed into the back of the water pump pulley, sorted that once I had some daylight. Overall been great, 10.5psi is plenty for wet, dirty, greasy winter roads! Been doing some info exchanges with Gunni to try and see what going on and where to go next, more boost is the call, more boost it is then!! come March I hope to visit a RR for a session, needs to be done properly the goals I have in mind.

I found the speed adjustment on my pillar drill, it's just like the old ones at college, belts and pulleys, goes down to 210, slow enough for milling stainless, ali and cast?

Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:00 am

It might do ali but you would have to take very small cuts as its the partly to do with the ridgity of the machine not to move around the when its cutting. do you have a miller at work you could use?

Alex, i just let the metal join, i was told to make sure the pipes were as clean and fitted togeather the best they could with no gaps, then if you purge the pipe the pressure on the inside pushes the weld outward and keeps it smooth. i did use alittle wire when i started the weld and started to blow a hole.

And yes i will be selling the old set up, but only when ive proven this one is good

Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:22 pm

Picked up the lights from S-V-C yesterday, not had anytime to look at fitting them yet or how they will mount but thought i'd add a few pics for you.

Look pritty much the same apart from no smilie and a slightly more pronouced dish on them.

Post Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:28 pm

Question about ya brakes bud, how ya finding the 280mm's are at stopping it? Not sure whether to go for 280mm's or 310mm's as its a track car.

Is this your fan thermostat?

Post Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:55 pm

Thats my leccy fan switch yes, its an E34 one. theres an easy convesion using the standard fuse box, i'll PM you the link if ive still got it. i had to put it here as i dont have the boss in the rad like you do. it is designd to fit in there not like ive done it.

Post Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:09 pm

Thanks for the PM mate

Found some wiring diagrams and ordered the thermostat switch and other bits from BMW

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:30 pm

Bit of progress, been making the plate that attaches to the lower inlet manifold. i'm going to be bolting the stainless plenum to this ally sheet with a gasket and bolts all round.

Heres the ally plate bolted to the inlet mainfold.

After bolting the ally plate to inlet i holesaw'd through it in line with the runners with a slightly smaller holesaw and the used a rotory burr in a drill to open them out.

To start the Trumpet shapped radius of the runner i used a de-burrer, this gave a radius of around 6-7mm

Been Practising my welding again, Not quite as pritty i must say, had to use quite alot of wire as it was quite hard to get the head of the tourch in to the corner of the plenum as there was a much larger plate when i welded it to try and spread the heat and stop it warping which it did quite well with only a corner warping which i bent back with a big adjustable.

Just marked out were the ports will be all though i'm going to be cutting the holelot out of the inside and just bolting it around the outside.

This is how the finished plenum will bolt up but with rounded edges to keep it looking neat. then i'am going to cut the excess off both the ally sheet and the stainless plenum and drill all the holes to bolt it all togeather tomorrow so they'll probly be an update tomorrow

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:23 pm

nice work!

using the oem runners makes life easier!

I have cut the main backplate, split the straight and the 45' bend with the 1mm cutting disc, will take the bits in to be finished and welded this week, just not sure which way to go with welding the runners to the flange, will it work with the stainless or do I need ali stubs welded on?

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:39 pm

Dont quite understand which bits you trying to weld but you cant weld ally to stainless. i thought you were welding stubs to the stainless and then joining them with samco to the runners in ally possibly cut down iff 325 ones arnt in to halfs??

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:10 pm

stainless runners off the manifold, just wasn't sure about the flange, will see what ali tube I can obtain this week. The next bit will be a pain, getting the runners all in line is gonna be fun, the flange is a bit of a mess, time for more cutting! The actual size of the manifold is smaller than I planned, mostly due to the fact #6 runner is right up against the bulkhead and there's all sorts in the way, had to slim it down a little, still the right shape and less parts overall.

Can't wait to get it together, coming together ok so far, taped it all up and it just need final few cuts and welding, will leave that to do at work, see what 'free' time I can find

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:18 pm

Great work Matt

Post Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:22 pm

I'm getting there!

Will get it tacked tomorrow then sort out the plates for top and bottom.

Would you drill 50mm holes for the runners a poke them into the plenum or drill 47mm holes and weld the pipes to the outside? I've seen some that poke through with flared ends, if I can form the steel a little I'll try that, if not keep I'll it simple. Will take it all in tomorrow and spend some time not working

Post Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:32 pm

Looking great mate!!! its going to look amazing when its finished

Think id do the 47mm holes, but it depends a bit on what size hole saw you have unless you use a smaller one the rotor burr it out. make sure you welder clamps the flat plate to a bench or a big chunk of metal to stop it warping!!

then when its all taked up lay it on your plate and mark it out drawing through the plenum if that makes sense, cut on the outside of the line and then sand it back ( not trying to tell you ho to suck eggs but mine was nearly to small even though i cut on the scrap side) the smaller the gaps the easier and neater it will be for the welder to do.

cant wait to see it finished and if it makes a difference. maybe you could make a few more

Post Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:49 pm

Cheers buddy!

I'll def take care when welding it, the flange has a few mill extra all round the edge, wasn't sure if welder wanted it like that, like you say it can be sanded back when it comes too the final weld.

I was hoping to get the holes cut on a mill, not sure yet, otherwise hole cutters are in 44 or 48mm IIRC, have tried for a old fashioned hole cutter but they don't go that big!!

Post Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:05 pm

Hole saws are a bit rough to especialy in stainless. I did two 55mm holes in mine to day with them and it took ages.

You've not got much on at work at the minite then?

Leave 15mm past the bottom when you cut the sheet too so when you sand the top you dot loose it at the bottom then you can flat it back.

What finish are you going with? Think i might crackle black mine as its got afew small warps in it that would show up if you polish it. An it might make the bay too shiney with all my other pipes.