Triumph 2500S

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Elecblondie
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:55 am

Bewdley320T wrote:
Elecblondie wrote:
StuBeeDoo wrote:Nice car. :D I had an acquaintance many years ago who had a 2000 Estate with a Stag V8 in. :cool:
Cool, I've got a friend with a Stag V8 powered Dolomite. 8)

Probably the worst cosmetic looking roadworthy car I know.
"STAG V8" now there's a crap engine if there ever was one, the only thing that killed the STAG.

Well I'm not well enough informed to argue this point but the people I know that know about them would suggest otherwise. I know that the stag V8 dolly goes pretty damn well at least, better than an RV8 one. What would be a better engine choice then?
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:10 am

Bewdley320T wrote:"STAG V8" now there's a crap engine if there ever was one, the only thing that killed the STAG.
Bollocks!
With regular coolant flush/change, they run perfectly well. Granted, the cooling system was badly designed - waterways barely big enough and the standard radiator is too small - but if they are looked after......
What killed the Stag was typical British Leyland under-investment.
This is why I no longer drive an E30......

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Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:44 am

StuBeeDoo wrote:
Bewdley320T wrote:"STAG V8" now there's a crap engine if there ever was one, the only thing that killed the STAG.
Bollocks!
With regular coolant flush/change, they run perfectly well. Granted, the cooling system was badly designed - waterways barely big enough and the standard radiator is too small - but if they are looked after......
What killed the Stag was typical British Leyland under-investment.
Back in the day the Triumph V8 was known to have cooling problems.Not so today,the specialists have them well sorted.A decent Stag makes a very sound classic motor,small enough to keep in the average garage,V8 soundtrack,reasonable running costs,looks good, what else do you want from a classic? Like the sig.Stu,like those wheels as well... :D
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:05 pm

Actually 'Russet brown' me thinks (well that's what BL called it if memory serves).
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:09 pm

Always had a soft spot for the Stag, their best looking car IMO

The old man had 2 when I was a nipper, a Yellow one and then a purple one, they sound awesome. Also had a powder blue colour GT6 at the same time.
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:38 pm

The Stag V8 was, and still is, a chunk of shit. Problems?

The camshafts were positioned in the head such that the inner head studs had to be wound in at an angle and then the nuts wound on. So immediately you have unequal clamping forces on the heads. You try even fitting the studs one the head's been skimmed! Head gaskets were always a problem.

Timing chains were notoriously weak. By 30k the tensioner travel is used up and you need to replace the chains. Nice.

Small big ends. These used crankpins that weren't really big enough and very few get past 100k without the crank knocking its tits off.

Distributor. BL used a cheap and nasty Lucas copy of a V8 Rolls Royce unit with twin points. Add a bit of spindle wear and the ignition timing is all over the place and Stags were not very fogiving of this. Cue a holed piston or two, but cured with a Lumenition kit.

Cooling system. This was a joke, period. Not just the radiator and the inadequate cooling passages in the block, but the shimmed water pump that sits in the V and needs to be shimmed to the correct height to get the required flow.


Apart from that, they weren't a bad engine. winkeye

It was an interesting design but it needed Mercedes Benz to build it. BL had enough trouble making A Series engines to a consistent standard. As it is, a Stag needs a properly fitted Rover V8 to become a reliable car. The Stag V8 has been 'sorted', but it would always be like a reformed serial killer because you could never trust it 100%.
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:42 pm

Oh, and if that wasnt enough the hardtop needed an army to put it on & off and the hood was crap as well! (Trouble was they tried to copy a Merc hood I think but didn't want to spend the development money (that was the problem with BMC/BL?Rover).
No wonder our motor industry has gone down the Thomas. It was OK in the "Good old days", proper agricultural engineering but once the "management" boys and accountants got involved we were finished.
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:32 am

StuBeeDoo wrote:
Bewdley320T wrote:"STAG V8" now there's a crap engine if there ever was one, the only thing that killed the STAG.
Bollocks!
With regular coolant flush/change, they run perfectly well. Granted, the cooling system was badly designed - waterways barely big enough and the standard radiator is too small - but if they are looked after......
What killed the Stag was typical British Leyland under-investment.
Bullshit!!! it was basically two 4 cyl engines cobbled together to make a V8. Your right that it had cooling problems but don't try to kid anybody that that was the only problem coz it wasn't. A mate of mine spent more on the engine of his 3 year old model than a NEW Rover V8 would have cost to fit just because he wanted to keep it original. In the end he gave up and sold the car.
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:04 am

Seem to recall that the Triumph I6 is quite short being just an OHV engine with the cam down in the block, might be worth checking that the beemer engine would go under the bonnet height wise maybe :)

How about tuning the one you've got though, I reckon they'd do very nicely thank you very much, with a turbo conversion.

Shame the cranks only have 4 main bearings though, can't imagine them being overly stiff.
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:53 pm

Andyboy wrote:The Stag V8 has been 'sorted', but it would always be like a reformed serial killer because you could never trust it 100%.
:teehee:
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Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:34 pm

Andyboy wrote:The Stag V8 was, and still is, a chunk of shit. Problems?

The camshafts were positioned in the head such that the inner head studs had to be wound in at an angle and then the nuts wound on. So immediately you have unequal clamping forces on the heads. You try even fitting the studs one the head's been skimmed! Head gaskets were always a problem.

Timing chains were notoriously weak. By 30k the tensioner travel is used up and you need to replace the chains. Nice.

Small big ends. These used crankpins that weren't really big enough and very few get past 100k without the crank knocking its tits off.

Distributor. BL used a cheap and nasty Lucas copy of a V8 Rolls Royce unit with twin points. Add a bit of spindle wear and the ignition timing is all over the place and Stags were not very fogiving of this. Cue a holed piston or two, but cured with a Lumenition kit.

Cooling system. This was a joke, period. Not just the radiator and the inadequate cooling passages in the block, but the shimmed water pump that sits in the V and needs to be shimmed to the correct height to get the required flow.


Apart from that, they weren't a bad engine. winkeye

It was an interesting design but it needed Mercedes Benz to build it. BL had enough trouble making A Series engines to a consistent standard. As it is, a Stag needs a properly fitted Rover V8 to become a reliable car. The Stag V8 has been 'sorted', but it would always be like a reformed serial killer because you could never trust it 100%.
I agree with this mostly, however speaking as a Triumph geek I feel I must point out a couple of minor technicalities with your statement, the waterpump was not shimmed to attain the correct flow, the waterpump cover is what needs shimming, well actually they are gaskets of varying thickness.
would the 4 pot turbo out of the classic shape Saab 900 turbo, which I believe has some Triumph heritage not bolt up to a/ the triumph bell housing?
The block would theoretically bolt up to the Triumph gearbox but I think you would have trouble getting the head and stuff on, it's all back to front in the SAAB so exhaust and inlet would be round the wrong way, this has been discussed on the Dolomite forum but the consensus is that it's not possible.
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:39 pm

Dont agree with ugly, I really like them. I would love one but my current retro project is an 84 Daimler Double six.

If it was mine I'd have it painted in Triumph Blue as per Dolopashite Sprints.
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:16 pm

The Stag V8 was designed at the same time as the 4 cylinder it came from. The Triumph slant four was designed by Triumph - but not for a Triumph car. Saab needed an engine to power the 99 saloon which came out in 1967 and so Triumph designed the engine which was a 1.7 litre (1703cc or something like that). The Stag arrived in 1969/70 but the slant four wasn't used by Triumph until 1972 when they enlarged it to 1850cc and put it in a RWD 1500TC shell to create the first Dolomite (well, there was a pre war one, but.....)
It was never a great engine and Saab redesigned it and took assembly in house for 1974. The 1973 Sprint was a 2 litre, and Triumph made a 2 litre SOHC version (Sprint bottom end and 1850 Dolomite head) for the TR7. The 2 litre version was a fairly good engine, unexciting but plenty of torque and decently reliable if well maintained.
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:30 pm

Hmm got to agree with Andyboy on this one.

How about a Stag with 4.4 V8 from a 540/740? winkeye
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Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:37 pm

I emailed my friend with the Stag powered Dolomite to see what he thought and it seems by and large he agrees with you Andyboy.
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:20 am

Wow - I've always liked these and my folks used to have one when I was a kid in the 70s. Don't think it's ugly at all tbh. Good luck with the project!
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Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:47 pm

I.ve put it up for sale on the classic car sites. I'm E30-less atm and need a fresh one to play with. :D
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Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:45 pm

anothere21323i wrote:Hmm got to agree with Andyboy on this one.

How about a Stag with 4.4 V8 from a 540/740? winkeye
Almost a waste of an engine, but you can buy a good 3 litre M60 for £200 and it would work well in a Snag.
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Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:02 pm

True, although would it not be a little nose-heavy?
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:19 pm

Andyboy wrote:
Distributor. BL used a cheap and nasty Lucas copy of a V8 Rolls Royce unit with twin points. Add a bit of spindle wear and the ignition timing is all over the place and Stags were not very fogiving of this. Cue a holed piston or two, but cured with a Lumenition kit.

The Stag V8 has been 'sorted', but it would always be like a reformed serial killer because you could never trust it 100%.
Standard Triumph used an AC Delco distributor on the stag,not the Lucas one that Rolls Royce used.The Lucas item WAS used by Daimler,for their two V8 engines.The Rolls and the Daimler engines have the same firing order, Stag engine has a different firing order.The distributor caps are not interchangable,as living very close to Rimmer Bros and being an ex Daimler V8 owner I descovered to my cost... winkeye
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:41 pm

i think id keep it as it is
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:59 pm

What I meant to say was, the Stag unit was a cheap copy of the Lucas Rolls unit. AC Delco disributors were used on the Dolomite and TR7 as well. The AC Delco thing was from the days of Standard Triumph before they became part of BL. I think even a Herald has an AC Delco dizzy/coil in the same way they used Stromberg carbs and not SU.
The Snag does indeed have a different firing order - it's that and the link pipes in the front exhaust system that give it the 'woofle' you can never quite get back with a Rover V8. In a similar manner, the PRV V6 engine in the Peugeot 604, Renault 25/30 and Volvo 760 etc has a weid firing order because it's a 90 degree V - basically a V8 with two pots knocked off.
My Mate Doug had a 1972 stag, changed the plugs and leads and refitted them in the old 18436572 layout and the bastard would not even start, banging from the exhaust and chuffing through the carbs. Everything was checked and it was only looking in the handbook that he sussed it......... :o:
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:45 pm

I thought the PRV V6 had a 1-5-3-6-2-4 order, but the early ones had funny ignition timing. Used to have a Volvo with one of the early 2.7 engines in it, rough as a badgers arse that engine was!
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:29 pm

The original ones did until about the time it went into the Renault 25. The early ones were carburetted or used Bosch K Jet or something equally ghastly. Some Volvo applications used an SU carburettor or two. They always ran oddly and had a strange off beat sound to them, as well as being gutless and horribly unreliable. They were a nightmare for head gaskets and timing chain issues, just a pile of French shit basically but the later ones in The Renner 25 and Volvo 760 weren't bad. There is a pretty good Wikipedia article about it.
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:07 pm

Blimey, we must've had a good one as it only went through a water pump in about 150k miles!

It was gutless and vibrated like hell, but when all your mates drive cars with a maximum of a 1.4 litre engine (at the age of about 19) having a mighty 2.7 makes you king! :lol: Ours was the Bosch K-Jet.

Not the best system, but the car did start first turn of the key after sitting for over 5 years so not the worst either!
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:19 pm

Andyboy wrote:The original ones did until about the time it went into the Renault 25. The early ones were carburetted or used Bosch K Jet or something equally ghastly. Some Volvo applications used an SU carburettor or two. They always ran oddly and had a strange off beat sound to them, as well as being gutless and horribly unreliable. They were a nightmare for head gaskets and timing chain issues, just a pile of French shit basically but the later ones in The Renner 25 and Volvo 760 weren't bad. There is a pretty good Wikipedia article about it.
Was this the same engine that they used in the DeLorean? Because they were utter dogsh*t!
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:11 pm

The self same engine! I believe they were sourced from Volvo too, as theirs was the most powerful variant at a wopping 147ish bhp!
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:35 pm

The same as in the Alpine GTA, though that was not quite so sluggish in turbo form. Anyway....I got offered a PX on the Triumph today, a 1992 E34 525.....dunno yet.
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Henry_IS
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:35 pm

Just for you Mr E.

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as for the 2500s in i think russet brown prob the worst colour ever but still a very nice car had loads of them over the years,
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Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:40 pm

I thought they were Lotus engines in the DeLorean
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Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:18 pm

robbo86 wrote:I thought they were Lotus engines in the DeLorean
No, but Lotus did a lot of the chassis development work. Shame on them....
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Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:21 pm

Shame on them....
I dunno, appalling cars admittedly, but there is something about them, maybe that because I watched all 3 Back to to Future films :roll:
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Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:00 pm

Thanks Henry. :D

The first pic looks like a very late mark 2 in Java green. Very pretty car in a great colour. I'd almost be tempted by a sorted Stag Auto with a proper Rover V8 conversion and a hardtop.
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Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:29 pm

10 out or 10 Mr E. both of them are powered by the v8 stag lump and never and a problem with either of them, by changing the lump for a rover would half the value of the cars now days
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Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:59 pm

just a quick note i think it should be a fairly easy conversion as the engine bay is quite large a friend of mine has done this conversion to a triumph gt6, had to modify the sump, chassis, bulkhead and exhaust manifolds. all the best with the conversion if you do it
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