Big Brake Kit recommendations

[doggydoo2000]

Hi,

Looking to upgrade the brakes on my track car. I've seen 'kits' for over £1k but thats a bit over the top - can anyone recommend a good big brake kit at a reasonable price.

325i 1987 on 15" rims

thanks

[lm11]

Id like to know too..

[stevenmurphy]

wms brakes come highly recomended there quiet cheap too im on the waitin list for them

[12345kevin]

There is'nt many that fit under 15" rims. I was going to get the wilwood kit. But in the end bought complete M3 suspension and brakes for the same money !

[320Touring]

I'd speak to Baddave on here- he has a 302mm setup with 4pots that fit under a 16" wheel and feel like someone is pulling your scalp off.

good progressive pedal too

[AlpineAde]

UUC do a BBK starting at around $900 US.

Another good site worth checking is massivebrakes.com

See here:

http://www.massivebrakes.com/kits/e30/n ... ll/318-325

Aside from places like these you start getting into some pretty expensive territory.

[keri-WMS]

For what it's worth we're only a bit of disc-machining away from have 10x kits available (calipers/brackets/threaded inserts all on the shelf)!

[Nay]

Oooohhh, they look good. May invest one day..... (starting to dream...... )

[oldroydsr4]

Wilwood do a 280mm kit that fits under 15s

[charlE30]

www.300mm.de is worth a look

[keri-WMS]

The WMS 280mm kit definitely fits under the 15" BBS on the E30 (it was the "common race wheel" that we designed for!).

[march109]

The WMS 280mm kit definitely fits under the 15" BBS on the E30 (it was the "common race wheel" that we designed for!).

How much are they though?

[tomtomiS]

The WMS 280mm kit definitely fits under the 15" BBS on the E30 (it was the "common race wheel" that we designed for!).

How much are they though?

+1

[keri-WMS]

The WMS 280mm kit definitely fits under the 15" BBS on the E30 (it was the "common race wheel" that we designed for!).

How much are they though?

+1

RRP as of today is looking like being EDIT - SEE BOTTOM OF PAGE (calipers/brackets+inserts/pads/discs/fixings) but might change very slightly once the discs are machined, I'll be offering genuine zoners 5% or so off this. Also I can do free UK zone 1 shipping if we use bank-transfer instead of PayPal to save the fees: of course PayPal is still fine if you've rather but shipping would be £10.00+vat.

Last thing: VAT is 15% as of Monday, saving you £10.56 of VAT on the RRP compared with last week! EDIT - NOW BACK TO 17.5%

The dollar, shipping and material costs have all hurt us since last year, as well as the new brackets cost more to make (but are sooooo worth it in my book)! Remember if you are comparing the WMS T-20 caliper with Wilwood, the Wilwood caliper you should be looking at is the "Wilwood Billet Dynalite". (the normal Dynalite is not CNC machined/anodised).

Here are those brackets:

[Rav335uk]

Is that price for front and rear??????

[mccarthy]

if it is i'm having a set!!

[keri-WMS]

Is that price for front and rear??????

Just the front, sorry! We can supply (very good value) new rear discs and EBC reds to match the front WMS setup though.

[Rav335uk]

How much for both sets please??

[DanThe]

What the crack with those threaded inserts?

[keri-WMS]

What the crack with those threaded inserts?

I'm not sure what you mean....?

[mccarthy]

i think he means what are the small threaded inserts for?

[town325i]

he means the bits that look like they came off a push bike that hold your front chain wheel to the crank

[Theo]

Maybe they're used as a preventative measure for when hamfished 'tards do their best to mash up the thread in the alloy adaptor with the steel bolt?

[e30cossie]

They are inserts for the spacing brackets as you can see them fitted in the picture.

One looks like a hellicoil and other a reducer for the hole.

[keri-WMS]

How much for both sets please??

See this for prices: http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=209737

There are quite a few options, each "kit" includes calipers/brackets+inserts/discs/bolts - pads and line are extra (to see if a kit will fit your wheels open it's PDF, print it out, check the scale....and offer it up to your wheel!).

When comparing WMS and Wilwood it's well worth noting that EBC pads for the Wilwood Midilite caliper are almost twice the price of the same size and material EBC pad for the WMS T20, and that the WMS/Earls lines are a proper "E30 specific fit", where as the lines supplied with many E30/Wilwood kits in the UK are "not great" (do a search)! Also the WMS-style of CNC brackets with stainless insterts are not found on Wilwood E30 kits and neither are the WMS/E30 1.25" piston sizes.

Here are the WMS E30 kits (each includes calipers/brackets+inserts/bolts etc/discs):

4P025 - 280x22 size kit with best wheel clearance (printable clearance test profile: 280x22 kit PDF ) = (£see link at top RRP - 5% E30Zone member discount) = £see link at top


4P028 - 298.5x24 size kit with good wheel clearance (printable clearance test profile: 298.5x24 kit PDF ) = (£see link at top RRP - 5% E30Zone member discount) = £see link at top


4P144 - 300x26 size kit with highest thermal mass (printable clearance test profile: 300x26 kit PDF ) = (£see link at top RRP - 5% E30Zone member discount) = £see link at top



OPTIONS:
- Grooved discs are offered as a service, and add £see link at top
- EBC Reds are £see link at top
- EBC Yellows are £see link at top
- Ferodo DS2500 (fast road) = £see link at top
- Ferodo DS3000 (race) = £see link at top
- Front 2009 spec improved Earls WMS-fit braided brake lines = £see link at top
- WMS hub-centric 2.0mm G60 (280x22) disc offset-fix spacers = £see link at top (these work on Wilwood 280mm kits as well)
- Rear discs = £see link at top
- Rear EBC Reds = £see link at top
- UK shipping = £FREE (if settled by bank transfer, £10+vat if by PayPal, applies to brake kits only)



SPARES:
- Replacement 280x22mm discs are £see link at top
- Replacement 298.5x24mm discs are £see link at top
- Replacement 300x26mm discs are £see link at top



We also do these "OEM Fit" bits if it helps:

E30 325i etc (vented front discs, rear discs not drums):
EBC Red front = £see link at top
EBC Red rear = £see link at top
EBC Yellow front = £see link at top
EBC Yellow rear = £see link at top
EBC Blue front = £see link at top
EBC Blue rear = £see link at top
Standard handbrake shoes = £see link at top
260x22 front discs = £see link at top
258x10 rear disc/drum combo = £see link at top
Earls braided hose kit (4 lines) = £see link at top

E30 M3:
EBC Red front = £see link at top
EBC Red rear = £see link at top
EBC Yellow front = £see link at top
EBC Yellow rear = £see link at top
EBC Blue front = not available for some reason
EBC Blue rear = £see link at top
Earls braided hose kit (6 lines) = £see link at top


I've been working on bias a bit recently, ONLY as a simplified "brake setup vs brake setup" comparison, not an overall car study - so this ignores everything other than the caliper/pad/disc.

Here are four examples, interesting results I thought!

Standard E30 saloon (not Touring!)


...fitted with 280mm disc / 1.25" piston WMS kit:


...fitted with 298.5mm disc / 1.25" piston WMS kit:


...fitted with 280mm disc / 1.38" piston WMS kit, this is the earlier spec and is still available for people wanting more front bias inside the 15" BBS (due to running semi-slicks for instance):


---- photos ----

Here's the 280x22 4P025 fitting inside the 15" BBS (made for BMW by BBS) and the FPS-BBS (made for BMW by FPS), but the Alu-BBS (made for BMW by Alu) does NEED the 2.0mm spacer as it's tighter behind the spokes:


290mm vented 2-pot retaining the handbrake, one is already in Beta testing:

[tomtomiS]

pm sent

[keri-WMS]

i think he means what are the small threaded inserts for?

They are about getting the best of both worlds. Aluminium brackets are easily strong enough to take the loads created during braking, but have a few issues:
- Aluminium is a bit soft to have threads in it, especially if the bolt is taken in and out a lot.
- They are also at risk from people fitting extra washers and/or shorter bolts etc resulting in less engagement, or over-torquing, basic human error etc.

Steel/Stainless brackets on the other hand are fine for the threads, but also have issues:
- They are heavy.
- They are also very expensive to machine.

By fitting heavy duty stainless inserts into aluminium you get the lighter bracket, but with the stronger threads! In effect the aluminium "sees" a much larger bolt/thread so it has an easier life. Other things worth noting:

1 - The inserts are 431 or 303 Stainless Steel. 431 is a VERY high grade of steel, in fact its properties and tensile strength are similar to a Grade 12.9 bolt (think ARP rod bolts etc).

2 - The inserts are fixed into the bracket with a grade of Locktite retainer that can withstand high temperatures (the softening/"disassembly temperature" is 250 degrees C) and is fully resistant to motor oil, unleaded petrol, brake fluid and ethanol.

3 - In destruction-testing we tried to pull an M10 bolt/insert out of a bracket by over torquing it. It made it to 80FtLb (twice the 40FtLb suggested for use one the car) before the Grade 12.9 BOLT stretched.

4 - Lastly this is not an untested concept: Wilwood's own USA-market brackets are aluminium with threaded inserts as well.

he means the bits that look like they came off a push bike that hold your front chain wheel to the crank

Maybe they're used as a preventative measure for when hamfished 'tards do their best to mash up the thread in the alloy adaptor with the steel bolt?

That's the main one really!

They are inserts for the spacing brackets as you can see them fitted in the picture.

One looks like a hellicoil and other a reducer for the hole.

Kind off, both are thick tubes with threads inside and out - but the smaller one has a top-hat type flange added. We might drop the top-hat's flange in the next batch though...

I hate helicoils, they are a spring in essence and while they DO work - I still just don't like them!

[scotty86d]

Looks like an awesome setup there!!!

[keri-WMS]

Just some photos I took earlier as I finally got my batch of discs to complete the stock, this is the first time the new E30 brackets have been seen! Interestingly the "blank" G60 discs seem to have gone back to having cooling holes in the bell, but they are appear better made with thicker material than very early G60 discs were so it's all good.

[DanThe]

Dibs the first set

[keri-WMS]

Dibs the first set

Ok as you're already on the waiting list! Anyone else want to grab one of this batch now?

Kit 1 = DanThe
Kit 2 = ?
Kit 3 = ?

[zaust]

There is'nt many that fit under 15" rims. I was going to get the wilwood kit. But in the end bought complete M3 suspension and brakes for the same money !

Ap do a set that will fit with a 15 but then nearly 1500 for the set up.

[bigj]

can u put me down for a kit please
pm sent

J

[keri-WMS]

can u put me down for a kit please
pm sent

J

Yup, ta! (PM reply on the way...)

[keri-WMS]

Just a qick note - my disc supplier has discontinued the rear E30 discs!!! I can get them from EBC still, but they will be more expensive - about £40ish/pr. Sorry lads!

(Of course I'll honour the lower price for people who have ordered already....)