M42 Rotrex (for sale!) + track build

[rix313]

Update:

Engine discussion. Pg 14 - 17
--------
Charger discussion. Pg 10 - 13
--------
First start and engine bay pics. Pg 10
--------
New exhaust and other bits fitted. Pg 8
--------
Oil hosing. Pg 7
--------
Battery cut out system. Pg 7
--------
New engine fitted. Pg 7
--------
Wilwoods fitted. Pg 7
--------
Battery relocation wiring complete...for now. Pg 7
--------
Alternator relocation. Pg 6 and 7
--------
Remote oil filter head fitted. Pg 6
--------
Battery relocation started. Pg 6
--------
Wheel studs fitted. Pg 6
--------
COP plate fitment. Pg 5
--------
Super charger mock bracket. Pg 5
--------
Fan wiring, S/C and coolant pipework, start of engine work. Pg 5
--------
New engine and new oil parts arrived. Pg 5
--------
New head lights. Pg 4
--------
Intercooler fitted. Pg 4
--------
Fueling parts @ engine end purchased. Pg 4
--------
Mock intercooler fitted. Pg 3
--------
Fly wheel machined down, pics of fly wheel and clutch. Pg 3
--------
Fan and rad assembled, new intercooler arrived. Pg 3
--------
First days work removing parts and playing around with ideas for mountings etc. Pg 2
--------
Clutch parts arrived. Pg 2




Nothing new here but here goes mine.

I am waiting for my old bmw to be delivered from the seller which should be any day now (pics soon)

I have already purchased a few parts.

Super charger:


What im planing to use for my charge cooler + header tank:




I got a good price on a gearbox and some new wing mirrors from JC-BM.

I got a bargain 11inch electric Spal fan from my local scrap yard for £5 and it works

Plus few other bits for sorting the paint work etc.

I've spent £288 so far but I have managed to save £180 so far (would've been close to £500) on my original outlook for costs which I'm happy about.


Next month I'll be ugrading the clutch to an organic stage one set up, fitting Powerflex bushes to the front end (already has rears) and getting more bits for the cooling like electric fans and water pumps.

More pics soon

P.S. thanks to Appletree for inspiration

[TomCropp]

good luck with the conversion mate, is that supercharger off a mini cooper s?

[rix313]

Sure is

[Alex]

sounds awsome good luck with it

[Alex]

this might seem a little dumb but i dont know much about superchargers, but do you need an oil feed to it like you do with a turbo, i take it you water cool them then ?????

[rix313]

They don't usualy need to be lubricated or cooled and they don't wear out so easily like turbos do. They have very close tollerences so nothing touches but its so fine its unreal.

The Rotrex chargers (the one Appletree is using on his new build) have an oil feed but I wont need one for this charger.

The cooler I bought is to cool the air down as it comes out of the super charger so it burns better.

[Alex]

ive got ya

seems a lot easier to install than a turbo then

[rix313]

Plus you get the kick ass whine lol!

[Alex]

sounds mint dont it, what power u expected to get out of it???

might supercharge mine next year instead of m50 it, i have had a quick look into it and it sounds pretty straight forward

[appletree]

Nice project mate! if you need any help you knoe were i am!

How are you going to use the intercooler to make it in to a charger cooler???

Also if you haven't got mounts yet it msy be worth speecking to hoshy and alex to see if they could help you out with making a set.

lastly if you can i'd try and use intercooling if possible, its alot easyer and less complicated

[rix313]

Cheers

I have had a though of making adaptors for it all out of glass fibre to make it possible to connect it all up.

The cooler was £15 from the scrap yard and it is leak free but yeah see what I can come up with with my accomplice.

Can some one tell me what the techincal difference is between rads and intercoolers besides one takes air and one takes water what makes them so different?

[TomCropp]

this might seem a little dumb but i dont know much about superchargers, but do you need an oil feed to it like you do with a turbo, i take it you water cool them then ?????

the copper s charger is self lubricated its a sealed unit, you can use a intercooler or charge cooler to drop the temperature of the air going into the engine, but superchargers do no get anywhere near as hot as turbos do

[appletree]

An intercooler has larger inlets and outlets and also has larger ''passages'' between the fins to improve the flow through the core. You cant realy use a rad as an intercooler as the inlets are to small and so are the cores.

I dont think fibre glass will be strong enough for holding 5-8psi boost unless its silly thick and has metal inserts were the hoses clamp up to it. If thats were you ment using it.

[appletree]

this might seem a little dumb but i dont know much about superchargers, but do you need an oil feed to it like you do with a turbo, i take it you water cool them then ?????

the copper s charger is self lubricated its a sealed unit, you can use a intercooler or charge cooler to drop the temperature of the air going into the engine, but superchargers do no get anywhere near as hot as turbos do

My eaton used to run 70c before i put the charge cooling on, now it runs at 45c which is still very high. Idealy it realy wants a eaton M62 as the M45's abit small.

[lance1a]

this might seem a little dumb but i dont know much about superchargers, but do you need an oil feed to it like you do with a turbo, i take it you water cool them then ?????

the copper s charger is self lubricated its a sealed unit, you can use a intercooler or charge cooler to drop the temperature of the air going into the engine, but superchargers do no get anywhere near as hot as turbos do

It's not the heat developed as a result of the unit but as a result of the compression of the air itself. Eatons are reknown for producing a warm charge, and intercooling is essential. The old Lancia Rootes type chargers were not cooled and produced a mere 11 bhp over the fuel injected motors.

I think the equation is about 1 bhp for every 10 degrees temp variance, or thereabouts.

[rix313]

An intercooler has larger inlets and outlets and also has larger ''passages'' between the fins to improve the flow through the core. You cant realy use a rad as an intercooler as the inlets are to small and so are the cores.

I dont think fibre glass will be strong enough for holding 5-8psi boost unless its silly thick and has metal inserts were the hoses clamp up to it. If thats were you ment using it.

How about an intercooler as a rad? surely I could put a restrictive pipe on the outlet to stop the water shooting through too fast?

Noted about the GF was just a spare of the moment thought. Gonna need a bit of a brain storm for coming up with something to take the charge from the super charger.

[robbo86]

Plus you get the kick ass whine lol!

going to sound a bit sad here, but nothing beats the charger whine of the supercharger on the v12 merlin powering the P51 mustang......

sorry plane nut moment over

good luck with your engine, like the idea of supercharging but its a tad on the expensive side

[rix313]

My fav S/C sound was a SLR 722 noise it made just bounds ya chest luverly.

It is looking to cost a fair bit but I'd only waste it away on something else and this will really help my mechanical career (I hope lol)

[appletree]

Jk used carbon fibre on his build in my old thread. Some people just cut a plate to match the charger and then weld a pipe stub on it so you can then use normal pipework.

You could i supose use an intercooler as a rad, but whats up with the rad in your car at the moment? You normaly put your intercooler in front of your rad.

[rix313]

I'm gussing you can piggy back off of the main rad for the charge cooler? That correct?

I'm going to look at using the intercooler as an intercooler and have a play.

[e30_singh]

Some advice.

1. Get your hands on two mini digital thermometers, the ones with a probe on wire.
2. Place one away from the engine and manifolds, not too close to the road either, this thermometer measures the surrounding temp
3. Drill a small hole into an intake pipe close to the throttle body and place one probe here.

4. Place both LCD displays inside the car somewhere around the drivers cluster.
5. Watch the outside temp and the temp of the air going into the car and see which setup works best.

A small front intercooler will be fine for this setup, (search for a 2wd cossie intercooler)you do not need one as big as the radiator. Also the less pipework you have the shorter distance the air needs to travel. So keep everything tight and on the shortest route possible.

Fit a recirculating dump valve, to release excess pressure that otherwise would charge back to the supercharger.

You can also get an atmospheric pressure switch to operate the electromagnetic clutch on the supercharger if it has one, otherwise wire this into the ignition.

Also buy silicone hoses for the joints and bends with jubilee clips, theres no point bodging a conversion and having boost leak.

mad man rant over

[rix313]

Noted

Thinking about a scoop in the bonnet and mounting it on top to reduce how far the hoses have to go

[e30_singh]

Mount the intercooler you have in the above posts, near the passenger side wing with a surround and have a vent cut out forcing air into the wing, that way its still subtle.

[appletree]

No you can't use the engine water supply for charge cooling it would more than lightly warm the charge air up. It needs its own resivoir, pump, cooling radiator (i used a jag xkr charge cooler rad that is as big as my rad) for this set up to work properly.

Have you though about where your having the throttle body? Upstream or downstream?

Have you read through my old build thread? Might give you some ideas an answer a few questions.

[e30_singh]

Have you though about where your having the throttle body? Upstream or downstream?

I thought about this but it involves quite a bit of work, i have seen setup's where the TB is about 5-6inches away from the intercooler outlet.

I can see how this should help as the TB is right next to where all of the air is coming from, but it still needs to travel to the inlet, the only major thing this may affect is keeping the air temp down.

Also heat wrapping the manifold will keep engine temps down, you can even heat wrap the inlet pipes because the material works as a heat deterent as well as an insulator.

Supercharging is fun and far more straight forward than Turbo power, but power gains will not be as powerfull as a turbo. Superchargers give a smooth power curve, right from the word go. This makes the cars engine feel bigger than what it is, so if its a 318is it will feel like a 2.5i

[appletree]

I ran mine infont of the inlet to the chrager so when the throttles shut the charger is in vacume which is a bit more work but you dont need a dump valve and it makes the car smoother to drive and less snappy on/off throttle

both ways work with only slightly different results but i would say to put the throttle infront would be the more difficult of the two to do especialy if your doing a budget build

[rix313]

We're having our first team meeting to discuss all this gubbins and how we're going to set up all the super charger etc.

Gearbox arrived the other day so thats in the garage along with some new wing mirrors.

Next thing I'm buying is new clutch assembly and front poly bushes.

As for exhaust wrap we do plan to put it on to help things along.

[rix313]

Got the car love it lol, everything clunks and the whole car vibrates feels like a proper track car lol very raw. Pics when I'm home in the day light.

Going to go for having the TB downstream from the Charger and having a recirc valve, can get Forge ones through work at an awsome price so going for that option.

Was given the go ahead to 'knock something up' out of Carbon Fibre at work 'in my own time' so been experimenting with making Carbon Fibre pipe work and hose adaptors so that could be interesting will post up what I do etc.

Getting the fly wheel lightened through hongkongfuey.

[e30_singh]

get some pictures up, and a video would be nice

[rix313]

Borrowing the birds camera today

[hoshy]

have you thought about what you'll do for connecting up to the tb? - it's such a funny shape. still a problem for me to be honest.

also - what particular valve are you gonna use? I might be interested in one as I'm still using a shitty plastic bosch thing at the moment and it doesn't flow enough.

[appletree]

Hoshy if you look on ebay you can get a 3 1/4" or some odd size reducer to 3"/ 2 1/2"/ 2" that fits perfect! mine came from tokyo an fits perfect just measure round the TB with some string then measure it and work out the dia of the reducer you need

just looked think mine came from "zena racing" ( some of its rubbed off) mine was in metric when i measured it but it looks like 76mm (pipe work) - 88mm (TB)

Hope that helps

Rix313 - could you do a group buy on these dump valves?? ive got a forge recirc piston type but i need a large atmospheric one this time round

[rix313]

Maybe, One of the stores men at work is chums with some one who knows lol can ask the question.

What I'll do is post up in the group buys section and see how many people want them.

Got some pics of the car today:

[TomCropp]

looking good chap!

[rix313]

Righty. Not much has gone on really, purchased the new clutch, got some braided goodridge clutch hoses on order, just need the box out, fly wheel off for lightening then new box and see if it works.

Update on the carbon fibre: I was looking at making up pipe work from carbon fibre as it can be made as strong as I need it, its light etc. (you know the score its carbon it rules lol), but sadly a bulb pinged in my head and I realised that the charge is going to be 100 degs/C minimum; the carbon fibre is baked at 80degs/C meaning the resin is likely to melt and sod it all up. I'm sure it can be made to withstand the heat but I was using off cuts from work and don't fancy buying specialist stuff but will investigate further, if any one has any info please le me know.

Still looking at making carbon pipes for the air intake as I'm planning on routing the air filter on the passenger side.

Hopefuly getting a good deal on SFS hoses too.