LPG Installation Help

[jon_d_h]

Heres what it looks like under the glove box:



Still cant see where the wires could get through

[Brianmoooore]

Through the big rubber grommet - there are various extra cut outs in it.
Looks like wiring might be the least of your worries though, with that orange stuff there!!

[jon_d_h]

Looks like wiring might be the least of your worries though, with that orange stuff there!!

That was the bolt holding the glove box on. It snapped off when I tried unscrewing it! Il sort that out next time im down there

[Brianmoooore]

I'm afraid that goes much further than the bolt for the glovebox!

[jon_d_h]

Where do you think its coming from? And how can I get to it?

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

The area under the scuttle, which gets water into it through the grills on the scuttle panel, has three drains - the infamous 'elephant's trunk' under the bonnet, and a drain channel at each end, which exits behind the wheel arch liner, under the front wings.
The bottom of this channel is formed by two sheets of metal forming a Y shape, with the tail of the Y being made of the two sheets welded together. If the sealant in the Y shape fails, water gets down between the two sheets, resulting in what you have.
The cure involves cutting away ALL of the rusty metal, then welding in and rustproofing new, in some very difficult places to work.

[jon_d_h]

Ok, il get onto that, Not having any rust take over my car! How can i locate this Y bit where the 2 pieces are welded together?

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

The middle of the Y shape is where the metal curves towards you at the top of your pic.
The rust can get into the metal around the large rubber grommet, and extend outwards into the rear of the wheel arch area.
Work on the assumption that you can see about 15% of the actual total rust.

[jon_d_h]

Ok. stripped the whole car out and removed the carpet. I removed the grills on top of the scuttle and had a look inside and they look fine and the drains arnt blocked. How do i get to the rust though?

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

Post up some pics of the whole of the rusty area.

[jon_d_h]

Ok, back to the LPG installation, I have made the laptop interface. On the RS232 serial plug, there is TX, RX and GND. Is TX the transmitted data pin 3 and RX the Recieved data pin 2. And GND is pin 5? If I wanted to test the Leonardo and the interface on a bench with a laptop, would I need to power it up with 12v to the red and red/black wires?

I have decided to drill a new hole for the Leonardo loom to go through the bulk head with a gromet so will be hopefully wiring that up shortly.

Cheers

[jon_d_h]

The wiring wont go through the bulkhead what so ever! Can the Leonardo be put by the battery tray as my battery is in the boot?

[Brianmoooore]

The grommet under the fusebox is about 3" across! Just about big enough to feed the whole ECU through.
Pick a suitable spare cut out in the grommet, then cut the grommet to the edge. Feed the loom through, then repair the cut with 'superglue'. The repair will be as strong as the surrounding rubber.
The warm, dry interior of the car is a far preferable environment for the ECU and its connectors than the underbonnet area.

[handpaper]

No need to cut the grommet at all - use the 1" round punch-out at the bottom right (looking from inside the car) and pass the stepper motor plug and wire ends out through it.

[jon_d_h]

Will these parts be ok for my car? I am unsure if the mixer will be ok as it may not have the correct power handling capability.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0308354507

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LPG-conversion-ba ... dZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-BMW-316- ... m153.l1262

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

630 X 220 tank is OK, but doesn't exist in my Stako list!! Also a 630 X 220 would be quite a bit bigger than 44 litre.
600 X 220 exists, and is 47litre, and the nearest size in 630mm diameter is 225 high, which is 50 litres.
The filler shown (French type) uses an adaptor to fit UK pumps, which could cause problems if you are intending to get a certificate for this installation.

Backfire valve appears to be the correct one for a 325.

Mixer plate is listed as for a 1.6 - 1.8 litre, which, as you say, may tend to limit top end power. IIRC, the narrowest part of the venturi needs to be about 35mm in diameter for a 325.

Set the Leonardo to indicate if the mixture goes weak, and see what happens under full load.

[jon_d_h]

Right, been buisy so havent been doing much on the LPG.

Backfire valve appears to be the correct one for a 325.

So a 70mm diameter one is the size I need.

Still cant decide on a mixer.

This one might be ok but might not fit in the air box.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-3-0l-3-5l-LPG ... 240%3A1318

Or this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Opel-For ... 240%3A1318

Where did you get yours from as I am finding it hard to get the right one. What is the maximum size.

Also, ive heard LPG is going up in price whilst petrol is going down which has put me off abit. I dont know if this is true. Has anyone got anything to say to reasure me that I should go ahead

Cheers

[johnlouis]

what? I thought you would be in it for the environment?
seriously though, LPG is still 55p/l and petrol 99.9p/l so a fair difference...

persevere with it, its gaining in popularity thus will increase the value of your car...

[Brianmoooore]

The price of LPG is falling at the moment, but isn't subject to the fierce competition that petrol is, with Supermarkets selling probably below cost at the moment.
Give it a month or two, and the status quo will be re established.

[jon_d_h]

Ok cheers

What about the choice of mixers, I want to source all the parts before I start fitting it.

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

I suggest you contact the supplier direct, and some other suppliers, re the mixer plate, and ask for suggestions.

[jon_d_h]

Ok, Il have a look. Where did you get your mixer from?

Another question, as the system has to be air tight so that the gas can't get in the car, where are the options on where I can put the filler? I dont want to cut the mtch rear bumper or put a tow bar on it. I have heard that someone has put the filler behined the number plate but I thought it couldnt go in the boot as then it wouldnt be air tight. Or maybe I could mount it on a bracket under the car with a flexiable pipe and when I want to fill it, the bracket can swing down and become visiable. Can iI use flexiable pipe?

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

The place I bought my original kit (including mixer) has long since ceased trading. All that I've bought since have been second hand from ebay and other places.
The back end of the filler can be in the boot, AS LONG AS it's enclosed in a rubber boot, and the filler pipe (can be a flexible or 8mm copper) is also enclosed in a flexible outer pipe that either goes down through a hole in the boot floor, or, in the case of a cylinder tank in the boot, goes to the air tight box on the tank valve, and then via another flexible pipe, containing the wiring and the tank outlet pipe, down through the boot floor.

[jon_d_h]

Ok cheers.
So if I was to have a numberplate surround so that the numberplate can be taken out easily. Can the filler mount behined it onto the chasis so the number plate can be removed and the gas get filled from there? How would I make it air tight on the boot side where the filler is? I dont see how the flexiable pipe could attach to the inside of the filler. Dont supose you have a pic of the inside of your boot at the back of the filler? I see yous has been mounted next to the petrol cap so i would have thought the same would apply. Do you have the plastic flexiable pipe going out your boot, under and then through into the tank?

[Jon_Bmw]

Have a look on my thread as to where I located mine. You would 100% not know its there. Logistically a bit more difficult to fit than behind the number plate, but not rocket science. Seeing as yours is a sport you cannot mount it in a place where it is visable as it will devalue it two-fold!

The battery in the boot might be a pain if you want to mount it on the Offside( I find more LPG filling points have it on the OS) so you could go with the NS?

[jon_d_h]

Good job that mate. I've read through that a few times before. Your filler is in a good place but as you said, I dont really want to cut any of the body work. Have you any other ideas? I was thinking about a quick reliese bracket that could swing down behined the bumber when I need to fill it. I was unsure if this would be ok to pass the tests. Either that or behined the numberplate.

Cheers

[Jon_Bmw]

But if you mount behind the number plate, you'll be cutting anyway?

Where mine is mounted, there is a vent which lets water from the sunroof drains(i presume) exit the car. The cutout for this is large enough for the filler anyway, so very little cutting needs to be done(you need to do this so that you can get the LPG filling nozzle on the filler! If you got really clever, i'm sure you could do it without any cutting at all.

[jon_d_h]

But if you mount behind the number plate, you'll be cutting anyway?

The filler will be behined the numberplate so cannot be seen from the outside. Thats the main thing I want, is that the filler cannot be seen and that i dont want to cut the mtec bumber. Is the cut out on yours through the bumber so you can see the filler?

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

Look in 'Filling entry's' on here: http://www.wtv-uk.co.uk/ 9th or 10th pic down is what you need, along with 30mm vent hose.

[Jon_Bmw]

Stupid me I forgot a tech 2 bumper is different. Does it still have the plastic moulding on it? I don't think it does?

If so, mine is hidden by the plastic moulding, i just take it off everytime I fill up. The clips are lasting ok at present.

[jon_d_h]

Look in 'Filling entry's' on here: http://www.wtv-uk.co.uk/ 9th or 10th pic down is what you need, along with 30mm vent hose.

I see what you mean. They look good and I should be able to fit it behined the number plate. Would a bracket under the car than can move down when I need to fill up be a good idea? Would this pass the tests?

Does it still have the plastic moulding on it?

No, so I cant do it. So yours is behined the plastic, thats a good idea but I cant use it. Im going to pick up a tank, copper pipe, soleniod and filler to start fitting the back end today. Which would you think is better, behined numberplate or under the car?

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

If I had a saloon running on LPG, I'd definitely have the filler behind the number plate. Absolutely ideal place for it.
My first conversion had the filler on the towbar, but I soon got fed up with having to connect the filling hose up down there, and relocated the filler to just behind the petrol flap.

[jon_d_h]

Ok, Got the new tank and a filler like the one in the pic on the website you told me.

This is a pic of the back of the filler. It was on a 4 hole tank and was linked to the tank with a large black flexiable hose. How would I pipe in from the filler to the tank? 8mm copper pipe or is there flexiable that can be used?



Just to make sure, is it definatly a 70mm backfire valve I need like on a landrover?

I saw at the scrap yard a car with flexiable pipe from the tank to the front. Is this ok to use or is 6mm copper pipe used?

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

Pipe from the filler to the tank can either be a flexible or 8mm copper, but there isn't a lot of room for the flexible in the middle of a toroidal tank with a multivalve. I have a flexible from the filler, but it changes to 8mm copper just before it goes into the vent tube from the tank.
The backfire valve fits on the outlet side of your air meter - the female end fits over the place where the air hose fitted on the AFM, and then the air hose goes on the male end. Measure the diameter of your AFM (where the hose fits) to confirm.
6mm black PVC covered copper pipe is the norm. to use from front to back, but I've just bought a ready converted BMW which has the flexible pipe. Can't really see any advantage in the stuff, but I've found a disadvantage - I wanted to depressurise the line, and it took about ten minutes to empty after I'd cracked open a joint in the boot. Had puddles of boiling propane on the boot floor!!! Smoking not recommended!

[jon_d_h]

Ok, fitting the tank now, there is a pipe that goes through the floor of the wheel well. Can I use seam sealer or silicon sealer to seal between the outside of the pipe and the wheel well cut out or is there spiecal stuff to be used?

Look in 'Filling entry's' on here: http://www.wtv-uk.co.uk/ 9th or 10th pic down is what you need, along with 30mm vent hose.

I have identically the same as pic 9 or 10 if I use bits of my other filler with the one pictured above. If I would be using 8mm copper pipe, how would the rubber boot seal onto the 8mm copper pipe? Or can I use any lpg hose to seal it that end as above then drill a hole in the boot and seal it that end with seam sealer?

Cheers