e30 Brakes question.

[Karan]

hmmm on my silvia i removed the reducing valve and i use a fair few of the settings on mine.,..

its to do with front/rear brake/tyre temp disparities

[AlpineAde]

Cool. I haven't really thought about rebuilding the callipers. How much work is that. What are symptoms of them requiring a rebuild?

Calipers are no biggie.

Signs of a need to look at them would be something like the car pulling to one side under braking which could indicate a binding issue.

[oldbimmer]

Cool. I haven't really thought about rebuilding the callipers. How much work is that. What are symptoms of them requiring a rebuild?

I got rebuilt calipers from ECP, a new ATE master cylinder (standard), new hoses, and raised the brake pedal. Perfect..

I'd like to try the E32 mod but not sure if you can do this to non ABS cars?

BTW, to find ATE power discs on the ECP site, you need to look under "Accessories" and you'll see them listed as "Power Discs" They are not listed under the brake disc section for some reason..

[essfourteen]

I have always gone with the stock BMW disc as there is nothing out there that works any better.. and you can return them to your friendly BMW parts manager for a swap if you are 'unhappy' with them.

The standard caliper is fine if it is working as it should - it can be improved upon greatly by binning the neoprene bushes for soild ones and by doing a 6 hose braided conversion.

Pads need to be heat cycled and bedded in properly otherwise they will fade and crumble away.

All you need is a properly working braking system and a good straight forward competition pad.

You don't need fancy discs or funny coloured fluid to stop any quicker or last without fading - just give the standard system a thorough overhaul and make sure everything is working smoothly.

[shorty73]

Cool. I haven't really thought about rebuilding the callipers. How much work is that. What are symptoms of them requiring a rebuild?

I got rebuilt calipers from ECP, a new ATE master cylinder (standard), new hoses, and raised the brake pedal. Perfect..

I'd like to try the E32 mod but not sure if you can do this to non ABS cars?

BTW, to find ATE power discs on the ECP site, you need to look under "Accessories" and you'll see them listed as "Power Discs" They are not listed under the brake disc section for some reason..

I've got the E32 M/C on my race car. As Alpine Ade has said it make Heel & Toeing much easier as theres less pedal travel.

You can use it with out ABS as I junked my ABS as it weighs a tonne. Just fit a 3 way block for the two front lines. Easy! Two braided lines from there to the calipers.

Ive also got the Tilton BPV. Junked the standard regulator and just use this.

Fronts have now got Wilwood four pots and 280 mm discs. If you can afford it then do it. Best mod so far.

I've noticed that EBC are now doing calipers. Looks like they rebuild and zinc plate them. Maybe worth a look.

http://www.brakes4u.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CAL50143

[djs325]

The standard valve is not a reducing valve, it is a maximum pressure (cap) valve. Its operation stops any increase in rear brake line pressure beyond a certain point.

The point of installing the Tilton Valve (I'm using knob type not lever type) and removing the BMW Valve is to increase the rear brake pressure, but allow 'trimming' of the proportional increase in rear brake pressure. Hard to explain, but check - http://www.tiltonracing.com/content.php ... &id=36&m=b - for info. Check the .pdf files for installation instructions and a chart showing how the adjustment works.

The important thing with the Tilton Valve is to remove the rear brake line max pressure valve located on the rear brake line, either under the booster or on the firewall. This valve limits the pressure to the rear brakes, kind of like single channel ABS. By replacing with a Tilton valve, you can vary the amount of rear brake pressure proportionately to the front brake pressure

I was wondering about this, surely if you are fitting an adjustable valve you are doing so to allow yourself to reduce the rear braking pressure you currently have. So by removing the standard reducing valve you automatically have a higher braking force at the rear thus limiting the number of settings you can realistically use on the adjustable bias valve. On my adjustable lever there are 7 settings from 0 to 57% reduction, without the standard valve in place the first two or three settings will probably still be giving me more rear bias than usual, so it's only there last 4 or 5 settings which are of any use.

[shorty73]

People often get a proportioning valve and bias adjustment confused.

With bias you can have more pressure on the rear than the fronts. With a bpv you can't. They can be equal but not more.

As in the above post you don't need fancy brakes for trackdays etc just good working ones.

[Theo]

So what's the logic in removing the standard maximum pressure valve then when installing the proportioning valve?

[Jhonno]

so you can run more rear brake pressure, but not unlimited..

[Theo]

Hmm, can't say i've ever had the urge for more rear brake pressure on track, then again it has larger rear discs/calipers than standard I suppose.

I'll keep the standard valve in place at first and see how it is.

[shorty73]

Wet weather? Less weight transfer in the wet so the rear brakes are doing more of the work........ but don't take my word for it I'm sh*t in the wet!

If your racing and the back end gets lighter (fuel) or the rear grip changes (wear) you can click off a notch to compensate.

The standard valve is for average everyday situations and joe average driving. Like any performance mod it's up to you if you need it or not. Just another parameter to change like camber,ride height ,anti roll bars etc.

As I said before, for trackdays it may be unnecessary but for racing any advantage is a bonus.

[Theo]

Interesting theory with the wet weather. I find when it's wet you're more likely to lock a rear because of the light rear end. You actually increase your braking pressure when it's wet!?

[Theo]

BTW, i'm talking about the merits of keeping the standard valve in place with the adjustable one fitted further down the brake line, not standard vs adjustable.

[shorty73]

Interesting theory with the wet weather. I find when it's wet you're more likely to lock a rear because of the light rear end. You actually increase your braking pressure when it's wet!?

I'm increasing pressure but not more than standard, probably closer to standard as I run very little pressure in the rear due to the 4 pots in the front. They lock up easy in the dry as the rear end of my car is only 430ish kilos. I increase the rear to somewhere near normal I imagine.

If that makes any sense! I think I was advised to lose the standard valve on the rallying forum. Had no ill effects so far.

[N00b]

I have always gone with the stock BMW disc as there is nothing out there that works any better.

Interesting, if not a little controversial.
Do you believe that parts such as the ATE disc that so many people here recommend are something along the same lines as the K & N filter "craze", in that it's something that the majority advocate even though in reality it offers nothing over the OEM part?

[Brian28]

Except a much better price (trade at least, not sure about retail), can more or less treat them as disposable items.

[oldbimmer]

I have always gone with the stock BMW disc as there is nothing out there that works any better.

Interesting, if not a little controversial.
Do you believe that parts such as the ATE disc that so many people here recommend are something along the same lines as the K & N filter "craze", in that it's something that the majority advocate even though in reality it offers nothing over the OEM part?

Brian28 makes a good point - ATE power discs are pretty cheap, so you can afford to replace them regularly. Not that you will need to - they are very good quality IMO and stand up to track work very well. They are also grooved, which may have a beneficial effect over and above standard discs. Don't forget ATE are an OEM supplier to BMW..

Can't argue with the quality of BMW discs though. I use them on my E36 M3 (road car) as nothing else seems to come close in terms of performance and longevity.

[handpaper]

I don't know about ATE 'Power' discs, but I've fitted three sets of 'OE grade' ATE discs and they were all crap. All three sets hardened unevenly, causing major judder, one warped measurably and one cracked. None of them lasted even as long as a set of pads.
The BMW discs took much more abuse, outlasting a set each of Pagid RS29s, Mintex 1155s and Ferodo DS2500s. One disc did eventually crack, but they remained effective and judder-free up until then.
The ATE discs are just over 20 pounds each, OE BMWs just over 30.

[fuzzy]

i know ate power discs and pads are sh1te if you have decent power. faded on the first hard use , developed a wobble and were quickly binned.

[oldbimmer]

i know ate power discs and pads are sh1te if you have decent power. faded on the first hard use , developed a wobble and were quickly binned.

What brakes do you use??

I would imagine stopping a 330BHP E30 at speed is no mean feat

[caneswell]

Standard BMW discs will be fine along with decent pads and fluid.

I wouldn't bother with any aftermarket discs especially not the drilled one as they seem to crack.

For decent pads see any of the proper Pagid RS ones. I've have RS29s with standard discs on my M3 and have done 3 back to back sub 9 minute 'ring laps this year without them fading.

They are better than DS2500s which didn't enjoy a full day at Donnington. EBC, ive heard too many stories to ever go near the reds and greens....although people do say the Yellows are actually preoper pads.

A bigger master cylinder will only improve pedal feel it won't make the brakes any better. In fact you will have to push the pedal harder, to get the same effect. But a nice firm pedal is always handy when hurtling towards Armco.

Maybe try the Bimmerworld Solid Brass Caliper bushings to improve feel a little too. I have them on mine.

[hoshy]

Standard BMW discs will be fine along with decent pads and fluid.

I wouldn't bother with any aftermarket discs especially not the drilled one as they seem to crack.

For decent pads see any of the proper Pagid RS ones. I've have RS29s with standard discs on my M3 and have done 3 back to back sub 9 minute 'ring laps this year without them fading.

They are better than DS2500s which didn't enjoy a full day at Donnington. EBC, ive heard too many stories to ever go near the reds and greens....although people do say the Yellows are actually preoper pads.

A bigger master cylinder will only improve pedal feel it won't make the brakes any better. In fact you will have to push the pedal harder, to get the same effect. But a nice firm pedal is always handy when hurtling towards Armco.

Maybe try the Bimmerworld Solid Brass Caliper bushings to improve feel a little too. I have them on mine.

Caneswell - are you pete o'connor's mate?

[Albinojay]

I'm not a fan of drilled discs, quite common for them to crack like that at the drilled holes.

Happened on my old Rallye.

[N00b]

Can anyone recommend a braided line kit for the standard caliper setup?

[fuzzy]

discs like ebc are dimpled now instead of straight through drilling to help prevent cracking.

[gooner1]

Can anyone recommend a braided line kit for the standard caliper setup?

Goodridge.

[N00b]

Can anyone recommend a braided line kit for the standard caliper setup?

Goodridge.

Something like this?

http://www.xlraceparts.com/bmw-e30-brak ... -753-p.asp

[hoshy]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here but the ABS/non-ABS thing is a bit misleading on these kits. I think you need the "ABS" 6-line kit if you have rear disks - nothing to do with ABS or not??

[N00b]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here but the ABS/non-ABS thing is a bit misleading on these kits. I think you need the "ABS" 6-line kit if you have rear disks - nothing to do with ABS or not??

I'm clueless on this issue. I've done plenty of engine transplants/head rebuilds etc but I've never aeroquipped a car before so I'm not completely sure how to go about it.
I'd like all of the lines to be braided, so am I right in thinking that a 4 line kit just does the front and the 6 line does all 4 corners?

[BadDave]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here but the ABS/non-ABS thing is a bit misleading on these kits. I think you need the "ABS" 6-line kit if you have rear disks - nothing to do with ABS or not??

I'm clueless on this issue. I've done plenty of engine transplants/head rebuilds etc but I've never aeroquipped a car before so I'm not completely sure how to go about it.
I'd like all of the lines to be braided, so am I right in thinking that a 4 line kit just does the front and the 6 line does all 4 corners?

Logic suggests a 6 line kit is needed for those with rear disks as the rear calipers move,Whereas a rear drum setup can get away with a solid line on the trailing arm as the rear wheel cylinders are rigidly fixed,hence unable to move.

The 4 line kit should bereplacements for the front's and the 2 lines above the rear beam

HTH

[fuzzy]

2 lines are used on the front and 4 on the rears on a rear disc set up.

[N00b]

2 lines are used on the front and 4 on the rears on a rear disc set up.

How does that work?
I've only seen 4 or 6 line kits so that would mean you either do the rear or the front and rear.

[fuzzy]

4 lines for drum brake set ups, 2 front+ 2 rear. 6 lines for disc set ups 2 front + 4 rear iirc.

[N00b]

4 lines for drum brake set ups, 2 front+ 2 rear. 6 lines for disc set ups 2 front + 4 rear iirc.

Ahhh, thanks.
So basically if the car has discs all round you only have the option of the 6 line kit. Does this mean all the abs/non-abs descriptions are just long winded ways of saying disc+drum /disc+disc?

[BadDave]

4 lines for drum brake set ups, 2 front+ 2 rear.

The 2 rear ones are for over the rear beam,above the fuel tank. They connect to rigid pipes that go to the rear wheel cylinders.

The 6 line kit has 2 for the front.
2 for above the rear beam and 2 that connect to the rear calipers.

HTH