Production BMW Cup

[E30BeemerLad]

OK so those in the know....

What is the average cost of getting a vehicle on the grid?

Is it more economic to buy a vehicle which has already been prepped? Do cars which are/have been competing in the championship come up for sale and if so, where are these usually advertised?

Just trying to get some basic figures down for this as I am genuinely interested in this and will be looking to tap my boss up for sponsorship but need some meaningful figures for what it cost to have a car on the grid and what rough costs of a season are?

Any help you can give would be appreciated.

thanks
Lee

[Ollie_bwoii]

There was a program on a littl ewhile ago with about about the performance bmw championship (I think it was this one) and they said its a great entry to motorsport and costs from around £8,000 a year including car and parts etc.....

Sorry if this is rubish its just from memory!

[Jon_Bmw]

Lee I also am very keen, but due to my last year at uni its finacially unviable let alone having enough time to do it! I'm quite keen to enter in 2010 though. Have a search under Brian28's recent posts, he put up a link to their site which gives you the build regulations and will give you an idea of costs. I think the main costs are all the safety equipment as you'll build it yourself I presume?

Also sign onto seloc.com as well, thats where it all originated. I think it could be done for as little as <£2000 or as much as £10,000 if you get anal.

If we both do it, we could relive the bumper cars all over again!

[E30BeemerLad]

well if my gaffer won't sponsor this will be dead in the water.

I've registered on the forum for the series and will do some more reading tonight. I am realistic on the costs as there is no such thing as "cheap motorsport" having previously held a competition licence as a young'un and there are many more costs than merely the car sat on the grid such as your own safety gear, cost of acquiring licence etc, plus travel costs, accomodation etc etc .

Even doing Kart racing at british championship level for a year saw my old man speding £50+k for me and my brother to run at championship level, it's scary.

I would doubt you would see a competitive season at the front for under £10K

[E30BeemerLad]

http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/index.htm

[kimbo]

It's always cheaper to buy a ready prepped car than to start from scratch - as long as you buy the right car and dont re-work too much of it when you get it!
Secondhand PBMW cars are usually available on the SELOC site, as previously mentioned.
£5 - 6000 will buy you a top notch one (possibly less with a bit of haggling).
Trust me, you will NOT build from scratch for that sort of money, unless you've got a suitable donor car already sitting on the drive.

Kim.

edit: p.s. good luck with the sponsorship, but dont be holding your breath while you wait for an answer!!

[shorty73]

Theres 3 on the Seloc site a bit less than your talking. Get yourself registered and have a butchers.

JimmyC will be along soon as he is the main promotional man for all things PBMW.

Tyres and entries will be the biggest cost with accomodation and travel being regular weigh outs. You can sleep in a tent for free get yourself in the local Travel Lodge for about £30 or book youself in "Le Ponce" Hotel for an arm an a leg You pays your money........

Get your self a decent motor and look after it and you should see a reliable season. Might want to keep some cash aside for spare panels though as the mid pack can get a bit "close" at times.

I run in the sister TTRS series which also lets the Proddies run as Class F cars. You'll get two race's at single rounds and up to 4 at double headers (2 PBMW and 2 TTRS) so you'll get loads of tracktime for 1 lot of travel cost.
The quick boy's in PBMW hold there own although they P*** over me in the wet!

Go for it. If your going to be skint you might as well be skint with a grin on your face

[E30BeemerLad]

I've clocked those 3 for sale on the SELOC site.

Gonna wait until my boss is back next week, he's currently on holiday, on Richard Branson's island, the git

[JimmyC]

I've cross posted this from SELOC for you gives you most of the information you need to know.

Anything else drop me a line with you number and i'll buzz you back for a chat.

RE cars, I know of a car up for sale, not advertised at the mo £5k and series winning car again drop me a PM if you want details as the owner doesn't want to advertise publicly that he's selling

PBMW Getting Started and References

This thread should answer most questions that anybody starting out may have, as well as containing links to information that we feel maybe helpful to drivers old and new, kind of a PBMW Encyclopaedia.

2008 Series Information
http://www.pbmwc.co.uk contains pretty much everything you need to know, the 2008 calendar, the 2008 technical regulations, registration forms etc etc

Its is constantly updated with new information and news, so make sure you keep checking in on it for updates.

For the lazy ones here are specific links to the more commonly asked for items:

*2008 Calendar- http://www.pbmwc.co.uk (on the front page)
*2008 Technical Regulations- http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/2008_P ... ations.pdf
*2008 Registration form- http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/regs.htm

Be sure to read http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/about.htm for some background on the series

The following link is also worth a read as it details the changes we have made to PBMW for the 2008 season http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php? ... 110&page=1

If you are starting out you will need to get your MSA National B licence, details of how to get this can be found here:

http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentVi ... ticle=2586

Drivers Deals
We have worked on a number of deals over the years to help get the cost of prepping a car down for the drivers. A must read before you buy anything!

Please respect that these deals are on offer only through the stated sources and the prices should be kept confidential.

http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=165686

Toyo Tires are our tire sponsor and offer us great rates on the series control tire the R888, details of how to order can be found on this thread:
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=69660

Technical Information
The following links are to both sources we have found and also previous threads that drivers have started that frequently come up as new questions.

Check out the PBMW website on car prep: http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/prep.htm

Most commonly asked by new drivers ”aHow much will it cost?”a, there are many threads on this if you use the search function http://forums.seloc.org/misc.php?action=search

Two of the better detailed threads on this can be found here:

http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php? ... pid2869987
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php? ... 294&page=1

A good all round repair manual can be downloaded from here:

http://ee1394.com/bmw/docs/factory/repair/index1.htm

Also this is a very useful link for electrics:

http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e30/


Previous Threads that may also be of interest:

Sealing the sunroof
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=10140

Cam Belt
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=9875

Strut Sizes (suspension)
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=14165

Clutch master cylinder
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=13437

Mechanical Cut out switches
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=13434

Floppy gear-stick fix
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=12752

Horn Push wiring
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=14354

Compression tests
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=11427

Insurance
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php? ... pid3102919

If you have anymore questions just post up in the PBMW Forum

[JimmyC]

Project 8 Racing have proven that affordable racing is achievable by breaking away from the norm of using the national racing clubs.

This year we offered some of the cheapest club racing in the country, along with a small number of other clubs that share our mentatly and goals of affordable motorsport.

Race fees were, £125 for a single race (normally 15 min qually, 20min race) and £225 for a double header (1 qually and 2 races) we also visited Silverstone GP and had 1 x 20 min qually, 2 x 30 min race for £280, and SPA the same as Silverstone GP

There was a 1 off registration fee of £100 payable at the start of the season.

Tyres are the Toyo R888's that drivers get a very good price on as part of our sponsorship. £400 can see you through a full season, others replace every race (not the front runners though!!)

The ethos of PBMW is to have a damn good time whilst there too, so 90% of the field camp at the circuits and P8R with the help of one of the drivers wives (AKA wonder woman) cater at every weekend meet. And Spa also included a great night of music and kareoke- you really had to be there!!

If your looking at starting out, you will struggle to find better prices, calendar, and social paddock than PBMW/TTRS IMO- but i'm a bit biased

[steerfromtherear]

It's always cheaper to buy a ready prepped car than to start from scratch
£5 - 6000 will buy you a top notch one (possibly less with a bit of haggling).

Gonna have a regular front of the field car for less than that available soon.

Si Clasbys (car 12 iirc) 318i which routinely finishes 4th/5th and has been on the podium once or twic last season. Built from a nice solid white shell with gaz golds on and everything you need to race comptetively as his positions have shown.

Just waiting for him to pull his finger out and repair Snettertons damage and polish it all up for sale.

[Timbopbmw]

It's always cheaper to buy a ready prepped car than to start from scratch
£5 - 6000 will buy you a top notch one (possibly less with a bit of haggling).

Gonna have a regular front of the field car for less than that available soon.

Si Clasbys (car 12 iirc) 318i which routinely finishes 4th/5th and has been on the podium once or twic last season. Built from a nice solid white shell with gaz golds on and everything you need to race comptetively as his positions have shown.

Just waiting for him to pull his finger out and repair Snettertons damage and polish it all up for sale.

Hi Mike its Tim wilson , just wondering what si is going to race now??

cheers

[steerfromtherear]

Well as of my last conversation with him about it nothing. His plans are/were to pull out for a while.
Saying that I know he is struggling with the decision so he may change his mind again lol.

I think Si has some driving work lined up next year, I imagine if that becomes regular and/or leads onto other things he may find that satisfies the lead footed needs lol.

I personally think its a shame PBMW cars are worth good money as if it was just gonna sit there I could of twisted his arm to fit my m30b35. It would slot in lovely to turn that puny 318 racer into a drift/track warrior

[cragles]

Our car is completed now and cost us about £5,000 all in. It can be done cheaper, but we got a solid shell with no welding needed and only a tiny amount of rust. We also opted for a more comprehensive weld-in cage rather than a cheaper bolt in and also Gaz coilover suspension rather than cheaper seperate shocks/springs on the rear.

The engine is pretty damn solid too - only 92,000 miles and we have a full pack of BMW service history with over £7,500 of bills from the previous owners.

We are pretty much on the base weight too.

[SteMarsden]

Cragles/neilbtcc,

Im enjoying watching / reading about your build on the SELOC forum.... Im building something very similar but have a lot more hours to put in before I get anywhere near where you are....
Having an ineligable cage hasnt been a flying start!

Similarly, I reckon my build is going to cost me about £3850 but I havent gone for the comprehensive sexy looking and much (oo-er) stiffer weld-in cage...

The other thing that appeals to me about building the car is that it can be used for PBMWC, pre '93 classics, Birkett 6 hour, and even some local one-off events at Oulton / Ty Croes...

[cragles]

Yeah that's what interested us, and the fact it's competitive and cheap (as far as motorsport goes)...

Neil has his first race on November 15th at Brands. Hopefully I'll be there to support him, but the baby is due on the 12th November so I'm not promising him anything!!!

[Brian28]

Lee if you have limited mechanical experience/aptitude/facilities then its definitely more economical to buy a car that somebody else has prepped. It also gives you a good benchmark for your own performance, ie if you don't get to the previous drivers lap times then invest in some extra track time rather than throwing money at the car . It is possible to build a relatively competitive car on a very tight budget, but its only the way to do it if you enjoy time in the garage/workshop/driveway as much as on the track, also spend half your life on here/ebay/pistonheads looking for bargains. The other half won't take too kindly to that after a while. (And how do I know that ). The cheapest prepped car that I know of was on the grid for £1340 all in, but probably fair to say that is not realistic to achieve for most people and between 2.5 and 4K is a more realistic DIY build cost. If you want the best of everything then allow a lot more, some people have spent over 2k on getting an engine built. You do hit a point of dimminishing returns though which is one of the great things about the series, ie a car that costs twice as much won't be twice as fast so a budget car can still be reasonably competitive. No different to most series really, there are a huge range of car build and running costs. As Jimmy says above though, the entry fees are amongst the lowest available, so once the car is built the costs for a season are cheaper than most. Once you are on the grid you soon forget about the overdraft and credit card bills the difference between track days and racing is the same jump as between road driving and track days, like the guy from Nike says, just do it.

[Timbopbmw]

my dad has a regular top 10 finishing car for sale . look!!!!!

http://forums.seloc.org/classified.php? ... ad&id=7793

[ShakeyC]

What would the legalities be if you were to hire out a car to race on per event or season basis could this be cheaper short term solution for those new to it all? Just an idea so don't shoot me

[Timbopbmw]

Its worth asking a few people who are selling cars my dads would be available for hire!
see above! it would definatley be a cheaper easier way to get involved!

[Brian28]

What would the legalities be if you were to hire out a car to race on per event or season basis could this be cheaper short term solution for those new to it all? Just an idea so don't shoot me

Yes and no. It is cheaper if you live in central London and pay £500 a month for somewhere to store your race car, and don't have any DIY aptitude/facilities so pay somebody else £40 an hour to maintain your car. Otherwise probably not cheaper to hire, but definitely more convenient .

Just make sure if you hire that the contract has a maximum damage value, ie if you total the car you need to know the max that you will have to pay out, if its open ended you may be in for a nasty shock when the repair bill comes in. Most cars are hired on the basis you bend it you pay to get it fixed.

You can buy my brothers spare car for £2250, race it for a season, then sell it for a fat profit. That's the cheapest way to go racing . May also hire it if it doesn't sell - needs a seat and harness otherwise ready to race.