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Dave_M3
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:51 pm

In my oppinion, since you were hit on the back you had position of the road taken.
If the b!tch hit you in the front wing or took the nose off you like in Pete-Ms case.

Keep onto them anyway and don't give up your No claims :wink:

Were the police called?

Also, were you able to take photos (even if just from a crappy camera phone) of where your car ended up right after the crash and any brake marks that would have indicated she made some attempt to avoid hitting you. Tyre marks on the road from your car would help showing that you were well out onto the road and nearly leaving her path when she hit you.
M42 rightness above 6500rpm, nobody can hear you scream
Gibson
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:53 pm

No i didnt get any, i think my skid marks are still there tho. there werent any from her car, she made no attempt to miss me at all
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E30BeemerLad
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:58 pm

Pete-M wrote:That, my friend is unlucky.

I had a similar one in June..

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My P38a which cost around £200 to put back to perfect.

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The pretty much new 3 series that wiped the nose of the Rangie, and of my insurance policy. Irritating when I wasn't moving but I still got raped by the insurance company.
Those pics tell 2 stories......


1- You were turning right out of a junction, possibly with poor visibility to your right, when the beemer came along from your right and you drove forwards as it was going past you, hence why the damage starts after the front wheel arch.

2- You were turning right out of a junction as above, with your nose out from the line of parked vehicles when the beemer came along, saw your stationary battle cruiser at the last minute and swerved to the right, avoiding the front of their car hitting you but dragging the side of their car across yours.
Dave_M3
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:11 pm

That's a pity about not getting pics of when it happened but in fairness it's hard enough to stay calm and think straight in those situations without even thinkin about what would be the best angles for abit of photography winkeye

The skid marks from the rear end of your car half way across the road and being spun around to the other side of the road will be evidence enough to anybody with abit of sence that you didn't just poke your nose out as she was passing.

The fact that there is no evidence that she made an attempt to stop yet still hit you at the rear shows that she should have plenty of time to think about it... unless you had an iS of course and it just jumping out of the driveway in one leap :P



The damage to that E60 is very odd to be honest from hitting something that was stationary...
M42 rightness above 6500rpm, nobody can hear you scream
robbo86
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:20 pm

I didn't know insurance companies could admit liability on your behalf. The doris had a bash a few months back which they other driver was very cagey about, but when I turned up it seemed as much his fault as it was hers, because he had cut the corner, though he tried to get her to admit liability at the roadside. First time in a long time I have felt like hitting such a jumped up foul mouthed a-hole and his dog of a wife was no better. Worse thing was he pasted the doris' car with a courtesy car so hes obviously got a knack for it.

The insurance company told her that despite the evidence we put to them of him cutting to corner she would still have to accept liability and that was half hour after she phoned to make the claim.
Gortour
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:38 pm

And how quick is the insurance company to tell you not to admit liability...
Currently slumming it in an E46 Touring
Pete-M
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:55 pm

E30BeemerLad wrote:
Pete-M wrote:That, my friend is unlucky.

I had a similar one in June..
Those pics tell 2 stories......


1- You were turning right out of a junction, possibly with poor visibility to your right, when the beemer came along from your right and you drove forwards as it was going past you, hence why the damage starts after the front wheel arch.

2- You were turning right out of a junction as above, with your nose out from the line of parked vehicles when the beemer came along, saw your stationary battle cruiser at the last minute and swerved to the right, avoiding the front of their car hitting you but dragging the side of their car across yours.
Number 2 is the correct answer, except it wasn't parked vehicles, it was a rather large wall to the right.

Will cost me rather a lot when it comes to next year's premium - motor trade policy.

The OP's problems should be rather a lot easier to sort.
Pete-M
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:59 pm

Dave_M3 wrote: The damage to that E60 is very odd to be honest from hitting something that was stationary...
Indeed, the chap driving it swerved into the front of the Rangie to avoid hitting a Laguna that was coming in the opposite direction. Just caught the end of the bull bar. The Range Rover was stationary.

Unfortunately, 'witnesses' heard the bang and ran to see what the nasty Range Rover had done. Having said that, if I'd turned up after the event I'd have blamed the Rangie as well.

Just glad it wasn't the RR Classic - that would have upset me.
Gibson
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Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:52 pm

E30BeemerLad wrote:OK dude, all is not lost here...


Did the police attend?

The insurers may be taking too much of a simplistic view here on liability. The damage being to the offside rear of your vehicle shows you were well out of the driveway and probably mainly on the other side of the road when you were smacked.

Can you take photos of your view to your right as you are emerging from the driveway so I can get an appreciation of how far from the summit of the brow it is from the driveway.

It is correct that your brother is not an independent witness and this means not as much weight attaches to his evidene as he is biased.

I will have to do a quick bit of caselaw research on Monday but I think I may be aware of a case where it was deemed that the person who pulled out was not at fault due to the other party not being in sight when they commenced the manouvre and also due to the speed of the approaching vehicle, this caused the collision.

Tell your insurers they are under strict instructions from you not to admit formal liability whilst you are seeking legal advice on your position. Otherwise your insurers may steam in and admit liability to the other party and that leaves you high and dry.

Ok thanks i have done, they are still making noises about it being my fault but i have told them what you said. i have thrown my toys out of the pram at them this morning infact and they are being much more usefull now. is there any chance you will have found that case report, that would add some badly needed heft to my arguement!?
is there anyway i can hire you and have my legal cover on my insurance pay for it?
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E30BeemerLad
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Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:32 pm

Right, I have done a brief bit of caselaw reserach, and contrary to my expectations, I could not find a case on all fours with yours, but the overriding suggestion would be that you will be found to be upto 50% at fault. This would mean you could recover 50% of the value of your losses from her insurers and she would recover 50% of the value of her claim from your insurers. This will leave your no-claims discount affected a your insurers will have tp pay out money they cannot recover.

I would not be able to act under your legal expenses policy as it is common practice for the legal expenses insurers to only agree to indemnify a solicitor who is on their pre-approved panel. So they restrict your choice to a degree.

Having done some research, the nearest cases I can find involved a motorcyclist being in the position the thrid party was on your claim.

The case is called Dolby v Milner 1996 and it is a Court of Appeal decision, so it has some clout.

The circumstances are that the Claimant driving a car was turning right into a major road (same as you were). He had therefore been under a continuing obligation to give way. The Defendant riding a motorcycle was coming from his right. The Claimant pulled out and was struck by the approching motoryclist.

It was held that although the defendant had been travelling well in excess of the speed limit and had failed to take evasive action, the motorcycle had been visible from 95 yards away and the Claimant ought to have seen him. Liability was apportioned 75% against the Claimant car driver and 25% to the Defendant motorcyclist.
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Another case with some similarities is Hardy v Walker 1984 CA (also Court of Appeal decision).

The Claimant riding a motorcycle overtook another car on a blind corner whilst riding between 55-60mph. The Defendant driving a car was pulling out from a junction on the Claimant's left hand side. The Defendant did not stop and there was a collision. The judge held the Claimant on the bike 2/3 to blame with the Defendant in the car who had been pulling out 1/3 to blame.

The motorcyclist appealed, arguing that no matter what speed he was doing, the collision still would have occurred due to the Defendant pulling out on him. The court of appeal HELD that the appeal was dismissed. The court stated that had he been going slower, the accident could have been avoided, so the original apportionment of blame stood.

I personally think your case falls somewhere into the middle ground here, providing you have some photos showing that teh crest of the hill she has come over is very close to the driveway you have pulled from. If you have a relatively unrestricted view to your right and she would be visible for some time then you are knackered.

Make sure you take pics of the skidmarks left by your car as this shows how far out you where when hit by her,but the crux of your case is proving that when you started pulling from your driveway, having made diligent checks due to the restricted view, she was not in sight when you started pulling out.

If I do discover any other useful caselaw I shall of course let you know. If you can prove she was not in sight then you could do better than 50/50.
Gibson
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Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:09 pm

Thank you so much, this is proving really usefull. im have taken some photos of the drive/road thing i was pulling out of so you can see how obscured the visibility is. i have not managed to find any other witness's as of yet... but never mind
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Gibson
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Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:54 pm

Will get more pictures soon, for now this is the best i can do.

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