My Turbo Conversion Updates!!!

[Phill172]

Right then got photos now, sorry there off my phone again so arnt the best quality!

Yep, the flywheel i picked up has been skimmed already....

Feel like iv actually made some progress now, ill be bringing the car home next week as we need more space up at the workshop.

Ah bugger, the heads skimmed well not skimmed as such but machined.
but the block.....may have issues....

Fozzy can you enlighten me on the prymid rings??

Well here it is at the moment, iv got to work something out with the wastegate as it fouls on the inner wing, so i think ill mount the pipework vertical instead of the 90' angle toward the back of the car, makes it nice and simple to put the screamer out the wing and will give me more clearance to run the exhaust out of the wing too

[e30_Turbo]

I have done what we do on all euro engines to make the head seal. We mill down a ring around the cylinder with a cutting edge that cuts into the head. Also known as "pyramid rings" and "fire rings". Then you can boost as much as you want

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attachmen ... 1222956288

The other grooves are there so the gasket fails that way, that's serious engine mods, old skool F1 technology.

Fozz.

[Phill172]

Can you get the cylinder head modified to accept the O-Rings or is it block only?

Thanks for the info fozzy!

[Colonel Sanders]

yes you can mate, i had my head oringed and welded, at QEP.

[Phill172]

ah awesome, as iv got the head already welded so i mean, if its running O-rings on the head, is it worthwile then sticking with the standered hg? If it means pulling the whole lump out again to then get machined to use the MLS

Thanks for answering all the repeatitive questions!

[Colonel Sanders]

you cant use an mls with orings, a standard headgasket is allyou need, adn if it ever does go pop. which it can due to bad tuning, it doesnt cost the earth to fix.
cost £240 to get the head oringed, but well worth it, gave me peice of mind that it wouldnt leak

[e30_Turbo]

You can use copper rings with MLS but that's real specialist stuff.

O-ringed head with copper headgasket is the proper way but it's too much for road cars really, mostly race cars.

O-rings and stock gasket get my vote, those pyramid ones look the nuts but again it's very extreme for our goals.

P.S the info on the pyranid rings came from Andreas@PPF.

Fozz.

[ShakeyC]

Coopers, Fire and O-Rings are bit extreme and has its downsides the biggest being cost and risks. the head gasket is by nature an engineered fail-safe if something goes wrong the head gasket pops saving rest of the expensive internals to go again another day.

The problem in you application with lots of boost is that the pcp is above what the block was designed to cope with and the head will lift, with those O-rings of various types which will keep sealing with little bit of lift the waterways and oil galleries which go through the block wont be sealing as well in same situation results in something else expensive going pop ie head/valve train.

For the above reasons i like Phuzion Gaskets/Rings which the block does not need machined rings which once down you cannot go back if failure occurs block/head is scrap. The Phuzion rings are gass filed inside multi layer gasket which creates the same seal/effect as O-rings, the Phuzion rings are surrounded in silver which allows the ring to move about and to melt filling in any minute flaws to give a consistant seal across the block/head face. They are cheaper as they do not require special machining and if something goes wrong th gasket will fail saving rest of the engine.

[e30_Turbo]

the head gasket is by nature an engineered fail-safe if something goes wrong the head gasket pops saving rest of the expensive internals to go again another day.

Totally agree, thing is we need to improve over stock equipment without getting silly. MLS and studs are the commen fix but some people have issues with sealing.

The stock gasket with uprated headbolts has been known to hold 18psi, the key is the tuning of it, a part of mine that's always been a little off, due to me still learning. I've managed to survive so far on stock parts but I've blown a few, so my next step will be belt and braces, no fuking about, not sure which way yet, a mates haveing o-rings in his M50 so I'm waiting to see how he gets on.

I'm lucky to know a very respected engine builder through my work and I've approached the subject with them a few times, they have the facilities to do all the machining I could ever want so just need to pick a solution and find the money.
Phuzion rings sound interesting, not heard of them before, makes sense though.

Fozz

[Phill172]

Just read up on these gaskets.....

They sound like a good idea...

http://www.cometic.com/phuzion.aspx

if the price is good and they say they can make any gasket around....

Could be an idea, ill have a look into it and let you all know

[Gunni]

guys,

stock gasket + ARP holds 475whp.
so do stock internals.
If you plan on less then that goal, stock is FINE


http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread ... =danmartin

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread ... ght=475whp



Yea it´s like that!!!

[ShakeyC]

Honestly these Phuzion Rings are far better than all the others tried i paid £75 inc vat delivery with rings and cometic mls gasket for (4 cylinder) As with any gasket the block and head faces have to be straight.

[e30_Turbo]

Honestly these Phuzion Rings are far better than all the others tried i paid £75 inc vat delivery with rings and cometic mls gasket for (4 cylinder) As with any gasket the block and head faces have to be straight.

Direct from cometic?

Cometic are based in Colchester, just everything is made to order from th US

[Karan]

i would strongly recommend all m20 guys running 300plus start looking at twin plates as they are much much better than simgle paddle clutches that have huuuuge pressure plates to make em work. there is much less stress on all the other gear shifting components with a twin as well as the twin being much easier on the leg

[Turbo-Brown]

i would strongly recommend all m20 guys running 300plus start looking at twin plates as they are much much better than simgle paddle clutches that have huuuuge pressure plates to make em work. there is much less stress on all the other gear shifting components with a twin as well as the twin being much easier on the leg

He heee, glad you said that Karan! I was starting to think I was barking up the wrong tree seeing as everybody's getting single plate puck clutches!

[Colonel Sanders]

single plate clutch on an m20 is known to hold over 1000hp on an m20, so why would anyone need any more?

[ShakeyC]

Honestly these Phuzion Rings are far better than all the others tried i paid £75 inc vat delivery with rings and cometic mls gasket for (4 cylinder) As with any gasket the block and head faces have to be straight.

Direct from cometic?

Cometic are based in Colchester, just everything is made to order from th US

If manufactured here it would cost something stupidly expensive. I thought the UK part of Cometic was based in Shewsbury? Geography was never my strong point

[mpfletcher]

hi can any body help me out plz.... im in the middle of getin the part to turbo my 320 . av just found out about up rating my throttle bdies.. can any body help me out on the jenvey website? wot will i need to get ? cant get ma head round it all. just need some one abit more grease monkey minded to clear it up for me
cheer guys

[e30_Turbo]

Honestly these Phuzion Rings are far better than all the others tried i paid £75 inc vat delivery with rings and cometic mls gasket for (4 cylinder) As with any gasket the block and head faces have to be straight.

Direct from cometic?

Cometic are based in Colchester, just everything is made to order from the USA

If manufactured here it would cost something stupidly expensive. I thought the UK part of Cometic was based in Shewsbury? Geography was never my strong point

They are tied in with the 600 machinery group, I do work for them now and again, thought I'd got a way in for cheap parts but no, the guys I work with can't pull any strings.

I've found solid steel headgaskets in Germany but no first hand experiance is forth coming from the company, ferriday are the only uk gasket people I've found.

[Phill172]

So after some more fiddling around and removing some parts the turbo is now on!

Had to cut the wastegate pipe to move it 90d clockwise, its still quite close to the suspension turret, but at least now it fits!

Still waiting for this fecking camshaft and as soon as that is there/here I can get on and get the thing sorted

Iv booked it up with Ant for mapping and any bits im to stupid to do in Janaury so its a case of getting my arse into gear!

But anyway here we are with a better photo of it in!



Also what are peoples opinions on the vernier pullys, worth it? Alot have said no, a few have said yes.......

Thanks!

[Colonel Sanders]

i bought one for mine from ppf, and i would say its worth it with boost!!

[e30_Turbo]

If youre messing with altered deck heights and head mods it's a must.

If your stock you should be fine without, getting one just in case isn't a bad idea tho.

[Phill172]

So finally yesterday I moved the car back home from the workshop, so now I can get on with all the little bits too, like suspension and making some mounts for the intercooler.

I made a screamer pipe for the wastegate which exits out of the front wing, its only roughly in postion now and the welds need tidying but the basis of it is there!

Couple of other things to do, is to make a bracket to support the turbo and also basically a bracket sleeve??? again another one to hold the screamer pipe just before it exits the wing!

Needs some tidying but its all there!

Debating whats going to be easier for Ant, weather to haul all the wiring out, or leave it in, theres so much crap in the like the cobra alarm which somene thought fit to put on at some point!

Still undecided on what coils to use, Vectra V6 coil pack or those individual MSD ones? (Running megasquirt)
But anyway enjoy

[Karan]

single plate clutch on an m20 is known to hold over 1000hp on an m20, so why would anyone need any more?

its a driveability thing.... less pedal pressure reqd with a twin.... having used heavy singles and also twins, id have a twin everytime

[Colonel Sanders]

mines fine, a little heavyer than stock but totaly daily drivable. and its good
for 800hp with the clutch plate i have.
suppose it depends on what make you get.
im having nasty thoughts about selling mine now anyway....

[Jon_Bmw]

at the screamer pipe! That is going to scare a fair few pedestrians!

[Phill172]

haha thats the aim!!!!
exhaust will be exiting behind the front wheel, im hoping above the side repeater or it will be really low down!

[oldroydsr4]

Hi have some MSD coil packs, if you want phil. Unused, just make an offer .

[Phill172]

Hi have some MSD coil packs, if you want phil. Unused, just make an offer .

Sweet! Dont really know how much they are worth!
Let me know a price....

Anything else you got that your not telling me!

Thanks!

[Phill172]

mmmm this may be me being a dumbass, but....

Oil feeds into the turbo, do they have to run top to bottem? Ie high pressure veritcal at the very top?

Just if mines like that may cause issues to get the pipework from the turbo, can it be at say 45 degrees??

Iv come to a dead end at the moment, I need the car in the garage but im still in the finishing stages of my sisters Renault twingo (phase 1) with a 1.6 on throttle bodies!

I need to get on with welding the mounts for the IC but its pitch black when i leave work!

Im hoping to have all the cam and head parts by the end of the week, reckon I can do it all with the head in situ?

Does anyone know what the thread size is for the inlet side of the head, it hasnt got the studs, i need to use bolts for the throttle bodies, but I cant seem to find anything thats the right size.

Im starting to panick a bit as i need to get the car to Ant for the 10th Januray!

[e30_Turbo]

Top = in
Bottom = out

You would need to ask an 'expert' re if you can get away with 45'.

You just need to get the rocker shafts out, a hole in the bulkhead seems to work, you can slide the shafts backwards then, although head off would be easier

Fozz

[Phill172]

Thanks mate, think im buggered though, that wastegates got to move, as the outlet for the turbo will point straight at the wastegate....shit

ah heads coming off then, if iv got to fiddle with this wastegate placement bollocks!

wound up now!

[e30_Turbo]

you can move the housings around! But you know that don't you?

[Phill172]

litterely the stages of my face







I can move the exhaust one around, i didnt think the inlet moved.....

o its not been a good day
thanks mate!
lifeline

[e30_Turbo]

you can seperate all 3 bits, the compressor looks like it has a few bolts holding it together, undo them and rotate it to the next hole along.

You must be able to 'clock' it as some applications are at weird angles, makes them universal to a point.

Holsets mostly have v-bands, very handy.

Fozz.