M20 With M50 Management System

[BMW738]

Hi All..

Another newbie here .....Got a Question for you all!.......Hope its an original one!

Has anyone on the forum used or tried the M50 management system on the M20 at all?......non Vanos of course (M50NV)
It would have the benefits of sequential coil-on plug ignition and sequential injection with the added bonus of a MAF instead of the old power robbing VAF unit.

Maybe I've caught on to late?....Has this been tried?

Let me know folks!!!!


If not......I have a surprise for you!..........I've been busy and adapted the system to fit my M20 .....And........IT RUNS..

Will try to post the project pics up soon...

Has anyone done this before folks?

Regards

[march109]

Didn't know the m20 had a vaf, thought it was a AFM?

Only surprise will be if it makes more power than with than a M20 with maf conversion and costs less too.

[BMW738]

Hi March109..

I suppose I've "termed" the M20's aif flow meter as a "VAF" because it uses a "Vane Air Flow" flap to meter the air.
The M50 uses a streight-through Aif Flow Meter so I call it the "MAF"........Is this the correct term?

Anyway...In a nutshell......I have obtained the an almost entire E34 520I M50NV system and fitted it to my M20B23..Built a custom made cam sensor setup and made a wiring loom adaptor, and then ended up using M52TU coilpacks with a custom bracket....
I've had a couple of teething problems but since sorted it out.

[whipsey]

any photos ? wouldnt the coil packs get in the way of the manifold with this setup?

[DanThe]

Im guessing he mounted the coil packs away from the engine, connected with a normal plug lead like the iS

A dyno chart is what we want to see

[BMW738]

Hi All

I have no host for my photos at the moment, which is why this topic was posted on E30Tech some time ago.

have a look:

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63504

I dont have dyno graphs at the mo' as my car is having a bit of bodywork being done and the conversion has only just been fitted to the engine.

I'm also doing a turbo conversion, I know M50 management wont suit turbo, its purely an N/A mod that I've wanted to do, I got sick of people telling me it wont work!!

my turbo conversion...so far...:
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66388

[BMW738]

Let me know what you think Folks!!

[cypriot_boy_2k7]

very nice build goin on there

[BMW738]

very nice build goin on there

Thanks!!....which one?...lol.

Could do with some input from fellow UK members!.

[cypriot_boy_2k7]

the turbo conversion, very clean

[pacerpete]

Let me know what you think Folks!!

Wow, you must be really bored ! 10/10 for effort but wouldn't you have been better off fitting the M50 loom with the original ( M50) engine still attached ?

[BMW738]

Let me know what you think Folks!!

Wow, you must be really bored ! 10/10 for effort but wouldn't you have been better off fitting the M50 loom with the original ( M50) engine still attached ?

Bored?....only of the norm....i think the M50 system may breath a little life into the old M20..Its a better injection system! + I cant say as I've seen anyone do this before and would like to try something different.
Everyone seems to be fitting the M50 lump, yeah, I may get one in the future but have several M20 engines to play about with for now as I have 3 E30's!
Thanks for 10/10 Effort tho "pacerpete"! .

[DanThe]

You sure have spent some serious time adapting the M50 loom, just a shame you seem to be a cam short! Where abouts in staffs are you

[ha22]

So, whats economy like with the M50 management system, any improvements over the M20 system??

[BMW738]

You sure have spent some serious time adapting the M50 loom, just a shame you seem to be a cam short! Where abouts in staffs are you

Lol....Hi dan.....I'm just around the corner mate!.....PM me if you want to chat..
The loom Didn't take long at all!.....making a loom adaptor and pinout diagram was the hardest., using a 525i diagram, excel and multimeter....Treehouse Racing make M50 loom adaptors but why pay the £100+ when I can do it myself eh!...just had to chop a couple of looms up in the scrapyard for the connectors.
All I had to do was make the M50 TPS bracket / Cam sensor setup - which aint that hard using a lathe and bench drill and then a temporary coilpack bracket to fire it up!

Ha22.................I dont know what the fuel economy is like using this system as I mentioned that my bro and I are still doing the bodywork, I've got the system something like ready for a test drive now and am Very Eager to try it out....trust me.......the Forum Will Know About It.. ......when its on the road..............estimate a couple of weeks as the bodywork is extensive

[Speedtouch]

It sounds impressive, and good to hear it runs but won't the timing and fuelling be way out for an M20B23 without some chip reprogramming?

[BMW738]

It sounds impressive, and good to hear it runs but won't the timing and fuelling be way out for an M20B23 without some chip reprogramming?

Hi Speedtouch.

I have thought about this alot!......Its only recently that I've chucked the 323 in but the conversion was based with the 320 in mind..
I know only to well that it will need remapping to give the full benefit but thats the next stage..
I've tried 5 different bin files on it (E34/E36 2.0 & 2.5) with my "pocket romulator" and tunerpro but have yet to see the differences on the road etc.
I've been through a bit of R&D as you may have read on the E30tech forum and have now got it to rev "Properly"....when I say Rev.....it means I picks up "Very Quickly" indeed...I'm quite surprised myself even tho "It Is" the end-result I'm after! ....better throttle response & more power!

Regards

[Brianmoooore]

wouldn't you have been better off fitting the M50 loom with the original ( M50) engine still attached ?

Not if it was from a 2.0. A good way to use up spare M50B20 bits, IMHO.
(P.S.: I'd have told you what the TPS problem was instantly, if you'd posted on here!)

[e21Jason]

Is the ecu obd11 compatale, if so that could be a cheap way to get a programmable ecu

Jason

[Jhonno]

Wow some wrong'uns on here

Good effort though

[BMW738]

Is the ecu obd11 compatale, if so that could be a cheap way to get a programmable ecu

Jason

Hi Jason.

I dont know if the ECU is OBD2 compatible mate..Some of the wiring does go to "OBD" on the diagram but thats inside the car (could be just the "trip computer tho!), I dont have that part of the loom tho..if I had a more detailed wiring diagram, I'm sure I could hook up the wires and put an OBD port on it!?
I know that programming the ECU aint that easy but if an M50 can be remmaped, so can my system.

Wow some wrong'uns on here

Good effort though

Jhonno, what context do you mean mate?

[DanThe]

He thinks your a bit mad

[Turbo-Brown]

Don't know if this has been covered, but won't the ignition timing be horrendously under advanced for the 2v motor?

[BMW738]

Don't know if this has been covered, but won't the ignition timing be horrendously under advanced for the 2v motor?

I'm not sure about that Turbo-Brown, I do have an ajustable cam trigger setup tho which can be moved +/- 20 deg..
I doesn't half rev up fast tho!.....just hope it drives as well as it idles!

[BMW738]

Anyone know the cam specs for an M50NV at all?....I.E...cam duration & lift?...would be nice to see the difference in profiles etc..

[rocklord]

BMW738,

Any update on the M50 management system on your M20 engine.
Did you get the ignition advance MAP worked out?

[Jeltuh]

Did you install a camshaftsensor on the M20? A M50 DME will not work properly without it.

I wonder if this will work...

[rocklord]

Did you install a camshaft sensor on the M20? A M50 DME will not work properly without it.

I wonder if this will work...

If you go to the link that BMW738 posted earlier in the thread you will see that an adapter and trigger was made to install the camshaft sensor where the distributor cap on the M20 use to be.

The trick is to time the trigger so the camshaft sensor signals the DME when it is suppose to. If it doesn't, you get a fault code and the injectors will go to batch fire instead of sequential.

I've been trying to contact the ones who have been successful with this upgrade to verify when the camshaft signal is suppose to be sent.

Another thing that has to be addressed is the ignition timing. The 24V M50 engine has an ignition timing map that is retarded if used with the M20 engine. The M50 DME has to have the timing reprogrammed to be more aggressive so it will extract the most power from the M20.

This upgrade is using the engine management system from the M50NV engine, not the Vanos. The NV is not as complicated and would be wired the same as a M50 swap that many have done to the E30, minus the engine.

Hope this helps.