Could anyone tell me how to weld a diff up?

[jon_d_h]

Im thinking of welding my diff but dont know how the best way to do this is. Has anyone done this and could tell me how?

Cheers

[Bob_S]

clean it all inside and weld up the smaller gears inside the main "hub" of the diff..
if you dont like the lsd in the wet this will be twice as bad mate

[--alpina--]

If you look at the site below, someone a member of the E21 forum done it to his diff with pictures, just scroll down, its the same way in the E30...

Hope this Helps!!!


http://www.bmwe21.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... elded+diff


J

[richard-the-nutter]

you cannot use a welded diff on the road, you probably know already!
its bad enough off road got them in the landrover lockable- you have no steering

[Bob_S]

you cannot use a welded diff on the road, you probably know already!
its bad enough off road got them in the landrover lockable- you have no steering

you can, it's just nasty.. remember e30's always steer.. whether it be with the rear wheels or not

[Brianmoooore]

you can, it's just nasty.

Don't think plod would agree! Neither would your insurer, or ultimately, a coroner's court.

[murran]

you can, it's just nasty.

Don't think plod would agree! Neither would your insurer, or ultimately, a coroner's court.

yep you'll die if you weld your diff, so will your children, and your children's children. and their pet dog "fred".

p.s. your asking about welded diffs on the wrong site. most of the god fearing church going folk on here wouldnt know about such things!!

[Brianmoooore]

Your choice! Chances are it won't be me or anyone I know that you under steer into.

[stonesie]

Nearest thing i have driven was a SWB defender with a ratchet type locking rear diff, not a pleasant experiance when it locked half way round a corner... It decided it would really rather not turn that corner, lifting off the throttle un-locked the diff but thats not an option you have once the mig's been at it.


If you will be drifting the car then go ahead on a spare diff and swap them over on the day, once youve done it a few times it won't take too long to do.

[richard-the-nutter]

good cheap mod for a strip/ drift motor, thats it.
if you think people who wouldnt use a welded diff on the road are god fearing you need you head examining

[vinni]

Useing a welded diff on the road is bad news, its ok if your on a bit of land for a laff but on the road, no way. I welded a diff for someone i know and we fitted it to his touring to see what it was like as a every day drive. Some on the zone was at the stevenage meet when he turned up in the touring, it drifted really well, even at 10 mph lol but also the back end came out when he didn't want it to, but after a week or 2 all the rear bush's were fooked. So if you want to kill the rear end of your motor and yourself go a head and do it. But its really not worth it.

[murran]

i agree, its is a gash thing to do to a car your using on the road 95% of the time.
but understeer into someone is not something that'll happen. (unless your running 255 wide tyres on the back and 145s on the front, or your carrying 4 bags of cement home in your boot from b+q!)
the inside wheel will always give up its traction and hop/scrub cus its having to turn at the same rate as the outside one. its the wheel with the least amount of weight on it unlike the front ones.


advice tho, if you weld your diff.
tell your insurance it has an aftermarket lsd to cover your back.
also your mot man, so he does a decelarometer brake test insted of puttting the car in the brake rollers!

[murran]

it would hammer the bushes on the backend of a touring as its heavy at the back, unlike our e21 (the one we welded).
its not compareable to a landrover as landys are big heavy awful things that handle like a dumper truck with a flat tyre to start with, before you put the diff lock on.

[Brianmoooore]

. advice tho, if you weld your diff.
tell your insurance it has an aftermarket lsd to cover your back.

A welded diff is not a LSD, and your insurance will be void.
A vehicle with a welded diff will understeer at low speed. I've plenty of experience of driving vehicles with lockable rear diffs, and if left engaged, they push straight on!

[marcp1987]

Just to make people angry, whats the crack with an LSD and MOT time? Does I need to tell the mot tester so he doesnt muller my diff?

[stonesie]

It wouldn't muller the diff, just possibly fire the car out of the rollers and give the tester a minor heart attack.... After that your car aint passing

Tell him about it, with the diff welded he can't test the rear brakes in the rollers in the same way as he can't with a perminant 4 wheel drive like an IX so he will have to road test it using a G meter (accelarometer) to measure the braking that the car can do.

Before this road test he might also want to know the diff is welded solid.

[--alpina--]

Just fit an LSD if for road use... unless if its a track car for drifting/racing e.t.c. then thats another story.. be safe bee seen


j

[Avtovaz]

Thank you very much!

On the retro rides forum i saw someone post the same question, and i said that they were dangerous, and not to be done, everyone there good the hump with me, and it all went off a bit. I was also told i was a magasine reader who had never driven a car with one in...


My first Lada 2105 rally car had a welded diff as it was prepped as a forrest car, i wanted to go road rallying in it. Feck me what a waste of time friving the car was, spinning all the time as it was so unpredictable.

Later on, my last 2105 had an escort english lsd unit in it, that car was so predictable, so awesome.




I had a 2104 lada [ 2105 combi] on the road for a while, that was factory, and i had so much fun in it it was unreal. Defonatly i would recomend an open diff over a welded one for sure.

If you can drive sideways with an open diff, you can drive well. There are a few tricks you can do also, liek before a corner, brake hard, turn the wrong way, knock it down a gear which partialy locks the rears, straighten the steering, let the car pengilum back, and past into the corner, boot it, and let the car slide around while you give it some well earned oposite lock ;)


Every week comming home from night school welding course, id come out of st hellens, down the express way, last roundabout before the m62 one, brake down, 2nd gear car pointing the wrong way, straighen it up for the roundabout, slide it around to the first exit, and if i got it right i would hear a little " DUNK " as the rear bumper his the plastic arrow traffic ballard ;)


Onfortunatly when i got the 2105 that i then turned into a rally car, i didnt reolise that the rear was 6" longer. Bit more of a thud that time LOL!




DONT WELD YOUR DIFF PLEASE!

[papercutout]

Ignore the nay-sayers, I've got a welded diff in my E30, and have been driving fine with it since January. You can't compare driving a landy, or off-road vehicle with a locking diff to an E30 with a welded diff, you really can't!

It makes little difference on the road - a bit more understeery, not hugely, I've got TONS of grip in the dry, but its a bit touchy in the wet. If a corner is dodgy, you'll find out, if its fine, you'll never know. As a drifter, who knows there aren't any decent locking LSD's available for a reasonable amount of money for an E30, its the best option if you want to drift as a hobby, just don't forget it there. Much as I say its fine, there times it can, and will, catch you out if you push it too far. But only in the wet, and you'll be spinning, not understeering.
I can still drive as fast, and faster than 95% of the other road users out there, perfectly safely. Mind you, what does that say about everyone else?

[murran]

your doing something wrong if your spinning it all the time with the diff welded.
i found it 100% predictable with the diff welded. unlike an open diff when you have to "work" the car, carrying more speed and flick it in. even then its only a matter of a few seconds before the inside wheel spins up and you cant maintain the skid.
if the cars got enuf grunt (100bhp per ton) and its welded then you know fsho its only your lack of skill thats limiting your drifting imo.

[mrLEE30]

I can still drive as fast, and faster than 95% of the other road users out there, perfectly safely. Mind you, what does that say about everyone else?

bets please on papercutouts age

ill have a large amount on the 17-21 age group

[Brianmoooore]

Much as I say its fine, there times it can, and will, catch you out if you push it too far. But only in the wet, and you'll be spinning, not understeering.

And you consider that acceptable?????
I'm not betting against you mrLEE!

[topi]

Hahaha. You pub talk pros.

My first car, which I drove for a year without any scare, was a 2.0 Sierra (which would obviously handle WORSE than an E30), stripped out with a welded diff. If you have even HALF a brain, it's not hard to work out that the car will be slightly understeery on INITIAL turn-in. So maaaaybe, if you thought about it long and hard enough, you'd figure that it would be a bit safer if you used a slow-in, fast-out approach to your 'spirited' driving.

It's like going from high performance Yoko trackday tyres, to budget Nankang ditch finders. You know the tyres are crap, so you don't drive like you would on the Yokos. Fairly simple if you ask me?

[Jon_Bmw]

Agreed MrLee

So you have to drive slowly everywhere. Perfect.

Great for drifting, little use for anything else.

[topi]

Not slow, just don't wang it into corners at full tilt. Once you've got it loaded up into the corner then do what you want with the accelerator.

It's just a different approach to the driving, like driving on different tyres...


I guess if you don't have the ability to feel what the car is doing and drive accordingly, don't use a welded diff. Infact, go and buy an Impreza.

[papercutout]

I can still drive as fast, and faster than 95% of the other road users out there, perfectly safely. Mind you, what does that say about everyone else?

bets please on papercutouts age

ill have a large amount on the 17-21 age group

You are, of course, correct (but the top end of that scale) *insert stupid comment about not being over-confident* I know how it comes across, and that previous comment of mine was written last night after having been out drinking, I think its very coherent for someone who was merry 95% is an exaggeration, I was forgetting how many people drive like tw@ts these days
Being honest, with the fuel prices and only just starting working again, I've been driving very gently for quite a while now, and I'll continue to do so. But you can still drive quickly and smoothly while being gentle, you just don't thrash it.
You don't hear me chatting about all these traffic light drags I've been doing, what my 0-60 is, top speed I've hit blah de blah, unlike many of the people here, because I don't do or care about that, and I'm not an idiot who thrashes a car everywhere. The car gets abuse at drift days, and thats about it.


As Topi says, you just drive differently, which is probably what should have been said at the beginning.

Murran, my comment was meant to imply you're more likely to spin in the wet with a welded diff than understeer, unless you have appalling front tyres.


Could we have a poll to see just how many of the commenters have actually ever drive an E30, for a length of time (e.g. more than 'I had a go in my mates car...') with a welded diff.
Just to sort those who know what they're saying from those that don't ;)




Oh and in real answer to the original question - bit like this, but even more so. Good penetrating welds, NOT ones that are just spatter on the surface, that'll break in no time. And yes, I know the photo isn't an E30 diff, its just an example, as soon as he opens his diff, he'll see what to do.

[Jon_Bmw]

Its simple.

If you use your e30 on the road most of the time and want to do the occasional drift day or track day, just buy a LSD.

If the car is only a drift car and gets trailored to events etc then weld it up. We also need a poll to see which of the trampdrift fanatics have actually used a LSD who regularly use their car on the road.


Boring topic that always ends up in at least 2 pages of 'cable tied' nonsense.

[steerfromtherear]

If the car is only a drift car and gets trailored to events etc then weld it up. We also need a poll to see which of the trampdrift fanatics have actually used a LSD who regularly use their car on the road.


.

Right thats not a problem, cars I have owned with lsd's
Merc 190 coswoof
e36 m3
e36 328i which I fitted lsd too
e30 325i sport
e28 m535i
e30 325i tourer
another e30 325i tourer
e32 735 manual with lsd
e36 328i sport

Everyone of them was my road car.

On top of that I had a e36 325i with a welded diff and now have a e34 535 with a welded diff. The 325i was my daily transport for 7 months, the e34 is only a drift car admittedly but I have also driven many cars with welded diffs that arent my own.

Truth is if your using the car on the road regularly and it comes with a lsd then there is no point in changing it for some occasional drifting unless your really serious where a stock lsd will hold you back. But if your bm comes with an open diff then why would you want to spend £300 to put in a 2nd hand sub standard diff for drifting when you can sort it for free with a welder?
Driving with a welded diff on the road isnt dangerous at all unless you are a shit driver who can not feel what is going on with his car. If your that sort of driver you really shouldnt be driving an e30 considering their propensity of chucking people off the road.
Yes there is an unnerving feeling of understeer just after intitial turn in but it is slight and after a day or so driving becomes forgotten.
Like topi said adapting to driving a welded diff is the same as adapting to driving on some different tyres or perhaps akin to hopping from your car to your work van, you just need a couple corners to remember where you are and how you drive.

Im 30 btw.

Just to add, a good well mantained, with tight locking action BMW Lsd is ok for drifting, a worn old BM lsd is almost no better than an open diff. Lets take a guess which one most of you have in your 20 yr old e30's? I can count on one hand how many BM lsd's Ive used that dont open up at some point.
A welded is awesome for drifting without exception.

[2_stroke]

ahhhhhhh

i just read this whole topic and i recognise a few usernames, tbh a welder is NOT good on the road!!
but having said that i have one in my daily e30 and yes i am a lunatic and i am 19, so say what you will about me!

the fact is that if you drive a welded diff then you have to adopt a different driving style, just as topi says.
if you continue to try to hoooon around like a tw@t in a corsa then yes it will kill you, and you will spin into a hedge, if you try to come in to a corner fast then you will understeer into a kirb, but if you have any skill at all you will quickly learn this and then learn to drive on a welder.

the only cars i have not crashed through driving too fast are cars with a welded diff, because i know that they cause the car to handle differently and this makes u drive sensibly in normal conditions, just like taking the corner in the landrover, but you know the diff is locked and its not a suprise to you when it pushes on, also you wouldnt take any corneres in a landy as fast as u would in an e30

tbh this topic makes me laff, if youve not got the balls to drive on a welder then dont get an lsd for drifting, cause you wont have the balls to try anything more than dohnuts and roundabout style drifts.


anyway, rant over, sorry.


to weld a diff....
#1. Drain all the oil and make sure it is as clean as a whistle inside.

#2. Take some wet rags or tissue and fill the diff with that, this keeps the sh*t out of the hard to reach places and keeps the seals from melting as it keeps the diff cool aswell.

#3. Set your welder to uber high power and blast the planet gears together and then to the planet gear caseing, if you still think that your welds are not strong enouf then make a plate to fit in the middle of the planet gears and then begin to fill each half of the caseing.

#4. When you have done one half of the gears then thak all the rag out rince it, and re-wet it

#5. Now you have finnished all the welding clean the hell out of it, dry it, and fill with halfords sae80-90

and if you want to be realy anal about it, give it a week or so and drop the oil then clean the bits you will inevitably miss off you magnetic sump plug



thanks for reading, please leave insults below

[Jon_Bmw]

If the car is only a drift car and gets trailored to events etc then weld it up. We also need a poll to see which of the trampdrift fanatics have actually used a LSD who regularly use their car on the road.


.

Truth is if your using the car on the road regularly and it comes with a lsd then there is no point in changing it for some occasional drifting unless your really serious where a stock lsd will hold you back.

So in that massive post you regurgitated what I said in two lines. How many of you are seriously into drifting then?

£250 is hardly a lot of money to make the car a lot more useable in an every day situation which is where most of you guys use your e30 right? If its a second car, weld it up, but its never going to be as safe or as good as a even an open diff on the road. But yes ultimately its going to be awesome in a drift event compared to a slipper. I have seen Karan in action at the Pod and it has a lot more power than a 318is with a welder. I think even he would admit its a tad lively on the road! Other people that have driven his car on the road say its interesting

Welders have a purpose, I just don't get them on a road car. Horses for courses and all that though.

[steerfromtherear]

So in that massive post you regurgitated what I said in two lines. How many of you are seriously into drifting then?

Well yes because none of the rest of it had any relevance to the question you asked? You asked for a TDer who used LSD's and welders on the road I gave you an answer. I could of used all of your post but I would of given the same answer and taken up more space on the page??

Id say most of us TD members are as seriously into drifting as our budgets/ life commitments allow. I run TDSW which is a regular drift practice day on an airfield in Somerset. Been going for 2 years with around 15 odd days under our belt. On top of that I have attended numerous other drifting practice days, pretty much as and when I can afford to. I'm not claiming to be great (cause Im not lol) but Id certainly say I was as seriously into it as I can be in this stage of my life.

To be honest being "serious" is subjective anyway. A lot of people see competing at top level as the proof of seriousness, I personally think if you drift regularly at any level your into drifting. Frankly the competition side of things is prohibitively expensive after you own something with enough guts/handling to be competetive, your car is specced up to safety levels and you have paid the entries/other costs.
Its much cheaper to go to practice days with a lid and some old tyres, you will do much more drifting and have much more fun for your money.

[Colonelk]

I used to drive a car with a welded diff for a good few thousand miles. It was my daily car, and my works 'van', despite having no dash, and often only a drivers seat. I also used it for drift practice, hence the welder. Only gave it up due to bad rust in bad places and someone offering me a cheap, more competent and less rusty replacement.

You'd have to be a class A idiot to crash it on the road, or as said before have 255s on the back and 195s on the front or something. My insurance were told the diff was 'locked' and they didnt bat an eyelid.

Is there anything in the Construction & Use rules about locked differentials and road use? Thats not me being a tart, Id genuinely like to know, as people will often claim things are illegal without even thinking about it (banded steels for instance) when they are perfectly legal.

Ill admit that my current car has the (stock, plate, worn out) LSD and is barely acceptable for practice days. When I stop being lazy, its getting the freshly welded diff in my garage installed and left there.

As for wearing out bushes..... were they the original (ie already virtually dead) bushes in there? If so, you're surprised they were pushed over the edge? A welder WILL reveal anything in your drivetrain that was on its last legs. Simple.#

EDIT: Hello BTW I registered to see if I could find any pictures / info / details on MJGs E30 but have failed

[Jon_Bmw]

Welcome, I presume you saw this post:

http://www.trampdrift.com/html/modules. ... highlight=

Good post Steerfromtherear. It is horses for courses but in my personal opinion welders are not great for a daily car that is sometimes used on a drift circuit, but mainly used in Mcdonalds car park(ala Papercutout?? ). Its not the most responsible thing to do is it? Mind a 318is does struggle to spin one wheel...joke before someone throws his toys out.

[papercutout]

Haha, I can feel the love from here Jon ;)
I've got photographic proof I can, and do drift, and I also don't do it on the road. I also suspect we'd probably get on well if we met in real life, something about the internet just makes people (inc me sometimes) into warriors. I suspect I'm nothing like the mental image you've been building of me.
I regularly attend practise days, minus the last 3 months because I was jobless and had no money, and get as much seat time in as possible.

Oh and I drive a 4door with an M42 engine in - proof you can easily drift a '318is'.

SFTR's talk about the quality of 16+ year old LSD's is entirely relevant too, but there's always the possibility of forking out for a 2 way diff as an alternative.
I'm a little gutted I didn't make it to the BMW show 2 weeks back, it was just before I got paid so couldn't afford to go, let alone drift.

[Jon_Bmw]

. I also suspect we'd probably get on well if we met

Too true, we are both scumbags driving m42's anyway.

Agreed on the worn LSD front too, to a degree. I think Quaife or the like would want £800+. I am in a similar situation with my 205, but slightly different. Its a track car mainly, does little road miles and it would benefit from a quaife slipper, but the car doesn't justify a £750 diff! That doesn't mean I am going to weld it up mind

The best thing for the car is that it gets a LSD, but importantly it won't comprimise its handling at all on the road. A welder is a must for drifting I guess. I presume there is no product that is affordable that offers a better level of control? I just don't think they are best practise in a day to day environment, thats just me.