Am I wrong to walk away?

[B7]

Bare with me on this one. I'm gonna take you on a journey!!

Had a nightmare day yesterday. Went to see a 120d BMW for the wife. Had to drive to north london (from Gatwick) to see it which in itself is not a strange thing for me to do for the right car. Now I have to say here and now, I've been buying and selling cars for as long as I remember but I've never felt like this! Something is just not right. I've sussed a lot of bent and untrue cars in the past but this one?

Starts off, I turn up and it's a fairly nice modern apartment block. Cars in the car park so I ring the guy to say I'm there. He strolls out. Looks like Catweazel. I dry the car off and it is PIN straight. I'm thinking this is the one. Story goes:

Guy inherited money and bought the car brand new in Dec 04 outright. Now selling for a 350Z. 120 has no previous owners on the book. A few issues which don't worry me as the car is VERY reasonably priced. Has a tyre pressure warning up (yet the N/S rear looks to be quite low anyway) and the airbag and seatbelt warning lights remain on. Glovebox catch is broken and the surround around the gear lever is broken. Both of these issues I knew about before going. I'm willing to foregoe these issues as the car is priced accordingly.

Then it goes all strange when the paperwork comes out. Address is not (or its it?) were we're standing. But it could be!!! No.1 Orbital court (or something like that) when we are in Spazzy Road (example there). I question it. Straight off he says, "thats what the block is caled. Not sure why the roads not on there". Fair comment I think. So I look for a sign on the block accordingly. NOTHING to state Orbital court. Then I look at the history. Remember this is a one owner car from new and the guy standing there is alledgedly the owner. The cars been serviced from new (4 stamps) in CHESHIRE!!! yet the cars wearing Bracknell BMW plates! I question the services in Cheshire and he says "I just take it back to where I got it". "What 3 f*ckin' hours away?" I state. "Yes" was his reply!

Why only one key? Daughter flushed the other one down the loo.
Wheres the document pack with the owners hand book? Lost that a long time ago.

However, I'm still interested. Remember this car is exactly what I'm looking for and in nice nick. Right colour, spec, engine, low mileage etc. etc. So I HPI it on the spot. Comes up TOTALLY clean even down to the V5 serial number being correct as issued on the 31st Dec 2004 with that chassis number. Chassis number on the car has never been tampered with and every number matches the V5C.

So Now I'm thinking "it must be kosher" so we talk money. Nothing off the price which I was expecting as it's well priced anyway!!

Worth mentioning here that his phone NEVER stopped ringing while I was there. 90% calls on the car which again made me suspicious. 1 or 2 maybe but not non stop!

"what deposit do you want?"
"£1000!" he states!!!!!!!!
"Ain't no way I'm gonna get a grand this afternoon" i replied. "wheres a Barclays?"

Cut a long story short I nip down the cashpoint and draw £250 out and tell him thats all I can get and that if it's not enough, I'll go home and he can sell it to the next bloke"

He takes it and hand writes me a reciept.

All the way home i'm thinking "Still not sure" so I discuss it with mates and the wife. I also line my 23 stone brother up for the return journey who believe me, collects debts in a way you wouldn't wanna see!!

I get home and do a DVLA check for tax. It's registered as "UNLICENSED" yet theres a disc in the screen until march next year!!
I then find the car on E&M. The name to the advert is different to the name on the log book and to the guy I met (alledgedly as I still don't know if he's who he says he is!). The forename is Francis. Could be either sex as well. Is this guy selling his wifes car during a messy divorce without her knowing hence one key etc.? All sorts going through the mind now.

Mates were trying to ring him last night but his phone was off. They were going to "enquire about the car" and ask a few pertinent questions "where was it serviced?" "got all the keys?" that type of crap, see if we can put some kind of sense arond it.

I want the car but cannot swallow losing 7k at this moment in time. 5 years ago, i'd have taken the risk but now I can't afford to. I can swallow 250 quid but the full 7k I cannot

What do i do boy's and girls?? I've never been this nervous about a purchase before.

[Gwynleym10]

Seems a bit odd!

Are you planning on keeping it? Will you be able to drive it happily without wondering what has happened to it in its past life? Will you be looking at the post every morning expecting something from the police to say that it is stolen / bent etc?

If your not planning on keeping it, will you make something out of it? or could you get cought out with something?

Sometimes it is best to go with your gut reactions..

[buzz6353]

worth a phone call to the dealers in cheshire??
like you saysomething sounds a bit weird

[Jeepster]

Well if you do get a notice from the police with regard to it being a ringer or stolen your covered up to 10K by HPI, so that should ease your mind.

It is odd though, mind you people are odd. The address thing would bother me, did any of it fit? The one thing about a block of flats is he could have been anywhere, just hanging around a corridor. If he is just doing the rounds picking up a load of deposits and doing a runner, surely the car is traceable?

[march109]

Check with the post office they can give you the address based on the postcode, might answer the address question at least.

If you do an RAC HPI check your covered as above.

[E30Mark]

To me it sounds like you just lost £250, did you actually see the owner come out from one of the apartments? In situations like this ask if you can you the loo, if he won't / cant let you in, then run away!

[SamiS]

We (brother and I) went to see a car for him. So I drive him down to said address, although we cant find the house number. So we call and ask, hes still not home, he'll be there in a minute. (dodgy, but we'll go along for a sec)

He comes around and just parks next to us and gets out. We look over, not in great nick but its only a few k this car. Get paperwork out. Everything is there, apart from 1 MOT. OK, may have been lost.

Looking at the next MOT, its done only a few hundred in a year! He said he travelled. We're defiantly uneasy now, and keep giving each other the eye. But continue. Service book. Tipex. TIPEX! you're 'avin a laugh!

Not to point it out to the guy and pretend were still interested we tell he we like the motor but need to view one more, we'll pay a deposit on the way back if we don't like the other.

Queue us jumping in my car before hes put everything away and driving like a loon to get out of there!

If it was a scam, then they'd gone to the trouble of keeping it a little dirty (like hes driven 50 miles to get home), kids seat in the back. Junk in the boot etc.

Again, went to look at a clio for the girlfriend. Paid £250 for deposit, got a AA check on it. Needed a fair bit of work (and thats what an AA man came up with from a quick look over) Needless to say, she lost the £250. He was a proper geezer, mate turned up in a £100k car and was bragging about selling cars quickly etc. Yea, good way to sell.

Sorry to rant, thought I'd share my stories. It happens to everyone at some point im sure. If you don't feel right, I'd walk away. Although the guarantee from the HPI sounds good! Call the seller/service garage of the car and get history.

[Rav335uk]

Stay away is my gut reaction, and get the money back!
Too many cnuts out there trying this one.
One of my dads mates bought one in similar circumstances, and after a few weeks got pulled over by the rozzers, and needless to say, car was stolen and on false plates, but all paperwork was good.
When they got back to him, they explained the documents were forged and that he would lose his car for good, and money.He didn't bother hpi checking it either.Total loss was £4,500.
I've never bought a car now for myself for 10yrs, only cars i by are from main dealers for my missus, peace of mind and I know i pay a little over the odds, but now it's a buyers market with them, especially for the big chealsa trucks

[Jhonno]

I would have run a mile fella..

Think you might needing use of your brother from the sounds of it!

[dom-1984-320i]

If I was in your position I would try (hope) to get my money back and walk away, gut feelings and all that. The right car will crop up again and for peace of mind this one doesn't sound right imho.

[whipsey]

do a quick search for the address on the log book and see if the car is there might be a wayof finding out whats goin on with it

[SHAKEELE30]

in your situation, i would do a hpi check ,just for the gut feeling of it..

good luck

[mikeyboy]

HPi check definately fella an lil extra cost for peace of mind. DVLA website tells you if it is regd too for free!

[scotty86d]

Get your deposit back and get a different car. No pint in taking risks with a lot of money. Even if the hpi thing would cover you the stress of going through this ordeal in my opinion is not worth it.If you cant afford one from a dealer either wait until you can or keep searching

[Jon_Bmw]

He has done a HPI check. Trev, my first instinct is that it has been rung, then I read back through your post and realised that you have thoroughly checked the chassis numbers. There isn't one hidden under a rear seat with trim codes that they could miss changing is there, if so, find it and check it.

So, it can only be one thing in my opinion. Perhaps it has done mega mileage? He has a mate it the Cheshire BMW who sends him a 'altered service book' Best thing to do is phone cheshire BMW and see if they have ever seen it, then phone the dealership nearsest him and see if they have ever seen it(bracknell BMW?) Sorry I'm not to clever when it comes to London. With it being so clean and straight you would have thought it wouldn't have done loads of miles, but it may just have. Think about it this way, they might make an additional £2.5k for a low miler one? Diesels generally sound the same, whether they have 50k or 150k

Something to think about anyway?

[jaffro]

can u not go to a main dealer a inquire a find out where it was originally sold from a get them to run it through. i can give you my mates number who works for david holmes bmw dealer here in stockport if need be

[Jeepster]

My impression is that the chap is just picking up deposits, agrees a sale with every one, gets the deposits and does a runner.

Eitherway, once you've given a deposit your not going to get it back are you. If the car and seller are genuine then why should they give you your £250 back? If either aren't then the chances are even more remote. I wouldn't refund a deposit unless something happened, the car was written off or the engine inexplicably died and I could continue with the sale of the car in the condition its was viewed in. That's the point of a deposit, you secure the sale at an agreed price, meaning that even if someone offered him more the car is yours. There should be a time frame on it meaning that if a seller never hears from the person who has paid the deposit then they can continue to sell the car. Put it this way, if you advertised a car, agreed a sale, taken a deposit then the car is sold, you refuse to accept any offers from anyone else. If that buyer messes you about you have the deposit to pay for more advertising and the waste of your time. You don't return it, its a non-returnable thing.

[dazleeds]

always trust your instincts fella

yes you may well lose a good car if it all straight, but as you say this dosnt sound right and 7k loss is a fair risk

1 thing odd maybe but there are several things playing on your mind, not good. send your bro round for the 250 and keep searching.

[B7]

Excellent responses guys thanks.

As Jon says I did an HPI there and then verifying the v5 with the chassis number while HPI were on the phone.

Thing is the HPI don't cover you if you pay cash. And how did he want the remainder? IN CASH!!!! Another thing worth remembering guys is that HPI won't pay out if you paid under 60% of the market value I think it is. And how much did they value it at? £11k. So, it appears our friends at HPI over value the car so it's easier to not pay out when the punter gets a bit of a deal!

I have this morning rung the DVLA and they confirmed that the DVLA check on line can sometimes be a little out of date.
"give me the reg number and Ill check it for you on the live data base" says the lovely sweet welsh accent on the phone (god I love that accent on a woman!)
Gave her the details
"No your right. Not taxed at this moment nor has it been since 25.06.08!" So it aint taxed despite the disc in the screen!

HOWEVER. I also rang Vines, my local BMW dealer and spoke to their service dept. He ran it through the BMW computer and guess what. Yes All it's servicing has been done at Preston Hall BMW in Stockton on Tees. I know thats not cheshire but it is Cleveland. I may have got confused on the cheshire bit but one things for certain, The history appears kosher.

Now heres the rub!!!!!! Since last night he's deleted his "Hi its Francis, Leave a number and I'll get back to you" answer phone message. It just defaults to Leave a message after the tone. No one can get hold of him!!!! So it appears I was right to be suspicious and a mug to hand over 250 quid. However, at least I never gave him the grand he was looking for.

I think a little trip to Enfield may be in order to let my animal off his leash!

I'll keep you posted.

[Jhonno]

[B7]

To me it sounds like you just lost £250, did you actually see the owner come out from one of the apartments? In situations like this ask if you can you the loo, if he won't / cant let you in, then run away!

I didn't see him come out of any doors lets put it like that. I was too busy looking round the car before I spotted him.

[B7]

Seems a bit odd!

Are you planning on keeping it? Will you be able to drive it happily without wondering what has happened to it in its past life? Will you be looking at the post every morning expecting something from the police to say that it is stolen / bent etc?

If your not planning on keeping it, will you make something out of it? or could you get cought out with something?

Sometimes it is best to go with your gut reactions..

No, This ones a keeper. I'm looking for a current modern car (hence the 120) with reasonable mileage to keep for the next 5 years or so. We are just in the process of moving schools for my daughter and the fees are about to go through the roof. I just need something that will still be saleable in a few years time that won't have USS Enterprise mileage when we come to sell. I was looking at Mk5 Golf GTIs as well but now the Mk6 is nearly here, the Mk5 will be well out of date by the time we sell. Just trying to protect my dough as much as second hand car moneys goes to be honest.

And this particular car ticked all the right boxes. 39k fBMWsh, Half Leather, Sport pack inc. heated seats, Zenons, Headlamp wash, PDC front and rear, The nice 5 spokes, Grafite Grey, Bluetooth enabled., MP3 port, Fold in mirrors etc. etc. etc. AND it was priced well.

[B7]

Well what a waste of df*cking time that was. He's just rung me!!! And he sold it last night, full asking price and the guys had cash on them!!!! He's getting my deposit back to me. I've suggested Paypal as I ain't giving him my bank details!

I suppose it's all worked out okay in the end. The decisions been made for me and at least he's returning my deposit.

The search for a 120 begins once more

[Jhonno]

its worth the wait imo.. it just all sounded a little off

120d is a lovely chariot, my mum has a sport, 54 plate, 23k on the clock, 18" MSport rims and loaded..

[Jon_Bmw]

Who carries 7k of cash on them? You need to give banks notice of 2 days I thought if you want to withdraw that amount.

I hope you get your £250 back Trev, I have a nasty feeling that its going to be harder to come by now the car is gone. You can't trace him through the car anymore...The 'new' owner(which could just be his mate) is going to deny all knowledge of him and say he has just bought it.

Hope you get your dosh back

[Jhonno]

Who carries 7k of cash on them?

[Jon_Bmw]

Yeah brudda. Casssssh mate(devvo voice)

[Andyboy]

That sounds as wrong as hell. Maybe I'm a coward but the only place I would buy a 1 Series from would be either an auction for an ex fleet car/overage stock, or from a main dealer with the warranty.
Auctions have plenty of nice spec 1 Series now and main dealers are very flexible on price.

If you want to go the auction route, I have access to various auction on line catalogues.

[Jeepster]

Well what a waste of df*cking time that was. He's just rung me!!! And he sold it last night, full asking price and the guys had cash on them!!!! He's getting my deposit back to me. I've suggested Paypal as I ain't giving him my bank details!

Indeed, he shouldn't have sold it. Mind you, he didn't have to contact you to tell you (obviously morally he did, but morally he shouldn't have sold it to someone else) and offer you the refund. I would think that you will get it. Hope you do anyway.

As for the comments about cash, well If I am looking for a car I pay in cash, if I can't do cash then my view is that I can't afford the car. So yeah, I may well have the money immediately available to pay for a car and banks do not need 2 days to find 7K cash out of your account. You can walk into any branch and get it with the right ID.

[Jon_Bmw]

I wasn't suggesting that I don't have X amount of money or X amount in my bank account. The same applies to Trev here as well I am sure. I was just stating that on viewing a car for the first time, I would not be carrying around £7k in an envolope. It could get stolen off you by the person selling the car, it could even tempt you to buy the car there and then! Which in this case would have ended in possibly.

I always assumed they needed a certain amount of time to withdraw cash like that. I didn't think it was an ID thing as you can close your account with one photographic ID proof and you'd get it in Cash or a cheque made out to cash.

[Jeepster]

Jon, I wasn't suggesting that anyone did or didn't have money in their account, merely talking about my own attitude to buying cars. I tend to go with cash, sometimes you can get a better deal with the cash right in front of someone. Obviously I don't walk up and tell people I have the cash if its in the car , I would only get into that conversation if I decided I wanted the car.

[B7]

Cash can still hit hard on an offer and I have many times stolen a car as the deal has been cash. No I didn't have 7k cash in my bin yesterday but can get it in 24 hours which to most sellers, it's normally fine with a 250 deposit whacked on for security. Obviously the guy needed the cash before I could get it!

A couple of things may have gone down here I reckon.

1. It's in the Expand and Fart for 7650ono. He hasn't dropped it in there. However in the auto trader it's down to 6950. I reckon someones waded in there last night and he's asked the question, "What price did I say in the ad??" They've said 7650 and bingo, he knocks 150 quid off to make the buyer a bit happier and still scores another monkey over my offer which was the Autotrader price! Win Win for him.

OR

2. He's got a bit worried with all the questions I've asked re the servicing (although that now ads up, it proves I'm on the ball) him supplying photo ID before he gets his dough, the Tax issue etc. He's shat himself (he's probably not called Francis at all) and pulled the deal and offered the deposit back to keep me quiet. I've yet to hit him with the 19 quid I wasted on an HPI check. Well you can't blame a man for trying can you?

[Andyboy]

The whole thing stinks. A BMW dealer would have given him more than that as a straight cash sale. Consider yourself lucky you escaped.

[E30BeemerLad]

If you want to go the auction route, I have access to various auction on line catalogues.

Asian Babes?

[town325i]

the car sounds like a clone to me get in contact with the police and see what they say there has been lots of scams of late with cars being sold in car parks.

whats the blokes number maybe we could all ring him and see if the story is the same every time!