My Nurburgring Brief Trip Report

[Alburglar]

Recently came back from my fourth trip to the ring, but my first ever trip in an e30. E36 rack was brilliant and I did not feel that it needed to be quicker - not too many hairpins on the nordschleife! Ferodo ds2500 brake pads are the best I've ever used round there. Kumho tyres were good value for money. A bit Hairy in the wet, but surprisingly good in the dry.
Found some good pics of me on various websites too!

[fuzzy]

looks good. what was your best time? the pics dont show any other traffic. was it quiet?

[Alburglar]

I never time myself since I had an accident, but passengers have told me various times between 9.20 and 9.50 BTG.
Had great fun. I was watching the le man series at the gp track over the weekend so only did late laps sat / sun and weekdays were quite during work hours as usual.

[UweM3]

I never time myself since I had an accident, but passengers have told me various times between 9.20 and 9.50 BTG.
Had great fun. I was watching the le man series at the gp track over the weekend so only did late laps sat / sun and weekdays were quite during work hours as usual.

sod the lap times! It's all about having fun. Who cares what the lap time is as long you are happy with your driving. Laptimes can vary so much depending on traffic, 1min different between laps means not you have driven slower. There could just have been a lot of traffic.

What are these black lines in your headlights??

[fuzzy]

everyone has that competitive side where your always trying to better your own previous or a mates time.
well everyone except new labour everyone is equal appeasement monkeys that is. its not the winning its the taking part that counts is only believed by losers and quitters. get out there and give it some welly next time

[UweM3]

everyone has that competitive side where your always trying to better your own previous or a mates time.
well everyone except new labour everyone is equal appeasement monkeys that is. its not the winning its the taking part that counts is only believed by losers and quitters. get out there and give it some welly next time

have you driven the Ring BTW??

[fuzzy]

everyone has that competitive side where your always trying to better your own previous or a mates time.
well everyone except new labour everyone is equal appeasement monkeys that is. its not the winning its the taking part that counts is only believed by losers and quitters. get out there and give it some welly next time

have you driven the Ring BTW??

no,not yet mines is usually broken but the sentiment remains the same for all competitive sports and pass times.
thats why i ask times so i know what an average is to aim for when i do go over.

[UweM3]

everyone has that competitive side where your always trying to better your own previous or a mates time.
well everyone except new labour everyone is equal appeasement monkeys that is. its not the winning its the taking part that counts is only believed by losers and quitters. get out there and give it some welly next time

have you driven the Ring BTW??

no,not yet mines is usually broken but the sentiment remains the same for all competitive sports and pass times.
thats why i ask times so i know what an average is to aim for when i do go over.

that explains it all.....
go over and FLOOR IT! give it some welly and show us how it's done.
I just hope I will not be around when you bounce back from the Armco (which you will PAY for. Every single inch you scratch)
But I bet you feel confident and don't understand what all the fuss is about with the Ring cos you have done it already on the Playstation.

[fuzzy]

its a race track.much like other race tracks but longer. people go over to race against times they or people they know have previously achieved in cars they have built or prepped for such occasions. if you want to potter around at 30 go to a tesco car park. common sense is in attendance. you dont go anywhere and hammer it without getting to know the place a bit first but seeing as its his 4rth visit he should be giving it a bit more welly by now. it was a tongue in cheek comment made slighly more obvious for those without a sense of humour by the inclusion of the smiley at the end .

[UweM3]

its a race track.much like other race tracks but longer. people go over to race against times they or people they know have previously achieved in cars they have built or prepped for such occasions. if you want to potter around at 30 go to a tesco car park. common sense is in attendance. you dont go anywhere and hammer it without getting to know the place a bit first but seeing as its his 4rth visit he should be giving it a bit more welly by now. it was a tongue in cheek comment made slighly more obvious for those without a sense of humour by the inclusion of the smiley at the end .

people loose life's on this race track. Ever thought about that? Seriously, if you haven't driven it yourself, you should think about what you post. It takes 50 laps minimum just to remember where you are going. The traffic can be horrendous and you may come across ANYTHING. Coaches, motorbike, the Dodge Viper (watch your mirrors for him!!)
I have spoken/met a lot of people who didn't understand what the fuss is about. Till they driven it themselves. I don't blame you for taking it too easy cos you haven't been there, but as long you don't join the club you are not able to comment with the right back ground.
Don't get me wrong, I also think laptimes are part of the game but on the Ring they should NEVER be the priority. At least not on a Tourist driving day. It's not a track day in the end and you will come across people who are just doing this, poodling along and have a good look at the most famous race track in the world.

I bet the first time when you fly down Pflanzgarten with 120mph+ and you feel the car lifting off with all 4 wheels drifting sideways down a hill as steep as paddock hill bend you will understand what the fuss is about.
(we had a chap loosing it there with an M5 and he wrote the car off and paid 7000Euros damage. And he had 300laps+ under his belt....)

peace

[fuzzy]

people lose lives all over the world doing all sorts of things. if you worry to much about everything youd be to afraid to leave the house in the mornings.
mistakes can happen by anyone at anytime regardless of how much experience they have, thats all part of the risk of any track day anywhere but at the end of the day its a track of straights and bends like many others(albeit longer) and not some magical mystical beast that randomly attacks passer bys that only those "in the club" can understand.
ive never partaken in bestiality either but that doesnt stop me being able to have an opinion on the subject.

[UweM3]

people lose lives all over the world doing all sorts of things. if you worry to much about everything youd be to afraid to leave the house in the mornings.
mistakes can be done by anyone at anytime regardless of how much experience they have, thats all part of the risk of any track day anywhere but at the end of the day its a track of straights and bends like many others(albeit longer) and not some magical mystical beast that randomly attacks passer bys that only those "in the club" can understand.
ive never partaken in bestiality either but that doesnt stop me being able to have an opinion on the subject.

I knew you would say something like that. I do not worry, but I have my eyes open have a good look at things myself before I make my mind up.
I used to hate the Ring with passion cos of all the accidents happened to my friends but I still drive it. I just took advice and gave it some time.

one day you will understand. Listening is clearly not your thing. I hope you don't learn it the hard way.

I just don't like it if people who do not know what they are talking about judge others or look down on them.

[fuzzy]

whos judging or looking down on anyone? i asked the o/p what time he had before you jumped in with all this i know it all sh1te?
anyway, enough from me on this , you can carry on with your sanctimonious shit yourself.

[E30BeemerLad]

I think the point Uve was trying to get across James is that it is a dangerous practice to go out there and be concerned about what time you are getting around there.

To be honest, I would be happy on my first couple of trips to come back without incident before i even contemplated what time I was turning in. If it feels quick in the arse dyno dept and you feel you are hooking up the corners well that would be good enough for me

I would probably want to hook up a few passenger laps too before setting foot on there behind the wheel myself. No amount of PS games can prepare you for the gradients and the traffic apparently

[fuzzy]

im sure he was and if stating the obvious is what its about then i believe it also gets light during the day.
anyway lets end it there before it gets really silly.
im glad the o/p enjoyed his trip and the times of 9.20- 9.50 he stated arent bad i believe.

[UweM3]

laptimes will drop as you learn the track. They will not drop when you go out with the ticking clock on the dash.
Just this morning I had a browse through my early ring videos. I was surprised on how many places I used to lift compared to now. Track knowledge is what makes the difference on the Ring, it's not like a "normal" race track where you turn up in the morning ,do some laps to learn the track and then you give it a go in the afternoon.
A few years back I was a nervous wreck after driving under 9 mins, now I bed my brake pads in doing 9 mins!
And that's just down to the fact that I now know where NOT to lift off and go a save line allowing to keep the speed up. One or two slow cars in the way and you have lost 15 sec. So it's really difficult to compare laptimes.
I am sure I have done a few very fast laps and the clock would not have gone below 9 mins just because of the traffic. Imagine this happening to somebody new to the Ring, he might be disappointed and try even harder just beeing afraid to go home telling his buddies the lap time. (or post it on a forum...)
You know when you do a good lap on the ring, it just feels right. Whatever the stop watch says.
And rather in getting angry and accusing people to talk shit, some people need to go out there first.

[Alburglar]

I hate to sound pious, but timing yourself really is the most silly thing you can do at the ring, so I totally agree with Uwe's sentiments and think he is just trying to make a point and not to have a go. But he is right, people do not understand the place untill they get there and do the first lap.
It is far better to lap slow and safe and your time's will gradually decrease. Every person I know, who worried about times before at least 50 laps (which can easliy be two 5day trips worth) wrote their car off / ended up in A&E or had an off but escaped lightly and scared themselves. Happens every trip, first trip I did it was me who kissed the armco, this trip there was a classic case, one guy came back after 2nd lap raving about his time and two days later he was limping home in a hire car.

And also do you think clarkson did his 10 minutes in a day? All the locals reckon he was lapping as often as he could for 3days!

But I definately think that it is a brilliant place to be experiencend!

[fuzzy]

if lap times arent that important why did you have times to quote? all i asked was what times you did it in as a comparison as another learner.
no ones angry uwem3 but some people take things to seriously .

[Alburglar]

I am still very slow compared to most of the guys there and it is also good advice to indicate to the right and slow down a little when faster traffic approaches. Which is 75% of other traffic! Then just coast round untill you have a clear track for abit and start hitting the apex's again. You still have fun and you are not getting in anyone's way.

[Alburglar]

Passengers were timing me without my knowledge and told me after the lap. That's the only reason I've got a clue about my times at all.
Honestly fuzzy, if you go, then don't time, or you end up getting pressured into carrying speed into corners by faster traffic overtaking you, leaving yourself off line at high speed. - it's a scary combo!

[UweM3]

if lap times arent that important why did you have times to quote? all i asked was what times you did it in as a comparison as another learner.
no ones angry uwem3 but some people take things to seriously .

I am a bit too sensitve when the subject is the ring. So apaoligies if you felt harrased. It's just that I recently read a lot of comments here (not talking about you, just general) about the ring (have seen you and overtook you blablabla..) and I just don't think the Ring is the place for a track/laptime war. I would lie if I say I don't like it when I do a decent time on the ring. But I look at my datalogger on the way home or in the night at the Hotel.

[handpaper]

I hate to sound pious, but timing yourself really is the most silly thing you can do at the ring, so I totally agree with Uwe's sentiments and think he is just trying to make a point and not to have a go. But he is right, people do not understand the place untill they get there and do the first lap.
It is far better to lap slow and safe and your time's will gradually decrease. Every person I know, who worried about times before at least 50 laps (which can easliy be two 5day trips worth) wrote their car off / ended up in A&E or had an off but escaped lightly and scared themselves. Happens every trip, first trip I did it was me who kissed the armco, this trip there was a classic case, one guy came back after 2nd lap raving about his time and two days later he was limping home in a hire car.

And also do you think clarkson did his 10 minutes in a day? All the locals reckon he was lapping as often as he could for 3days!

But I definately think that it is a brilliant place to be experienced!

I'm going to have to hold my hand up here and say "Yes, I do sometimes time laps". Most of us do, whether we condone it or not. Short of having your driving professionally assessed, it's the only way to see if you're improving.
Having a ticking clock visible as you drive round is not a good idea; it's a distraction in itself and can cause stress and anxiety over delays (and there will usually be something, perfectly clear laps are rare).
Having a passenger time isn't so bad, especially if you don't know they're doing it; running a datalogger as Uwe mentioned is possibly the best option - lap at your comfort level all day, see where you are afterwards.
I use the OBC timer; set it running and switch to another function for the lap, switch back and stop at the end.
I've also been known to express pleasure at taking the odd scalp
BUT....One lucky escape last year (span at Brunnchen 1 chasing a Scooby and an Evo) has taught me the dangers of red mist.
I consider it a 'win' if I've had fun, driven smoothly, learned something and got the car home in one piece

P.S. Clarkson didn't do it.
He's not actually a very good driver, most of the 'action' shots were driven by Jaguar's local production manager.

[Alburglar]

A lot of guys film their laps and watch them later. I know that's not allowed, but it does appear to be a good method.

[Brianmoooore]

I've only ever driven one lap of the 'ring, and it was an incredible experience! "Just another race track, but longer" it is NOT, fuzzy. I've driven on one or two other 'ordinary' tracks, and this was completely different - the place has all kind of weird cambers, blind apexes, hidden twists and curves, that until you have spent a fair proportion of your life there, learning it, you are constantly going to find your self on the wrong part of the track at the wrong time, at the wrong speed!
Looking into my rear view mirror going into a RH corner, seeing nothing in sight, taking the corner, then, just as I was drifting out to the LH side of the apex, catching sight of a Porsche GT3 a few inches from my rear bumper, was an interesting experience too!!

[zimmerbimmer1]

Whilst I was at the ring last year I got talking to a marshal there and asked him about lap timing.

His words were DO NOT do it especially if you are a novice to the track below 50 laps.

He attended to a fatal accident on the ring and found a stopwatch still running.

I have since asked not to be timed on the ring cause I am not going to push myself especially with the amount of cars and bikes let out on the ring at same time.

And being the first on the scene to an accident whilst on Scumball was bad enough 3 cars 4 bikes. Luckily no one was killed or seriously injured but it did close the ring for a good half hour. At someones expense.

[zimmerbimmer1]

A lot of guys film their laps and watch them later. I know that's not allowed, but it does appear to be a good method.

Yes if you have a bullet cam hidden nicely

[UweM3]

A lot of guys film their laps and watch them later. I know that's not allowed, but it does appear to be a good method.

Yes if you have a bullet cam hidden nicely

you need to hide it very nicely.....

http://garage.s14power.com/data/501/nonono.wmv

[Alburglar]

It's weird though. The rules and marshalls will always say strictly no cameras, but most are really obvious. Half the time they stare straight at the cameras and wave you through, and then randomly every so often they pull people out the queue for having a camera. I've even seen people put in the sin bin for couple of hours for it.
I think they just decide on sight if they like you or not and let you get away with stuff accordingly, being english doesn't help as loads of the brit tourists they get through there act like nobs apparently. I've only ever witnessed one incident with lads in 'saxo like, max power clutter' donuting in the gravel car park out back.
The rest of the time it's rich boys in lambos / Gt3's thinking it's ok to take up 2 spaces in the car park.
...and then not getting out the way when a local in an e30 / mk2 golf is coming up on them quick on the track!

[Rich_W]

I went this year and did 5 laps. (should of done more but it started to rain ) I'll admit I did look at the clock before I went out and then again upon my return. Was approx 10mins but it could really be 10,59 seconds as the clock doesnt do seconds.

I know "sections" of the track. So the first 3-4 K or so I know the direction. Also the fast bit leading up to Karroussel. And the exmulhe area. But I really dont know the best line and it shows when climbing out of Adenau bridge and speed just falls away. Im sure that given loads and loads of laps I'll improve though. Time isnt a priority just yet!!

What I did notice is I started to brake less. Spent a fair bit of time watching out for M3 CSLs and various 911's that whooped me. Even those rental Alfas and Suzuki Swifts made be look like a numpty!

[mhuk]

I am still very slow compared to most of the guys there and it is also good advice to indicate to the right and slow down a little when faster traffic approaches. Which is 75% of other traffic! Then just coast round untill you have a clear track for abit and start hitting the apex's again. You still have fun and you are not getting in anyone's way.

Well said. I have been to the ring twice.

1st time in my Volvo 480 Turbo and had many cars pass me but that don't matter.

2nd time was a 944S2 3lt which I never got to drive because the owner (my friend) lost control and went sideways and hit the armco (last month) damage came to just over 500E. Turns out the rear shocks would not balance out on the bend so we went bouncing.

Make sure your car is working fine before getting on the ring!

Also...

2 X Bikes
1 X Skyline

crashed around the same time that day.

Funny as they closed the track (for the bike) and my friend went with the track people the wrong way round lol.

[M3BOB]

not being one to get involved in things like this normally, i feel i have to, ive done about 2000 miles at brands in the last few years and can drive it fairly quickly, and have raced previously, but after waiting nearly 20 years to go the the ring, ive just been, and all i can say is forget what you have done on trackdays on a short circuit this ones a monster, i found this out on my first day at the ring going relativly slowly, to get the lines, and still had an off, in my m3 that handles very well.

On saturday i was out all day, and after a full day and only doing 8 laps did i get some confidence to remember some, yes some of the corners, ive been asked by a few people since getting back what are you lap times, and my answer has been to all of them , "forget that, you just want to stay on track, you dont get time to look at anything but the circuit" people like uwe and john out there have masses of experience and will always tell you not to drive beyond your means, or you will get hurt and i saw that a few times over the weekend, a lot went away in helicopters.

When youve been overtaken by mk1 astras, and citroen ax's with local plates it makes you aware of how much you have to do to get it right and be quick, the worst thing to do is race a local - YOU'LL LOSE

The ring is like no other racetrack or trackday, you dont see cars , vans and bikes out on any other circuit together

Be careful out there!!!

Rant made - thats it

[Simon13]

it all goes wrong quickly when the clock comes out and you don't know the circut. Even folks who do. Worst place to do it. Just drive around there and have fun and ignore the clock

[juniorGT]

Fuzzy you clearly have no understanding of the ring lol

all the people who time their laps have done at leat 300+ laps only to see if they have improved over the years! you need at leat 50-100 to just to learn the corners (not to mention the correct lines), you dont need power at the ring, 2nd gear for the Karuosell then 3rd and 4th for the best part, you need to be smooth not quick and aggressive, what srews it up is some of the english who play forza2 and whatch top gear who think they can go out there on their 1st ever lap and post a sub 10min or at least try to and are damn right dangerous. because they go beond their limits and push the bounderies, and it will bite you, trust me, works out at £300 a metre if you hit the Armco! i know people who have done in 12 metres.. and the polezie will get involved on some occasions as there is a speed limit belive it or not, you, crash = your speeding end of ! just how it works. when i was out there last 2 bikers died because some brits in an E46, and the pople in the car had to be air abulanced to hospital. my friend had an off once cost him 1200 euros just to get the car off the track thats with 800 euros off the final bill

its a real negative place if not respected

hope that puts it in prospective a little

as you progress you will find that you wont need the use of your brakes as much !