Would it be worth while putting a MegaSquirt system onto my 1998 M44 e36 318iS ?
It could be a building block onto other things eventualy such as adding a S/C.
What MS system would be best for me & could i just run the car without any other modifications on an MS setup?
Regards,
Pete.
MegaSquirt on an e36 M44 318iS 4 door ?
Moderator: martauto
Yup, can be done, but the M44 has a nice system out of the box and if you could learn to remap that properly, that would be better in my opinion (and I'm a megasquirt user!).
2.1 318is, MS, LPG. 200bhp, 175ft/lbs GONE!
Boxster, e46 m3, e36 sport touring and alpina B3 3.0
I run MS2 extra release 2. I've done all the megasquirt stuff myself, it's that kind of system really! I use Paul (shepsevo3 on here)'s rollers and his expert advice on fine tuning. Engine is a bit of a hybrid, has bits off all sorts, is essentially an m42 though i guess 
2.1 318is, MS, LPG. 200bhp, 175ft/lbs GONE!
Boxster, e46 m3, e36 sport touring and alpina B3 3.0
Cool 
Let's put it this way then...
What MS kit would you suggest for me to use with a bog standard M44, with a long term goal to S/C it?
Can i just plug it all in & remove the cars 'old' ECU & wiring?
Once it's all connected up, whats next, do i need to get a map from somewhere, or does the MS ECU learn as the car is being driven for a while?
Sorry for all the questions, it's a new world to me.
Basicaly i have a laptop & want to know if there is anything i can do once the system is installed.
I dont have access to any rollers, but i do know of a company based close to me that have some.
Regards,
Pete.
Let's put it this way then...
What MS kit would you suggest for me to use with a bog standard M44, with a long term goal to S/C it?
Can i just plug it all in & remove the cars 'old' ECU & wiring?
Once it's all connected up, whats next, do i need to get a map from somewhere, or does the MS ECU learn as the car is being driven for a while?
Sorry for all the questions, it's a new world to me.
Basicaly i have a laptop & want to know if there is anything i can do once the system is installed.
I dont have access to any rollers, but i do know of a company based close to me that have some.
Regards,
Pete.
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FlappySocks
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If you use a wideband sensor (google for JAW), you can tune it as you drive. When you have something half decent, I use MegaLogViewer to tune it further, by capturing a few long journeys.
Motronic to Megasquirt Plug and Play Guide-
FlappySocks
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This is JAW. http://www.14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm
Or use the innovate LC1. Both connect to Megasquirt. I haven't had any professional tuneups on my cars - just relied on the wideband sensor, and my tweaking (trial and error mostly). My maps are not perfect, but they run better than stock, and there is an element of fun with the whole learning process.
Or use the innovate LC1. Both connect to Megasquirt. I haven't had any professional tuneups on my cars - just relied on the wideband sensor, and my tweaking (trial and error mostly). My maps are not perfect, but they run better than stock, and there is an element of fun with the whole learning process.
FlappySocks,
Great stuff you have showed me / told me there, thanks
So, being a complete novice, what exactly do i need to convert my car to an MS setup & be able to tune it myself just using my laptop?
Regards,
Pete.
Great stuff you have showed me / told me there, thanks
So, being a complete novice, what exactly do i need to convert my car to an MS setup & be able to tune it myself just using my laptop?
Regards,
Pete.
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FlappySocks
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How much of it do you want to do yourself? If you want to go for MS, then you have a few options...
1. Build from scratch (right down to soldering the parts to a circuit board)
2. Buy a partial kit with a ready built and tested ECU.
3. Plug & Play (if there is one for the M44)
4. Get a pro to install it (PM Ant).
First off - do your research. MS opens a lot of doors in getting the most out of your engine, and comes with goodies like traction control out of the box. Read the manual. If you dont understand the fundamentals of wiring it all up, then I recommend you dont! On the other hand, there are lots of BMW owners that have done this, and are willing to help. Some engines are easy to convert, and are well documented. The M20 for example requires just a replacement TPS and a air temp sensor to get it working. You can install wasted spark for less than the price of a new dizzy cap & rotor arm. So it's understandable why MS is very popular with M20 owners. No more 20 year old flappy air-flow meters. No more historic dizzy's.
Also ask yourself what you want it for. Gains in performance/fuel mpg can be significant on an M20 engine...but may not be so much on an M44. If you want it for the enjoyment of having total control over your engine, then MS is the way to go (for the money, and DIY experience at least).
1. Build from scratch (right down to soldering the parts to a circuit board)
2. Buy a partial kit with a ready built and tested ECU.
3. Plug & Play (if there is one for the M44)
4. Get a pro to install it (PM Ant).
First off - do your research. MS opens a lot of doors in getting the most out of your engine, and comes with goodies like traction control out of the box. Read the manual. If you dont understand the fundamentals of wiring it all up, then I recommend you dont! On the other hand, there are lots of BMW owners that have done this, and are willing to help. Some engines are easy to convert, and are well documented. The M20 for example requires just a replacement TPS and a air temp sensor to get it working. You can install wasted spark for less than the price of a new dizzy cap & rotor arm. So it's understandable why MS is very popular with M20 owners. No more 20 year old flappy air-flow meters. No more historic dizzy's.
Also ask yourself what you want it for. Gains in performance/fuel mpg can be significant on an M20 engine...but may not be so much on an M44. If you want it for the enjoyment of having total control over your engine, then MS is the way to go (for the money, and DIY experience at least).
Option 2 sounds like it would best suited to my competence level.
I'm quite fortunate as my e36 318iS comes standard with ACS (traction control).
I think the fundamental's make take a little time to digest, but i want to know how to install it all, as i can see this being of a great benefit to the understanding of the system as a whole?
I want it to be able to have total control over the engine & also i like the idea of a S/C setup someday on my M44.
Regards,
Pete.
I'm quite fortunate as my e36 318iS comes standard with ACS (traction control).
I think the fundamental's make take a little time to digest, but i want to know how to install it all, as i can see this being of a great benefit to the understanding of the system as a whole?
I want it to be able to have total control over the engine & also i like the idea of a S/C setup someday on my M44.
Regards,
Pete.
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FlappySocks
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Then got for it. My first build was and uphill struggle. I knew hardly anything about fuel injection, but learned along the way. Starting my car up for the first time was very exciting, having spent months building, and preparing for it. Then you start the learning process all over again, by tuning it, and getting to know your engine. It's very satisfying if you can do some/all of it yourself.
There is a fair bit of info on my wiki on how to do an M20. I may be partnering up with someone to do an E36 later in the year. I have just completed a guide for a Volvo 1.8 Motronic ECU. Got a Vauxhall Plug & Play in the works.
There is a fair bit of info on my wiki on how to do an M20. I may be partnering up with someone to do an E36 later in the year. I have just completed a guide for a Volvo 1.8 Motronic ECU. Got a Vauxhall Plug & Play in the works.
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FlappySocks
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If your going to make a Plug & Play setup (patching into the existing wiring loom, like what i do), then yes, you could do it on your daily car. It adds to the pressure a bit tho. Prepare in advance, and do the swap over in one hit. You can always revert it back should it go wrong, and try again some other time.
Yes to LPG. You can wire a switch that will toggle the fuel maps between petrol and LPG.
Yes to LPG. You can wire a switch that will toggle the fuel maps between petrol and LPG.
I think this thread doesn't really tell the whole story.
you'll lose sequential injection (megasquirt doesn't support this yet), I don't think ASC will work (do you have ASC or ASC+T, I've forgotten what the m44 has), your OBC/MPG gauge won't work without some work, running sequential sparks like factory will be ballache (although a wasted spark setup is easier), your ICV may well be a problem (it's built in to your TB so not easily changeable), you'll need to rig up something to get MS to control your DISA valve, you'll also lose knock control (or you'll need to build an extra circuit into megasquirt, and I don't think it will ever work as well as the factory setup)/EWS, if you have AC you'll lose the extra rpm that feeds the ecu when switched on, I'm not sure how well you'll be able to read fault codes off other modules in the car (you might be ok though), you'll lose OBD2 compliance etc.
Your current ECU is pretty modern and is arguably a much more complex bit of kit than megasquirt. changing it in many respects would be a backwards step. I'd never consider this on an m44 unless I was unable to remap the existing ECU. All this before considering that the M44 has a really good tune on it, and no matter how many hours development you put into megasquirt, I guarantee you you won't do any better on a really simplistic ECU than the 1000s of hours put in by BMW engineers on a very sophisticated ECU.
As for the LPG thing, sure strictly speaking it's possible, but if you use an injector channel for the LPG injectors, one for petrol, you won't even be able to run semi-sequential injection on either petrol or LPG, also your warmup enrichment will remain the same as when on petrol (which is no good for LPG), likewise with your accel enrichment. Megasquirt also doesn't take into account the vaporiser temperature or LPG pressure (varies by tank level), and you'll also lose the in-built safety features built into LPG ECUs unless you do a fair bit of extra work to megasquirt. You'll never get a perfect tune, and won't be able to switch over until warm. tbh it would be hard enough to get megasquirt to do LPG alone, let alone doing both petrol and LPG. which is why I use a Romano LPG ECU for my LPG setup, and megasquirt for petrol.
A piggyback would work better I reckon and be much less work.
you'll lose sequential injection (megasquirt doesn't support this yet), I don't think ASC will work (do you have ASC or ASC+T, I've forgotten what the m44 has), your OBC/MPG gauge won't work without some work, running sequential sparks like factory will be ballache (although a wasted spark setup is easier), your ICV may well be a problem (it's built in to your TB so not easily changeable), you'll need to rig up something to get MS to control your DISA valve, you'll also lose knock control (or you'll need to build an extra circuit into megasquirt, and I don't think it will ever work as well as the factory setup)/EWS, if you have AC you'll lose the extra rpm that feeds the ecu when switched on, I'm not sure how well you'll be able to read fault codes off other modules in the car (you might be ok though), you'll lose OBD2 compliance etc.
Your current ECU is pretty modern and is arguably a much more complex bit of kit than megasquirt. changing it in many respects would be a backwards step. I'd never consider this on an m44 unless I was unable to remap the existing ECU. All this before considering that the M44 has a really good tune on it, and no matter how many hours development you put into megasquirt, I guarantee you you won't do any better on a really simplistic ECU than the 1000s of hours put in by BMW engineers on a very sophisticated ECU.
As for the LPG thing, sure strictly speaking it's possible, but if you use an injector channel for the LPG injectors, one for petrol, you won't even be able to run semi-sequential injection on either petrol or LPG, also your warmup enrichment will remain the same as when on petrol (which is no good for LPG), likewise with your accel enrichment. Megasquirt also doesn't take into account the vaporiser temperature or LPG pressure (varies by tank level), and you'll also lose the in-built safety features built into LPG ECUs unless you do a fair bit of extra work to megasquirt. You'll never get a perfect tune, and won't be able to switch over until warm. tbh it would be hard enough to get megasquirt to do LPG alone, let alone doing both petrol and LPG. which is why I use a Romano LPG ECU for my LPG setup, and megasquirt for petrol.
A piggyback would work better I reckon and be much less work.
2.1 318is, MS, LPG. 200bhp, 175ft/lbs GONE!
Boxster, e46 m3, e36 sport touring and alpina B3 3.0
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FlappySocks
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Tim's right, your not going to see any real running gains on an M44. As I already said, you need to ask yourself what you want out of it. From an educational stance, or just the cool factor of getting it running, then there is no harm in doing a Plug & Play version. You can simply revert it back when you get board, or sell the car.
It was a limited edition available towards the end of E36 production and were quite highly specced iirc.bodger wrote:didnt know they did e36 is' in 4 door
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pacerpete
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bss325i wrote:It was a limited edition available towards the end of E36 production and were quite highly specced iirc.bodger wrote:didnt know they did e36 is' in 4 door
Am i right in saying they were south african market cars brought in and sold new by a few enterprising BMW dealers , much to the annoyance of BMW GB ?
Dunno about that. I read a buyers guide in a mag aaaaaaages ago and it mentioned the four door variant being a limited edition.pacerpete wrote:bss325i wrote:It was a limited edition available towards the end of E36 production and were quite highly specced iirc.bodger wrote:didnt know they did e36 is' in 4 door
Am i right in saying they were south african market cars brought in and sold new by a few enterprising BMW dealers , much to the annoyance of BMW GB ?
The main reason i was thinking about an MS setup was to my knowledge the M44 ECU has no tuning options available, is this correct?
I thank Tims_s for his excellent input above, that has made me dis-regard an MS setup.
As far as im aware my iS may well have been built in South Africa, as i dont see any made in Germany stamps on the VIN.
The car has ASC, 4 electric windows, electric mirrors (not sure if heated or not), auto dipping rear view mirror, cloth trim.
I have added on 18 button OBC & the previous owner had some front fog lights retro fitted.
There used to be an e36 318iS 4 door that lives around the corner from me, but that had an M3 style front bumper & rear defuser (all lokked right for the car). Compared to that car, mine just looks billy basic.
Regards,
Pete.
I thank Tims_s for his excellent input above, that has made me dis-regard an MS setup.
As far as im aware my iS may well have been built in South Africa, as i dont see any made in Germany stamps on the VIN.
The car has ASC, 4 electric windows, electric mirrors (not sure if heated or not), auto dipping rear view mirror, cloth trim.
I have added on 18 button OBC & the previous owner had some front fog lights retro fitted.
There used to be an e36 318iS 4 door that lives around the corner from me, but that had an M3 style front bumper & rear defuser (all lokked right for the car). Compared to that car, mine just looks billy basic.
Regards,
Pete.
There's quite a few of them around in the UK, all late m44 ones. Pete might be right about them being SA cars, I've no idea really, but they're not really rare. There's some with the MTEC bits too, like most of the run-out 318is cars. In Germany they got a much earlier limited edition 4 door m42 for homologation for the STW, called the class 2, had same body bits and splitters etc as the m3 GT, the limited edition plaque on the dash, tasty seats. still normal engine and suspension etc though so not that exciting. That's prob the one you're thinking of barry.
2.1 318is, MS, LPG. 200bhp, 175ft/lbs GONE!
Boxster, e46 m3, e36 sport touring and alpina B3 3.0
The chassis plate on the RHD ones reads BMW AG West Germany but from memory the glass is South Ifrican. They are shocking rust heaps as well, I've seen 98 cars with the rear arches missing.
The 1994 car was made to homologate the M42 (S42) in a four door. Before that BMW raced them with the S14 2 litre. They all had the M3 4 door bodykit but with the twin layer boot spoiler with a set of raising blocks in the boot, 16 inch Z3 type five spokes and Coupe M Tech suspension. It was quite a nice thing, I've seen a couple in the past.
The 1994 car was made to homologate the M42 (S42) in a four door. Before that BMW raced them with the S14 2 litre. They all had the M3 4 door bodykit but with the twin layer boot spoiler with a set of raising blocks in the boot, 16 inch Z3 type five spokes and Coupe M Tech suspension. It was quite a nice thing, I've seen a couple in the past.
1 a custon remp is possibleThe main reason i was thinking about an MS setup was to my knowledge the M44 ECU has no tuning options available, is this correct?
2 a uni q piggyback will also work
3 Speak to Sal (e30 zone shop/evolve tunning) he can ramap the existing ecu on the dyno and also remap it with the supercarger.
4 downing alanta in the staes do a m44 supercharger kit.
Jason