S14 durability question

[astondg]

I have heard of a few E30 M3's recently (including one or two on the Zone) that have had engines break. I was just wondering if this is a common thing for the S14 or if it is just a coincidence that they have all happened together? I think they have all been the same problem too, the bottom end and they started to rattle or whatever. If this does happen a bit is it because of the engine or just that they tend to have hard lives or aren't serviced?

The S14 was made for racing and supposed to be strong but after hearing about these ones I wasn't sure. I know that going to the track puts extra strain on them but my M20 has done 261,000km and hasn't been looked after well by the previous owners but I have still got 1 1/2 years of motorsport and driving out of it and it still seems ok.

The reason I am asking is that I would like an M3 one day and I actually just saw one in the paper for much cheaper than they normally are here and it is still LHD so I can do the conversion properly myself. I know some people won't like that but I have no choice in Australia and I would do it properly with a quicker steering rack and a proper race type pedal box. Can't afford to repair an S14 all the time though. Of course I would get the M3 (and engine) poperly checked out before I bought it and serviced before I drove it.

Thanks,
Aston

[Boots_Walker]

yeah the S14 aint cheap to fix, i guess knowing the history of the car/engine is a good start. i've never heard of them being particularly fragile or anything, as youve said they built they motorsport engines tough. i would guess that any problems are likely to be caused by previous neglect/abuse...

i wonder if these bottom end failures could be due to oil starvation on the track, anybody know if the s14 has some decent baffling in the sump or anything?

its always going to be a bit of a gamble, just got to do everything you can to minimise the risks. how much is this car selling for?

[astondg]

I wondered about the oil starvation too. If it turned out that was the problem I would think about a sry sump, or at least price one.

There are 2 one is an 1988 M3 for about $22,000, the other is supposed to be a 1987 Evo and it is about $26,000. Both are left hand drive. I went to see them today, they are both diamond schwartz I think. Prices are AUD and other E30 M3's I have seen are between $35,000 and $45,000.

The '88 M3 is in better condition and it is actually very good apart from a few small dents that I think would come out with that suction/electromagnetic stuff they do now. The only problem with it is that it used to be red and has been repainted. The paint on the body is very good and even with the doors open it looks fine but the engine bay and inside the boot are still red. It looks like a very good job, even where the red a black meet it still looks professional, they just left those parts red. Probably red under the carpet and stuff too. Also has 17" Hartge wheels.

The '87 M3 is supposed to be an Evo (an Evo 1 I presume?), it has an extra part on the boot spoiler and apparently with the exhaust and camshaft it has it is supposed to be close to 220hp. It has a couple of small scrapes on the paint and a few small dents but I think they could all be repaired ok. Engine bay looks a little worn but repairable. The interior is a bit worse though, front drivers seat has been replaced with a worn out race type seat and the original seat is missing. The radio and steering wheel are also missing and the dash is marked and scratched a bit but that wouldn't matter because I would need another RHD dash anyway and I could buy my own radio/CD player. I also already have proper Recaros in my 323i that I could probably use anyway. Other than that they look ok.

Anyway if anyone else can give me some more input about the S14 it would be good, I think there are a few owners here? Otherwise I'll just put it down to hard use and maybe poor maintenence.

Thanks,

Aston

[c76jon]

hi
s14s are very very strong engines no question
i think that previous neglect and abuse usually is a main culprit in major failure
also they way they are driven affects
these engines rev well and make all their power very high up rev range subsequently they will have been revved which isnt a problem but they are not supposed to be revved anywhere near hard until engine oil is over 50 degrees who knows what a said car has been treated like


a point i will make is that many people refer to these cars as track cars...

in fact they are not they are road cars made so bmw could use them competitivly as track cars
bmw used the track variant and we got the road going car

my point is that a road going e30 m3 is a car that adapts to the track very very well even by todays standards but they are not track cars

track cars are seam welded ,massive brakes etc etc

oil starvation can be a problem on road car at extremes and uprated sumps are available

the evo 1 you speak about
these cars were 200 bhp standard
they had no extra part on rear spoiler
a cam and exhaust would be hard pushed to make the claimed 220hp
they were made between feb and may 1987
chassis numbers were 2190005-2190787 and 505 were made

to look at they are identical to standard m3

apart from chassis number there is a mark on head if i remember correctly that determines that ....well at least the head is from evo 1 !!!!

john

[Simon]

Personally, I haven't heard of many failures, only the recent one, Imran's car I think it was. As has been said, with the right maintenance, and money spent in the right places, they should go on forever. I read s14.net quite regular, and there's quite a few 300km+ cars on there (mostly US owners).

With regards to the cars you mentioned above, the one that's been painted a different colour..I personally could not live with.

[astondg]

the evo 1 you speak about
these cars were 200 bhp standard
they had no extra part on rear spoiler
a cam and exhaust would be hard pushed to make the claimed 220hp
they were made between feb and may 1987
chassis numbers were 2190005-2190787 and 505 were made

to look at they are identical to standard m3

apart from chassis number there is a mark on head if i remember correctly that determines that ....well at least the head is from evo 1 !!!!

Interesting. This car definately has an extra part to the rear spoiler, the guy selling it said it was adjustable. He also said it has an upgraded (but still factory) camshaft over the normal car and a different exhaust (not sure if factory or otherwise). It has 16" BBS wheels too, they look like they are 2 piece. Maybe it is more like the Evo 2? They both are US spec though so they have the 4.1 LSD and no dog leg gearbox with 1:1 5th. I didn't think that any Evo would have that drivetrain so maybe it is a normal M3 with Evo parts and maybe engine? I'll check those numbers and the head, thanks very much for that!

I know what you mean about the paint but to me it wouldn't matter, it still looks proffessional so I wouldn't care. I imagine it would make it very difficult to sell though, and I would have to sell it cheap. Unless I got it repainted red again but I don't like red so much.

Sounds like the engines are fine as long as I get it checked out and then maintain it properly.

Thanks,

Aston

[Boots_Walker]

those adjustable spoilers came on the sport evo, they seem to be a pretty common add on for m3's

and as far as i know there were no evo models delivered to the us market, if its got the standard US drivetrain i'd say its almost certainly not an evo (perhaps an expert can confirm this)

if that 88 car is clean and you dont mind the paint it would be a really nice car for $20k - would be harder to sell though

[c76jon]

hi
as already said the only adjustable rear spoiler fitted to any m3 was on a sport evo
no evolution models were supplied in usa at all
there are quite a few US cars that have evo2 cams fitted as an upgrade

evo 2 engine from factory has white rocker cover and plenum with "M" stripes on them
but i doubt any of these engines are in the US as they were non cat engines and extremely rare

john

[astondg]

The car is actaully from Japan, but it has the normal gearbox (no dog leg) so I presume it has the US drivetrain. I know of a few others from Japan that have the same drivetrain too.

It has a black rocker cover so must just be an normal M3 but with an Evo 2 cam, sport evo rear spoiler, and 16" BBS wheels.

I think I probably won't be getting one of these though .

The Evo type one would be perfect to leave LHD and use as a race car but I can't afford a car to use only for racing at the moment. It would probably be too expensive for me to convert to RHD and fix it up for a road car when it is $26,000 to buy.

The normal M3 would be great as a road car and I could probably afford it if I got a loan but with the red paint I think it would be too hard to sell later and repainting it properly, either back to red or completely in the new colour, would cost too much.

I would like the dog leg gearbox and 3.25 LSD as well if I bought one.

The reason I can't just leave them though is because the import rules have changed in Australia now and it might be difficult/impossible for me to import another one later and the ones that are already here are (even after I convert these to RHD) $7,000 to $15,000 more expensive and I don't know how well their RHD conversions were done.

Thanks for all the help, I am not worried about getting an S14 in the future now.

Aston