Project: Rear Mount Turbo 327i

[daimlerman]

I cannot see the turbo getting hot enough to need an oil cooler,if the oil tank is mounted in one of the side pockets and piped to the aprox location of the rear box,the pipework should be long enough to act as a cooler? The long feed pipe will give the same effect as an intercooler...just a point on clearance,is it cross section area that is important for this or must it be circular? Thinking ground clearance and an oval or oblong section may help...

[ric325i]

Ouch!!! Iv just been quoted €4000 for an ECU install. Or €1200 for a stock ECU remap. 1200 to some guy whos gonna spend 10 hours behind a laptop??? Im working in the wrong job!

Thanks for the help! keep it comming...

ouch you want megasquirt me thinks? try fozzy and ant cause they are your key


im guessing 327ire is from Ireland with all this euro talk.




in ppc it was a nice little 4pot 1.9 (iirc?) do you think the larger capacity and longer length of the e30 will cause any issue's.

all hypothetical for now i guess.

[e30_Turbo]

Some of the guys in the states have used the diff oil cooler fixings and a small pump to use the diff oil in the turbo, saves running long oil lines up and down the car.

My main concern would be getting it all airtight, I've had to change so many gaskets and seals due to boost, stock ones never see positive pressure so most, especially after a good few years will just blow out or blow past.

Bottle of soapy water and some compressed air will show up most of the air leaks.

[daimlerman]

Some of the guys in the states have used the diff oil cooler fixings and a small pump to use the diff oil in the turbo, saves running long oil lines up and down the car.

My main concern would be getting it all airtight, I've had to change so many gaskets and seals due to boost, stock ones never see positive pressure so most, especially after a good few years will just blow out or blow past.

Bottle of soapy water and some compressed air will show up most of the air leaks.

Would have thought that a seperate system would be easier to set up,a small tank,pump and feed/return to the turbo,to cool it a simple vent to let passing air over/around the tank..

[ric325i]

I've a love for PPC too, meeting Ed Hall in about 24 hrs

does that mean the fozzymonster is getting in ppc?
watch out he doesnt crash your motor

Has he a habit of this then?
?

crashing his own motors not really others
guess we will have to see if it shows in the mag then.
back on topic sorry.

[327ire]

Youve guessed it, Im in Ireland (wexford).

This ECU business is really slowing things down and doubling my budget! I dont think Im going to be able to go down the DIY ecu route. It seems a bit laborious.

Iv a contact that has boosted e30s before with stock ECUs. Just an uprated pump + injectors. He seems like the man for the job. Still, 1200€ for 2 days on a Dyno seems like a fortune.

The oil system is a go (just a filter needed). Its got a small cooler 2.



The exhaust noise is canceled with the turbo, but not enough for my taste. Iv bought a middle box thats 11" long. Im making a bumper extension as it will poke out a couple of inches.

[e30_Turbo]

I've only the one silencer in my exhaust and it's tiny, about 15 inches long, it's also a 3inch system turbo to backbox, inc tail pipe and is only loud when 'aving it!

At cruise around 80/90 it's silent, well nearly, my car share buddy was shocked when we got it out on the road first time as the exhaust note just disapears when cruising.

MS is real easy once you've figured it, A-Tech supply a plug & play loom, instructions and a base map and I'm sure once fitted all you will have is mapping costs/dyno time to get it sorted.

I would not suggest using the moronic ECU for anything else other than running a stock engine or a paperweight.

There are "boost chips" available for the M20 but you're limited to what changes can be made to start with, there's only so much tweakability, hence why I bought my first MS V2.2 and gave away my RRFPR! It's just to crude to be reliable and prone to running weak and rich as you can't set it up for every situation, you just get one setting which will mean some of the fueling will be out.

[ric325i]

fuzzy i need a go in you turbo!

my 3 inch system (which is getting sold now) was ace but too loud! i didnt have a turbo and that big six and a noisy lump.

one large/long centre box should do the job with the turbo.

i think jetex parts section do one one 625mm in length but its narrow

http://www.jetex.co.uk/website/custom_p ... a=3.0+inch


longest they do for 2 inch is 41cm but its not too wide/deep to affect back pressure for the turbo

[appletree]

Cool project mate keep up the good work and keep us updated with lots of pics please

[FormerMember]

Ok, it really is different but i still can't see any sense in turboing almost anything like that.

I bet you won't get over 200hp out of that, ever.

Man I cant wait to prove you wrong!!!!!!

Feel free to prove me wrong!

[FormerMember]

Well done that man for having a go at this. All the doubters and armchair experts should keep quiet until it is finished.

+1

Its all well and good to flame someone for trying something different, but at least they are trying it, not sat behind a keyboard pi$$ing on everyone else who can be bothered to get up and give something different a go.
Nice one 327ire

Well, trying and doing something is good, but doing something stupid is totally different thing.
When building cars & engines, one should always remember the laws of physics, because that's where this all is based on. In this project, all physic laws have been forgotten, that's why this won't be even nearly as efficient as "normal" turbo setup.

But, each to their own. I was just trying to point out that rearmount turbo is not good way to turbo your car.

Just my 2 cents..

[327ire]

My main reason for doing it this way is money. Not to be different. Although I am enjoying the challenge. Im a school teacher so I have 3 months of payed holidays to piss around and turbo me ride

Costs are::::::::::::::

Mechanical end: (DIY)
£800 or €1000

Tuning end (pro job)
£950 or €1200

Hidden bits (tools, welding, etc.)
£240 or €300


Which give me a grand total of::::::

£2000 or €2500

[Jon_Bmw]

Stop reminding me of how strong the euro is!!!!!

[327ire]

Can anyone help me with installing a air/fuel ratio gauge? I cant find the o2 sensor. Pelicanparts gives an image but it aint on my car!



And P.S. heres what im driving while the 2.7 is on blocks (the grill is from a mkII golf GTI, which has since been removed)

[Jon_Bmw]

I highly doubt your M20 engine has a lamba sensor as its probably just running a chipped motronic ECU.

Another positive of standalone. It has the ability to show what the lamba sensor is reading and make adjustments.

I have never seen a grill like that before, i actually quite like it, in a wrong sort of way. But i have always liked my mk2 golfs which it reminds me of.

EDIT: Just seen the bit where you said it was off a mk2 golf

[327ire]

I think the turbo has a lamba sensor! Theres a termo type of a thing with wires that can be taken in and out of the turbo.... hum.... i almost threw it away!

P.S heres another view

[e30_Turbo]

Get a piccie up of the lambda sensor, some are mounted in the housings.

I use a innovate LC-1 sensor and control box, £150 or so, only really needed for self tuning or running closed loop.

There are others out there now, back in the day innovate where market leaders, there's a few UK WB suppliers now and MS has most of the settings preset.

Fozz.

[327ire]

Now,... this is probably going to get me grief,.. however,... what if i installed

1. an FMU,
2. and a air/fuel meter,
3. and a fuel pressure guage

Could I run boost for a few weeks if the air/fuel looked OK until I get it tuned (RR/ remap)?? Im just dying (maybe thats a pun) to get it up and running.

[FormerMember]

My main reason for doing it this way is money. Not to be different. Although I am enjoying the challenge.

Yes, but still, making that thing "the original way", doesn't cost more than you're paying now. You need all the bits anyways.

But hey, do it your way, it's always nice to see something different.

[327ire]

Well,.. if all else fails, at least I have all the bits to do it the conventional way. (Bar spending a grand on a manifold and Intercooler)

[daimlerman]

Good on you for trying this,wish my school teachers had thought the way you do!! When you wiegh it up,exhaust pressure spins the turbo,therefore exhaust pressure will be the same at the rear or the car as it is at the manifold,the only thing that changes is exhaust temperature,hence you do not need the added cost/complication of an intercooler.By my rule of thumb,you should see a gain of at least 20bhp,any more should be regarded as bonus...regarding exhaust pressure,we used to stick potatoes up the exhausts of teachers cars that we hated, one mate 'borrowed' a mallet from the woodworking shop to do a proper job,the teacher split the back box when he attempted to go home...

[Jon_Bmw]

the only thing that changes is exhaust temperature,hence you do not need the added cost/complication of an intercooler.

The exhuast gases arn't the gases that travel back to the throttle body! They just spin a turbine, which is connected on a shaft to another turbine(which pulls in 'fresh' cold air) The compression of air, above atmospheric is what heats the air up.

The distance the compressed 'fresh' air travels 'may' be enough to cool it sufficiently so that it doesn't need an intercooler.

With this project, there are so many unknowns, it could end up costing as much as the conventional way due to people not knowing the answer and things going pop

[e30_Turbo]

Now,... this is probably going to get me grief,.. however,... what if i installed

1. an FMU,
2. and a air/fuel meter,
3. and a fuel pressure guage

Could I run boost for a few weeks if the air/fuel looked OK until I get it tuned (RR/ remap)?? Im just dying (maybe thats a pun) to get it up and running.

How many wires are coming out of the sensor?

And yes you can use a FMU to run the fueling and yes it's a half-solution, would see you through on low boost and plenty of watching the AFRS.

One thing to note is the sparks will need attention, no wild chips or star chips etc, get a standard one in there, mine lasted me up to about 9psi before I couldn't dial out the det with fuel.

All these reasons convinced me and many others that standalone is the ONLY way to control it properly and once you've blown it up a few times and replaced head gaskets etc you'll soon realise it's def worth spending out at the beggining.

Don't get me wrong it can still all go pearshaped with standalone but atleast you can make changes to prevent it happening next time.

Fozz.

[327ire]

Thanks!!

The sensor plug has just one male spade connection.

Do you know anyone with the stock chip? I broke mine when taking it out.

[GrindCulture]

Great to see this coming along, and on a side not I really like that golf grill

[old_skool]

Thanks!!

The sensor plug has just one male spade connection.

Do you know anyone with the stock chip? I broke mine when taking it out.

The sensor is more than likely a temperature sensor, not a lambda.

Great project, keep coming with the updates

[327ire]

Just found a pleasant image,....



Will I have to use a special air/fuel meter as its only one wire?

[327ire]

Update,.....

Iv got all the heat resistant stuff today. Graphite wrap 10m x 2" and Graphite sheets A4 x .5mm. Im guessing the turbo will get hotter than a backbox would usually so Im uprating the heat shield and around the turbo. Its a mere 1" away from the spare tyre compartment.

This means that the material (resistant to 1000 - 3500˚c) will be in contact with the car. Will this be a problem?

[E30BeemerLad]

the CT 26 turbo is what is fitted to a MK3 Turbo Supra, they are quite a big turbo

[327ire]

I think theyre twin turbo. The Toyota MRII 2l turbo uses this one. Theyre at about 230bhp stock I think and its a 2l engine so I reckon my 2.7 low end torque should get it spooling quick enough and have some headroom to go beyond 230bhp.

[JJ26]

The CT26 was the turbo used on early (89 - 93) Celica GT fours and MR2`s. Later models used the CT20 which was slightly smaller in size giving better response and still delivering the same flow of air at its peak.

Oh and no celica or mr2 was ever twin turbo, people get confused by word of mouth on this. Its 'Dual Entry Ceramic Turbo' Dual entry is the way the exhaust gases are routed into the turbo, 1 and 4, 2 and 3 cylinders together like any decent tubular manifold. Ceramic turbo refers to the Exaust turbine, whic was ceramic on Jdm import engines only suppsedly.

[327ire]

So,.... everything is ready to be plumed in. Should just take an hour to get the flanges welded to the turbo. one issue tho...

Just turned my motor on, it hasnt been fired up in 40 days (waiting on a fuel rail). It sounds like a machine gun! The exhaust is fine but it seems the noise is coming from the head. Could it be the tappets? It has been sitting on two right tyres for a few weeks (and still is), could that be creating issues?

thanks!!!!

[oldroydsr4]

The CT26 is a good turbo.

I had a mr2 turbo making 370bhp (dyno proven)with 19psi of boost, but this is the limit of the turbo nd was recommended to go bigger if more power was required.

[327ire]

370bhp??? 250 will do me thanks! The wastegate is set to 7psi isnt it?

Looks like im gonna go for a piggy back and RR tuning. Im being delayed due to a ceased handbrake. the handbrake itself works fine but the leftside rear wheel aint moving. the right is. gur

[stonesie]

To un-sieze your handbrake should be easy, jack it up, remove the wheel then give the drum part of the disk some firm taps with a hammer with the handbrake off. 99% of the time this shocks the shoes loose.