Project: Rear Mount Turbo 327i

[327ire]

Yes, you heard me, a turbo in the back of my e30.

Iv a 327i e30 1988 and have being toying with the idea of turbo charging but I had decided to forget about it coz of the costs. The recent Practical Performance Car mag has a Peugeot 205 GTI with a turbo where the silencer goes. The mag say it drives every bit as good as a normal turbo'd N/A car,... so.....

[march109]

Be prepared to take some stick, but imo the world would be boring if everyone did the same things and discounted other solutions. Good luck.

[secondtimelucky]

As above really, although the dump valve noise coming from the rear would leave alot of confused faces behind you

[johnl320]

I love it, good on ya, keep the pics coming.

john

[327ire]

-Its a Toyota MR2 turbo
-2" pipes with silicone connections (+2" straight exhaust)
-Toyota starlet top mount intercooler
-Independent oil pump /sump /cooler in the back


The air intake will be routed back into the rear passenger side boot compartment so Im gonna have to install a vent for a cold air feed (! I have a reason to install a vent, nice)

Ill need some help with installing the oil unit. I have a 12v pump and a cooler rad. Im looking for an inline oil filter. Iv put a petrol inline filter from a carb engine and guess what,.... it dont work.





So,.. Im about 70% of the way through the project (as long as nothing goes wrong)


Iv set up the oil system in the back and got it running.

The pipes are all set up apart from connecting the exhaust to the turbo.

The top mount intercooler from the starlet has been isolated on the engine bay. Iv used an electric fan (a "supercharger" I was suckerd into from the land of ebay) to provide a constant supply of fresh cold air to the cooler. This means that even when im not in motion the cooler should do its job.



Iv decided to mount the battery in the back on the opposite side to even up the weight. The balance should be quite good now with a heavy turbo and battery in the rear bottom of the car. My 2.7 block is a heavy b***h.



I need a couple of bits of advice,.....

1. Where should I wire in the oil pump in the back? I was thinking the fuel pump wire? It would be activated as soon as the key turns. Iv looked at the pump and therez 3 wires,... which is the positive???

2. Iv just bought 42lb injectors. Can I drive with them in until i get a remap? Or will I need to keep the stock ones in until I get down to the tuning place?

3. Is it possible to do this without a new ECU???? I have a remap chip in already but I have been budgeting towards a full day on the rollers.

[chu346]

1. Where should I wire in the oil pump in the back? I was thinking the fuel pump wire? It would be activated as soon as the key turns. Iv looked at the pump and therez 3 wires,... which is the positive???

2. Iv just bought 42lb injectors. Can I drive with them in until i get a remap? Or will I need to keep the stock ones in until I get down to the tuning place?

3. Is it possible to do this without a new ECU???? I have a remap chip in already but I have been budgeting towards a full day on the rollers.

1. What colours are the wires?
2. Keep the stock ones in.
3. A remap chip is nothing like a new ecu.

Doing a rear mount turbo is one thing but you should do some more homework, especially on the ecu front. If you put in new injectors that are 3 times bigger than stock how is the ecu going to know? It'll be trying to put 3 times more fuel in than before and probably won't even start.

Also the standard ecu won't be able to read boost so you need to find a way around this. The easiest and best option is a different ecu/ add on of some sort, budget for that.

[327ire]

Thanks chu346. I have a 316i e30 as my run around so Im not without an e30 while this project is on the go.
P.S. This is me doing my homework!

[Jhonno]

Wouldnt be keen on driving it in the wet.. But think you are the 1st to do it on an e30

[327ire]

Keep the feedback coming!!

The air intake is in the boot so rain shouldnt matter. And the balance of the car is much improved now with the turbo
on the left and the battery on the right rear of the car. Or maybe im missing something?



So whats a budget way of getting a new ecu? I see ebay megasquirts are going for $300 ish

link

[maxfield]

Hero

[secondtimelucky]

Maxfield----->>>

[maxfield]

He is a hero for being different!

Many people have slated this idea.

So it will be good to see what difference it makes.

[GrindCulture]

I've read that people in the states have been running low boost turbos on stock ECUs, didn't read much into it as I don't have an M20 and don't plan to turbo one any time soon. I've never been entirely sure on the point of rear mount turbos, but it's really cool to see someone giving it a go. I shall await the results with great anticipation

[Colonel Sanders]

have a look at these, lots of info, a couple of people on here have done it.
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread ... rbo&page=5
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread ... ount+turbo

[327ire]

The turbo Im running is an MR2 set to about 7psi.

Iv found a turbo m20 with a stock ECU running 8psi with 24lb injectors (which run as normal without mods)


Iv bought a "How to Turbo" guide a while ago which says you can use "Check Valves" between the MAP sensor
(on the throttle body). It bypasses or bleeds boost to the ECU. I think the sensor is under the TB.

[chu346]

You won't be able to use 42lb injectors with the stock ecu.

When using the stock ecu you don't have much control over fueling and it will be running either rich or lean and will damage the engine.

Just because afew people have done it doesn't mean you should do it.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ight=rrfpr

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/index.php

[GrindCulture]

I think it would be a good idea to go down the MS route, get all the bits you need, do some (more) research and have a go at mapping it yourself, most of the people who I've come across that did this said that it was a fair bit easier than they anticipated.

[327ire]

Oooooh now youve done it. If I can DIY I will!!!! I think thats half the reason Im into cars in general, I HATE paying someone crazy money for something that I can learn it myself (from wonderful sites like this)! Who knows, maybe Ill learn a turbo trade.

Can you recommend any links for megasquirt installs in e30s?
Thanks!

[327ire]

Is it possible to plug the megasquirt directly and completely into the stock harness? Or will I have to route some of the wires directly to the engine parts?

[tari]

Very interesting...

Good luck mate, nice to see someone trying something a bit different!

[Jonsku]

Ok, it really is different but i still can't see any sense in turboing almost anything like that.

-First of all, that thing won't be efficient because of the heat dissipation between engine and turbo. Especially when raining / wet.
-Secondly, the turbo lag will be huge.
-Third, trunk space lessens

Why, oh why you don't do it the way it's best done?

Like this, of course with smaller turbo and different intake manifold if you run out of money, but you get the idea.


I bet you won't get over 200hp out of that, ever.

[e30_Turbo]

Is it possible to plug the megasquirt directly and completely into the stock harness? Or will I have to route some of the wires directly to the engine parts?

Yes you can, A-Tech ( Ant ) has a plug & play adapter sorted out.

But it's not very hard to wire in a seperate loom as there aren't many wires and sensors to worry about. I've had two MS's in mine on seperate looms and had no dramas because of that. You can hijack some basic sensors like the VR and use the stock wiring and it makes sense too.

If you're going to go MS then let us know and we'll try and help sort the right version and help you get it started.

Fozz.

[ric325i]

^ good man fozz. finally someone who wants to help!

i hate PPC mag.........it just gets me thinking 'i can do that' keeps me awake at night planning crazy ideas

best mag you can buy! except the one with the naked ladies but im not aloud to buy them




they said the key to this was the standard thin exhaust to keep the back pressure where it should be and reduce lag. looks like you have a great set up.


will the boot need some venting? does the boot draw in enough air?

[e30_Turbo]

^ good man fozz. finally someone who wants to help!

I'm not one to pick at others projects, we all should try different things, keeps life interesting!

I remember the comments made when I shared my project, the classis " that deisel turbo will melt on a petrol engine"

Well it hasn't.

We all should be here to help others, not flame them for trying something a little out of the box, which to be honest is where I and Ant was about three years ago when we decided to Boost our e30's.

I've a love for PPC too, meeting Ed Hall in about 24 hrs

[Alyman]

Can you recommend any links for megasquirt installs in e30s?
Thanks!

http://wiki.diyefi.co.uk/

I think a Zoner set this up, should have a lot of useful info if you're going down that route.

[ric325i]

^ good man fozz. finally someone who wants to help!

I've a love for PPC too, meeting Ed Hall in about 24 hrs

does that mean the fozzymonster is getting in ppc?


watch out he doesnt crash your motor

[327ire]

Ouch!!! Iv just been quoted €4000 for an ECU install. Or €1200 for a stock ECU remap. 1200 to some guy whos gonna spend 10 hours behind a laptop??? Im working in the wrong job!

Thanks for the help! keep it comming...

[327ire]

Ok, it really is different but i still can't see any sense in turboing almost anything like that.

I bet you won't get over 200hp out of that, ever.

Man I cant wait to prove you wrong!!!!!!

[e30_Turbo]

^ good man fozz. finally someone who wants to help!

I've a love for PPC too, meeting Ed Hall in about 24 hrs

does that mean the fozzymonster is getting in ppc?


watch out he doesnt crash your motor

Might be

Has he a habit of this then?

@ 327ire

Where are you based?

[Aiello]

hey man just wanted to say cool project, i know rear mounts are for the cars that are strict on space but if your trying to make a sleeper car im sure it will be cool, just wanted to know how your going to deal with the sound of the exhaust screaming out the turbo 30cm from the back of the car, do you still just throw on a muffler or what?

And from what i understand aslong as the system is set up correctly you shouldnt cop that much lag from the turbo just make sure you got plenty of air flow in that boot and dont leave any loose plastic bags to get sucked to the pod for the love of god, lol

[E30BeemerLad]

Well done that man for having a go at this. All the doubters and armchair experts should keep quiet until it is finished.

It may not be as efficient as a snail mounted to the manifold and full intercooler set up but it will undoubtedly give a healthy rise in power for minimal outlay compared to the traditional method.

I'm watching this with very keen interest as I too spotted the PPC feature and also plan to do this to my M50 in due course. The pug in PPC already had an emerald ECU so there may be an issue on the electrical side with fuelling etc.

[daimlerman]

Where in the world are you,OP? This is a great idea,the PPC article read very well,would like to see the finished car 'in the flesh'.To get more than 200bhp from any M20 costs mega bucks,my 2.7 build cost me around £1500 to get 178bhp,IMO each 10bhp gained from this point will cost £1000.So if you can reach the magic figure for less cash we should all be interested.For your oil pump,I would have thought that any ignition live would do the job,the extra drain whilst cranking the engine will be minimal.I would be inclined to box in all the gubbins in the boot and arrange a vent on the rear side panel.For a more 'sleeper' look,why not put the intake in the spare wheel well,you could vent it at the back to discourage water ingress...then carry one of those aerosol tyre sealant thingys you keep in 'er indoors car to save 'er from having to swap a flat tyre...

[Jon_Bmw]

Nissan 200sx' have an oil cooler and pump for the differential.

As this seems more of a budget project(I like budget projects btw) this may be an option?

On a normal turbo car, the oil that is passing through the turbo has been through an oil cooler, but unless you used the 200sx idea or similar, there would be nothing to cool the oil that is passing through the turbo. Now whether you need to cool oil that is ONLY travelling through a turbo, i do not know. Its something that would need to be investigated in my opinion.

[ric325i]

daimler that a cracking idea!

get it in the tyre well! and get some venting that way you wont have the body showing anything.


more people must be getting excited about this. e30beemerlad i remember you saying you planned to turbo the m50 in the same way. good man.


as for silencers........the turbo is one

[jmc330i]

Well done that man for having a go at this. All the doubters and armchair experts should keep quiet until it is finished.

+1

Its all well and good to flame someone for trying something different, but at least they are trying it, not sat behind a keyboard pi$$ing on everyone else who can be bothered to get up and give something different a go.
Nice one 327ire

I would be inclined to box in all the gubbins in the boot and arrange a vent on the rear side panel.

There is already a pretty big vent in the rear quarter panel and it exits behind the side of the bumper, should be good enough for the sleeper look
Looking at the pics on page 1, it cant be too far from where the air filter is now (in the 6th pic).