Removing swirl marks from paint(now messing with composites)

[Turbo-Brown]

I've spent most of the day sorting out all the little dinks and frilly bits on my boot lid, have flatted it all back using 1500 wet and dry and ofcourse I've got a nice swirly lid now

Any tips for getting it nice and glass smooth?

Cheers!

Alex

[oakey]

I've spent most of the day sorting out all the little dinks and frilly bits on my boot lid, have flatted it all back using 1500 wet and dry and ofcourse I've got a nice swirly lid now

Any tips for getting it nice and glass smooth?

Cheers!

Alex

Go over it again with 2000 then 2500. It will take forever to polish out scratches from 1500 grit paper alex

[BMracing]

I used G10 cutting compound on a spoiler I restored on my old mazda, after initially using 1500 or 2000 wet and dry i think. It was solid classic red paint, it worked superbly. You have to be really gentle with it though, its surprising how quickly it can cut through paint!

[d6dph]

For a final finishing sealant (important on red paints) Look into some Bilt Hamber auto balm.

It has the wet glossy appearance of a wax, durability of a sealant and optical fillers that mask swirls. Best part is it is really sensibly priced imo.

I will be doing a test on my car soon, I can post the pics if people are interested?

[Lacy]

I can heartily recommend Auto balm....I have just used it on my cabby.....use a slightly damp applicator and use the tinyest amount....no powdery residue and a fantastic finish. Having done the whole car you wouldn't think any had gone out of the tub so it will go a long way. I can also recommend their clay bar too. Good price, big bar and does a great job of getting all the cack off the paint before the auto balm.

[HartgeH27]

I've spent most of the day sorting out all the little dinks and frilly bits on my boot lid, have flatted it all back using 1500 wet and dry and ofcourse I've got a nice swirly lid now

Any tips for getting it nice and glass smooth?

Cheers!

Alex

Take a short drive down the A325 and I will happily spend some time with my portercable/compounds to remove them for you...............

[essexboy]

I've spent most of the day sorting out all the little dinks and frilly bits on my boot lid, have flatted it all back using 1500 wet and dry and ofcourse I've got a nice swirly lid now

Any tips for getting it nice and glass smooth?

Cheers!

Alex

Take a short drive down the A325 and I will happily spend some time with my portercable/compounds to remove them for you...............

i'll go 2nd Iain

[georob]

Are all the brilliantrots not coated with lacquer? Mine is and peeling

[HartgeH27]

I've spent most of the day sorting out all the little dinks and frilly bits on my boot lid, have flatted it all back using 1500 wet and dry and ofcourse I've got a nice swirly lid now

Any tips for getting it nice and glass smooth?

Cheers!

Alex

Take a short drive down the A325 and I will happily spend some time with my portercable/compounds to remove them for you...............

i'll go 2nd Iain

Thats what I have heard !!!!

Welcome anytime, you buy the burgers, half day at E-tech and job done !!

[Turbo-Brown]

Awesome, will visit you when I get round to doing the bonnet if that's alright dude!

Gave the lid a thorough going over with T-cut this evening which seemed to get rids of a reasonable amount of swirls, and then set-to with the carnuba wax which, after two coats, seems to be doing the trick!

Only another six or seven coats left then Takes about 45 mins to do a coat, buff it up and then wait until you can do the next one!

[aceraf]

I wouldn't apply more than 2 coats of wax. You'll probably just strip what's underneath and end up wasting time/effort/wax.

2 coats should be fine. What wax are you using?

I've found Collinite 915 and Chemical Guys - XXX Hardcore Paste Wax to be very good (i've had the CG on since january and it's still beading nicely!)

[HartgeH27]

Awesome, will visit you when I get round to doing the bonnet if that's alright dude!

Gave the lid a thorough going over with T-cut this evening which seemed to get rids of a reasonable amount of swirls, and then set-to with the carnuba wax which, after two coats, seems to be doing the trick!

Only another six or seven coats left then Takes about 45 mins to do a coat, buff it up and then wait until you can do the next one!

Email me some dates and we can do this soonish !!!

iainham@bigfoot.com

[Turbo-Brown]

My motivation for getting the panel smooth is a little different than the norm in this case. I'm preping it to take a mould from so the wax I'm using is actually a release agent which appears to be mostly carnuba.

Says for new moulds and formers that you should apply 6-8 coats!

Will e-mail you later on today dude

[aceraf]

My motivation for getting the panel smooth is a little different than the norm in this case. I'm preping it to take a mould from so the wax I'm using is actually a release agent which appears to be mostly carnuba.

Says for new moulds and formers that you should apply 6-8 coats!

Will e-mail you later on today dude

Okay, that's different then...wax away

[march109]

Its gonna take you aaaages Alex, trust me I've been there.

I've taken a wee break from moulding lately, just can't motivate myself. Its such a PITA,

[Turbo-Brown]

It's all part of the fun to me Gareth Isn't that just the most pathetic and sad thing!

Iain, just sent you a belated e-mail (and spelled your name wrong in it really sorry!)

[cliffybabe]

[Turbo-Brown]

Will pop some up tomorrow.

The last coat of release agent is drying as we speak so I'll be giving my first go at fibreglassing a go tomoz

[Turbo-Brown]

Well as promised, here's a pic of the boot lid I've been working on.

It's been waxed 7 times I think and I'd applied some PVA release agent to it yesterday (2 coats) plus made a dam around the edges using plasticine.

Then it rained and the garage roof leaked. That wouldn't be a problem except that there was a table under the leak and the drips bounced off that and got on the panel

Anyway, just been out and re-applied the PVA which has actually gone on better this time (had to wash the old stuff off first!)



Will do some more coats now I've got a reasonable application technique, hope that no more bloody bugs commit suicide in it and then start making the mould this week hopefully!

[stuartgallafant]

you making up some fibreglass bootlids and bonnets then?

i might have a pair off you if they're good quality?

[Turbo-Brown]

I was gonna do them in carbon fibre, but more just as an experiment so I imagine the finish will leave something to be desired.

We'll see though, might turn out well!

Got front wings, possibly door skins and definately a bond in sunroof panel as the sunroof itself weighs a surprising amount!

[Turbo-Brown]

Oh for the love of God!

Tried putting another coat of PVA release agent on tonight (I've been putting one coat a night on so it has about 24 hours to dry) but for some reason, this coat lifted all the others off!

Think I might just strip all the paint off, give the bare steel a good release coat and laminate onto that to save all the pissing about with finishing the paint off nicely and trying to get 10 coats of release stuff to stay put!

[march109]

Alex there are other ways, and to be honest as long as you have one good sacraficial layer its all good.

Perhaps starting with something smaller would have helped then you wouldn't have to spend so long on prepping it to see what techniques work for you.

And as for the plastercine, I thought you were making a mould as a template for the final piece not moulding straight off the original piece, in which case it will actually be slightly too large??

I'm so narked with moulding lately that I started making some novelty bits in carbon fibre, a mate of mine works for an F1 suppler and I made him a CF name plate for his desk, he is now the envy of his office, however its so light it does go walkies in the slightest breeze!

[Turbo-Brown]

I used the plasticine to make a kind of draft angle to ensure the mould would release from the panel. It's like a skirt around the very edge of the panel.

To be honest, I'm enjoying the learning process of it all and like all these things, you (hopefully) get better each time you try

Did occur to me that the finished panel would be oversized if I kept building up layers of release agent.

I reckon just stripping the paint off, waxing the surface and then making a mould will see me right in the end, will use the plasticine again though as my release draft angle

[march109]

Yeah you will get better and better each time thats for sure, thats why I'd recommend making your first few parts smaller (less waste on materials ).

Provided you don't use way too many layers and you mould the final piece from the boot itself it shouldn't be too oversized. Certainly usable anyway. My first boot lid was appaling. By my 5th they were better than the GRP ones you can buy in on other online stores.

I don't normally do parts for other people though especially as its soo bloody boring. I'm getting some e36 parts in soon and will start prototyping. Doing a few parts for a certain m3 BUT again being LHD I can't find the normal parts to mould from for a decent price especially as they will be sacrificed with numerous reshaping and forming practises.

I also fancy using lost foam forming and clever use of perspex to manufacture a CF coolant header tank with window to check the level, I'm allready reading up on my chemisty to enable me to do it. Made a CF cover for my rocker cover too that looks spangly but doubt I'lll ever use it as I have something else up my sleeve.

[Turbo-Brown]

Yeah, might be an idea to start off with the sunroof plug instead of a boot lid now you mention it!

Will have to pick your brain about the lost foam techniques as I wanna do something like that to make a filter housing.

Basically wanna get two E46 M3 panel filters housed in a box which can only pick air up from the front and reckon a composite box has gotta be the way to go if I'm to make something which suits the complex shape between the lights and wheel arch.

[march109]

Lost foam is perfect I use two methods.

First is blue craft foam, cut it with an electrically charged wire and shape with files, a plane and various knives and stuff, basically carve out a real nice shape, then cover it in laminate, its actually easier than moulding. You either leave a hole top and bottom (doesn't matter if they are top and bottom because you can tilt the piece on its axis as long as the are opposite sides) and when the laminate is dry pour in petrol.

The result is the foam melts into the petrol and falls out the bottom, its also highly toxic and flammable, Other options are available but petrol is always handy. Most organic sovents will melt the foam.

Second option is to make a female mould for the part you want and pour in either expanding foam or liquid styrofoam and let it dry to shape, then follow the above procedure by covering it in laminate then dissolving with a solvent, takes longer to dissolve though due to the nature of foams. Also once the foam is dissolved you can cover the holes if needs be.

[Turbo-Brown]

Hopefully will only need to do it once so I reckon carving something out of polystyrene should do the trick nicely

Thinking about it, the filter box will need to be made in at least two parts so the pouring in of petrol shouldn't be a problem either

Cheers for your help dude

[Turbo-Brown]

Blimey, stripped all the paint off a sunroof lastnight.

It's amazing how rusty a steel panel can be without it showing through the paint!

Gonna finish de-rusting it all tonight, flat the steel back and then start waxing it.

I'm thinking it'll be easier to install if I make it a kind of top hat section so there's a good pointing platform to seal it in with, whadda we think?

[march109]

Thats how I would do it!

check out this site: http://www.mci.i12.com/carbon/vacuum.htm

Its very good IMO and provides a few pictures and diagrams to lep you along.

[Turbo-Brown]

well, definately a little way from vacuum consolidation!

Just had a go at doing my first laminating

Managed to misplace my book on the subject so I've been doing it from memory

Did the gel coat to a half decent thickness, let that go so you could leave a finger (or glove!) print in it, then mixed up 400ml of resin and hardener.

Painted the resin all over the panel, it's much runnier than I thought it'd be, then put a layer of glass tissue down.

The first thing we learn is that it does need cutting into tight corners or it just bridges.

By this point I'm thinking I might as well do another layer of 300gm csm and then call it a night so on that goes and I start patting it with my gloved hands to get the ridges where the csm was folded out.

This seems to work rather well so I just go on patting it all over to bring the resin through (very professional!)

This stuff seems happy enough to fold around the external corner over the edge of the sunroof panel, but won't do a double back for the top hat.

Next lesson we learn is that if you want a double back, it's gotta be done in more than one piece of mat or it'll bridge.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what it comes off the panel like tomorrow

Guess it's worth doing these things just as an experiment, and very good call Gareth on not starting out on a bloody boot panel as a first attempt!



Behold; the almighty bridging at the edges

[Turbo-Brown]

Ha haaaaaaa!

Well, despite the bridging around the edges, it's actually not that bad! Released like a doddle, although that might just have been because it's so flimsy!

Having learned from the mistakes of attempt one, for take two I'm gonna lose the flange around the edge so the fabric can just hang down, and also cut the fabric so it can contour around the corners.

I'm half tempted to give it a go in CF doing just a single skin, then releasing the skin and laminating another layer on the inside to add some stiffness before finally adding some stiffening ribs.

My understanding is that CF in epoxy is quite alot stiffer than GF in polyester so it'll be less flimsy this time round I reckon

Anyway, feel free to mock

[march109]

Not bad mate, best way to learn is to do and get it wrong!

I've got a couple good books I can lend you if you like. I love playing about with composites and stuff. Probably comes fromwhenI was a kid and built a paper mashe viking long boat.

[Turbo-Brown]

Ooh, what books you got dude?

Just ordered 1sqm of twill carbon, 1.2kg of West System slow epoxy, some wax in styrene (apparently stops the outer layer being sticky so you can sand it back or something like that and some carbon cloth.

Wanna have a go at making some carbon plumbing for the air side just as an experiment if I've got any resin left over after the sunroof, also reckon it'll be useful for doing the stiffeners on the roof.

All very exciting! How sad is that?!

[Chris]

Where do you buy all your resin and matting from? i've not really looked to far but was thinking of good uses the other day

Oh and another vote for the bilt hamber autobalm. Only used it for the first time yesterday but seems like good stuff.

Chris