Is there a guide for the M62 4.4 v8 E30 conversion

[abi]

Searched and searched, but not found a detailed guide to doing this conversion, can anyone help? I know the brake master cly has to be moved. Does a gearbox from a 3L v8 fit on the 4.4? Cheers

[Omi]

E34 Zone?

Seriously, E34 user group will have a lot of knowledge on what fits what... I know a few cars have been converted by folks on here. Recall manifolds were a total ball-ache, but totally worth it for the noise alone!

[suzie650]

the 4.4 manifolds will make life a lot easier than the m60 (earlier version) 4.0 ones.

Engine and gearbox mounts have to be made, or bought if you can find some that you like.

All the V8 BMW boxes fit, but the five speed units have a 1:1 5th, making for no cruising speed. The 6 speed units have a 0.81 sixth.

Custom propshaft required if 6 speed.

Electrics could get tricky with the later CAN versions of the 4.4, although I think that you still had the possibility to get "normal" signals from the ECU if desired (at least on e39). Brake master has to be remote actuated, or for you rhd guys could probably be mounted inboard in the glovebox. To give you an idea of the problem, I've got two inches clearence between my bulkhead and the left head...

HTH...

[Morat]

But what an engine!

[daimlerman]

Just thinking out loud here,would engine wiring issues be best solved with aftermarket type ECU's? Something like mega squirt?

[Morat]

The issue in the past with that approach has been VANOS control, but I think that there has been progress in that direction with the MS project. You'd need to consult an expert of course

[chu346]

I think MS can only control single vanos aren't the M60/2's double vanos?

Stick this in yahoo http://www.e30.de/v8/v8.htm and it will translate it for you.

I'd prefer to do the V12 swap......... one day

[bigdek]

only single vanos

[abi]

the 4.4 manifolds will make life a lot easier than the m60 (earlier version) 4.0 ones.

Engine and gearbox mounts have to be made, or bought if you can find some that you like.

All the V8 BMW boxes fit, but the five speed units have a 1:1 5th, making for no cruising speed. The 6 speed units have a 0.81 sixth.

Custom propshaft required if 6 speed.

Electrics could get tricky with the later CAN versions of the 4.4, although I think that you still had the possibility to get "normal" signals from the ECU if desired (at least on e39). Brake master has to be remote actuated, or for you rhd guys could probably be mounted inboard in the glovebox. To give you an idea of the problem, I've got two inches clearence between my bulkhead and the left head...

HTH...

Very good info, thanks.

So my plan is to use an early 4.4 from a 96-97 7 or 5 series as I know these don't have an electronic throttle or DSC making it simpler to use the original engine management. Coupled onto a 5 speed (not too bothered about top end speed) gearbox from say a 1993 530 v8 or similar.

I'm wondering if a standard 325i diff and drive shafts would be strong enough and if any enlarging of the transmission tunnel would be required.

[suzie650]

no enlarging required, standard diff and driveshaft are supposed to be up to the job.
However, I would recommend a 3.25 BMW E30 M3 diff to get your speed vs rev to a half acceptable standard. (The box on the E30 I6 has an overdriven 0.81:1 5th) and 0.81*3.91 (ratio of a sport/touring diff) = 3.16...
Even better would probably be the 2.93 of an early 325e, but to find these as LSD is very rare.

(to give you an idea, standard wheels and 3.91 diff with the 1:1 5th equals to about 70 mph at 4000rpm. Not ideal with a V8 unless you build a track car.)

[abi]

I see what you mean 4k at 70 mph is no good. Ideally I'd want about 2.5k rpm at 70 mph, any ideal how this might be achieved?

[siddiqi1]

different ratio difff i think!

or a 6 speed manual!

cant wait to see this if you do it! you know if you have any mind or stamina left; VF engineering do a chrger kit; takes from 280bhp to 400 nearabouts; all bolt on toooo

[Jonsku]

I see what you mean 4k at 70 mph is no good. Ideally I'd want about 2.5k rpm at 70 mph, any ideal how this might be achieved?

6 speed box and 2.79 (324td) or 2.93 (eta) LSD should do.

6-speed e39 540 does ~2500rpm @ 140km/h, which is good i think


www.300mm.de and www.e30.de are good sites with lots of info, worth checking

[suzie650]

2.93 AND six speed box gives 73.45mph on standard 15" BBS at 2500rpm
3.25 and six speed gives ~70mph @ 2650rpm

or:
2.79 and six speed box 77.14mph @ 2500rpm
2.79 and 5 speed box 64.02mph @ 2500rpm (~70mph @ 2750)

2.93 and 2.79 even more are really difficult to come by at a reasonable price.

[abi]

Thanks for all your input so far, very helpfull.

So a standard diff would be ok if I could find the six speed box, failing that the diff from a 324td (I didn't know a diesel E30 even existed) would do the job. I don't expect the diesel diff would ever have LSD though? And that would mean wheel spin city...

As for the blower, well that would be mental, but one thing at a time!

I wonder how many old BMW's will have to be destroyed to make this car!?

Anybody know if the steering needs to be altered? - have heard of this but that was a LHD drive motor. Oh and does/can a e36 diff fit on an E30?

[siddiqi1]

your stering rack UJ join near the current m20 manifold is ok; but when that sexy v8 goes in; it may touch it!!!! may need some sort of metal spacer of some sort!!!!

[bigdek]

the offside manifold is a nightmare to get it past the steering

[benjy]

Even better would probably be the 2.93 of an early 325e, but to find these as LSD is very rare.

Mmmmm, seems I have one of them on my touring

[jaistanley]

If you can get hold of an open diff of the correct ratio it's entirely possible to have an LSD pack swapped in remember...

I think the major issues of this conversion aren;t goint to be the diff choice though!

The steering coupling can be re-made into one without a join in it at al, just two E34 U/J's and a section of two E34 splined steering columns shrouded and welded together. That should maximise the clearance.. I started a thread in the tech section but hven't got round to getting any further with it..

[Jonsku]

So a standard diff would be ok if I could find the six speed box, failing that the diff from a 324td (I didn't know a diesel E30 even existed) would do the job. I don't expect the diesel diff would ever have LSD though? And that would mean wheel spin city...

Yes there are 2.79 LSD:s, just missed one auction at www.ebay.de

You can get then from BMW dealer new. Price around 1500€ here in Finland, no idea what the price might be there in UK..

Anybody know if the steering needs to be altered? - have heard of this but that was a LHD drive motor. Oh and does/can a e36 diff fit on an E30?

E36 compact diff (ratios around 4) is quite the same as E30 typ188, normal E36 / M3 diff is a "no no".

E30 big diff = E28 small diff = E34 small diff (all typ 188) (E36 compact diff is typ 168 = e30 small diff).
There are differences in output and driveshaft joints, also the back plate is different but they all are easily changed.

I've E34 525tds 2.64 LSD coming from germany this week, so i'll see next weekend how easy swap it is

[suzie650]

If you can get hold of an open diff of the correct ratio it's entirely possible to have an LSD pack swapped in remember...

I think the major issues of this conversion aren;t goint to be the diff choice though!

The steering coupling can be re-made into one without a join in it at al, just two E34 U/J's and a section of two E34 splined steering columns shrouded and welded together. That should maximise the clearance.. I started a thread in the tech section but hven't got round to getting any further with it..

The problem would be to find a suitable bottom UJ to work with e36/46 racks. They are not the same as e30, and I would therefore not think they'd fit.
You can still make a column without the bush from the orignal column (if you're keeping the e30 rack, see the group buy for solid guibos or make one yourself) or from Ian's guide if you're using a later rack.

[abi]

Well it all seems quite possible, just lots of jigging around and probably beating things with a hammer!

Does the 325 have bigger brakes than a 320? And are the sport brakes better again? Looking for a shell now and not sure if I should rule out 320's.

[suzie650]

The touring has got the same chassis as the 325 (suspension, brakes, but bigger ARB)
No difference between a "sport" and a standard 325 as far as I'm aware. Keep in mind that You'll probably want to change everything anyway.
No beating needed! A cutout in the battery tray if you put the engine far back enough, and that's all.
Unless you want to keep A/C, and then you either find a tiny compressor (I've failed so far) or you chop your chassis leg.

[jaistanley]

The problem would be to find a suitable bottom UJ to work with e36/46 racks. They are not the same as e30, and I would therefore not think they'd fit.

I beg to differ (after inspection).

The E30 steering column slines are more course but the steering rack splines appear the same.....

I can double check tomoz....

[oze30]

Issues on a RHD conversion:
Brakes-
I've mounted mine under the glovebox (twin MC setup, no servo) as there was absolutely no way of getting a servo to fit and even remotely working ( could have done if I had a weeks solid tinkering time) Result, less than perfect brakes (Same sized MC and e30 M3 brakes) I'd definately uprate the brakes. I'm having fun trying to stop the beast with fast road pads, slotted discs after a few blats through the round abouts in MK. Not confidence inspiring if you ask me.. just need to adjust the braking style.

Cooling-
Ive blown 2 e28 M535 rads. Just about to install a custom rad from a local guy, 130 quid. Uses a rover core I think. But it's a triple core with more surface area than the stock e28, plus better cooling.

Exhaust-
Going to get a custom manifold or try the e39 manifold as I'm down roughly 100lb/ft torque due to a huge cut out on the 2/4 collectors. Enjoy these!! They have an awsome sound!!






Fuel-
Have fun!! Unless you have shares in OPEC, then Id hugely suggest an LPG conversion. With a 3.91 you get roughly 180 from full to just before the reserve light comes on. I get a definate 170 to the 1/4 tank line. With a 3.15 (2.0 Z3 LSD) I get closer to 210-220 to the 1/4 tank mark. (Was actually more fuel efficient when hard accel to cruise speed then burble along.

Clutch-
use an e34 m/c if it's bigger than the e30. It's a heavy clutch, but you can get used to it over time

Tacho-
Im about to try a 4cyl coding plug to see if it reads better.

Fitment.
There's enough room between the left head and the left strut housing for about .5-1 inch. No, you can't mount an M/C/Servo here. You can mount it on the firewall, but I'd rather not cut and shut the strut bracing.
I have to cave in the left side chassis rail to fit the alternator in. Without it, it would rub/vibrate against the chassis rail.
If you don't lower the subframe, you won't be able to use the plastic covering over the top of the engine (Acoustic cover and sound mat -bmw parts) It will squash down and you'll break the clips that hold it together. You also won't be able to use the triangular e34 header tank (no room. ESPECIALLY if you want to run a strut brace. Forget using the triangle header tank!!)

You can use the late 325 header on the wing, but you might have some issues with it self bleeding. Alternative is to mount it up on the battery tray. This will mean the header tank is definately the highest point.


Airbox.
You can use the standard flat panel airbox with some modifications, but you're better off using a cone filter for more room/airflow.


Hope this helps. It's pretty much where I'm up to in regards to getting it pretty.


Having said all this, if my motor is a Nikasil one, I'm waiting for it to destruct and an M62 will go in!

[oze30]

Forgot to mention.. anyone who says you can't drift an open diff hasn't driven mine!! !

[Andyboy]

only single vanos

Engines up to late 1998 are non Vanos, later ones are Vanos.

[PiLLLe]

Does anyone have wiring plans for m62 conversion i think i have m62tu and i cant find anything which could help me.

[oze30]

M62TU, doe sit have a throttle cable or is it fly by wire. If fly by wire, it's possible, but a lot of grief. The first generation of M62 from memory are cable throttle. I have a loom here from an E38 M62b44, with inlet manifold. You could use this as long as you plug the LPG injector holes. Or just run 16 injectors!

[oze30]

If you can get hold of an open diff of the correct ratio it's entirely possible to have an LSD pack swapped in remember...

I think the major issues of this conversion aren;t goint to be the diff choice though!

The steering coupling can be re-made into one without a join in it at al, just two E34 U/J's and a section of two E34 splined steering columns shrouded and welded together. That should maximise the clearance.. I started a thread in the tech section but hven't got round to getting any further with it..

The problem would be to find a suitable bottom UJ to work with e36/46 racks. They are not the same as e30, and I would therefore not think they'd fit.
You can still make a column without the bush from the orignal column (if you're keeping the e30 rack, see the group buy for solid guibos or make one yourself) or from Ian's guide if you're using a later rack.

You can fit the Z3 rack with the V8 (I did this, but I didn't clearance the down pipe enough, so it locked the steering turning left when the engine moved across.

This is due to the sharper angle out of the rack than the E30. You could find a way of tilting the rack back, so that it clears. Or just get the rack installed first and then do the manifolds after.

Depending on how you do the manifolds, you could use the rubber guibo, I did, but they don't necessarily need it.

[Jonsku]

Does anyone have wiring plans for m62 conversion i think i have m62tu and i cant find anything which could help me.

I'm not sure but i think people are using M60 wiring looms with M62. No idea which things you need to change (at least knocking sensors) but try checking www.e30tech.com and www.bimmerforums.com through, few project topics of BMW V8 conversions there also

[PiLLLe]

Problem is that these things are hard to get around here, so i must use what i allready have. At first i planed to use whole e39 wiring, but for that to wotk i need abs which i dont have (abs needs whole lot of work to work properly as you might have seen in that s54 smg conversion done by that american guy)
But fortunetly my engine has throttle cable and it isn't flybywire so that's one problem less.

[oze30]

Are you trying to use the traction control? Why do you need to wire up the abs?

[PiLLLe]

I was thinking of that but abs gives out speed signal, wich goes to tacho and from tacho it goes to ECU. If you dont have that engine goes to safe mode.

[oze30]

Aftermarket traction control might be a better (read-easier) option to go for. I have the loom from an M62 cable throttle you could use? It's had the LPG stuff cut off it, but should all be there.