S54 in an E30??

[Diesel]

Hi all

i've got an 89 e30 325i sport and was wondering if anyone has done a s54 (e46 m3 lump) conversion in an e30, because i can get hold of one, any info welcom.

Also what is the e36 m3 evo lump converion to do?? i've seen there are a number of member who have done this.

Has anyone created a guide or info page?

Cheers

Sav

[billgatese30]

not sure about the e46 lump mate, however i do know that the e36 non-evo lump is better as it doesn't have vanos and is therefor easier to setup and intergrate in the e30.

i think that the early ones also didn't need a coded key or something daft like that making it much more practical, but i'm not sure on that last detail about the key so i'll let someone else confirm that but good luck with whichever project that you decide to go with.

also, welcome to the site.

[jmc330i]

The E36 3.0ltr M3 (non Evo) does have single Vanos. The M3 Evo has double Vanos that can sometimes cause problems and is very expensive to fix.

Any M3 after Jan 1995 will have EWSii. Thats the coded key security thing. Most 3.0ltr M3s wont have it but some do, like mine. All the Evos will.

Theres was talk of someone fitting the E46 M3 lump into an E30, but Im not sure if its been done or is still being done.
From what I remember reading, a lot of the E46 engine wiring is integrated into the the rest of the car wiring (or something along those lines), so its not an easy conversion.
Would be one hell of a conversion though.

[Brianmoooore]

I'm in the VERY early stages of a M54 conversion.
All I've done so far, is removed the engine from the bit of the wreck that I bought, carefully removed the wiring loom and worked out what all the sensors are for, and compared it with an M50 engine, to see if it will physically go in the E30.( I've already done a M50 tu conversion).
When rounding up your bits, it is essential you get the EWS III module (lives in passenger footwell on a 5 series) to go with the ECU.
You will also need the ignition key, the antenna coil that goes around it and a matching instrunent cluster.The instrument cluster does not need to be installed in the car, but you will need to provide a socket for it, and be able to plug it in if the car needs to be connected to the BMW computer.( Thanks to Ian332isport for this info).

[GermanGorilla]

The difference between the 52 [M3 Evo E36] and the 54 [M3 E46] is the head / cams/ Induction, etc.

The engines use the same block/ bottom end, etc.

The Engine Wiring Loom is similar but has differences.

In that the E46 gives 320- 340 BHP and the E36 315-320 BHP, in standard form, unless the E46 comes real cheap, I'm not sure what the gains are?

The 54 Engined M3 CSL at 360 BHP, has had it fair share of reliability issues, and the view is that at over 350 / 360 BHP, these engines for everyday use, are near their max, in terms of reliability.

BMW are even renewing M3 E46 engines which are out of warranty, should tell you something !!

Still just my two cents worth.

Gorilla.

[glenn]

From what I remember reading, a lot of the E46 engine wiring is integrated into the the rest of the car wiring (or something along those lines), so its not an easy conversion.
Would be one hell of a conversion though.

this was the case in my conversion,
i was given the whole loom for the e39 m5,
as i didn't take the loom out of the car i was left to try and identify what each of the plugs and sockets were for.
the car i had the kit out of had had a rear end shunt and a fair sized chunk of the loom was cut of when i got it.

ian(332isport) managed to get hold of a wds disc that we shared but as it originated from the states, some of the wiring codes were slightly different.

i did manage to strip the loom down enough to get it in the e30.
took me 4 weeks of studying the disc and doing one wire at a time.
it went from this



and i had got rid of this

[M3Compact]

Great thread, E39 M5 in to E30.

My understanding of the E46 transplant is that the ABS has to be linked, which put us off. (E36 Compact.)

The E36 3.0ltr M3 (non Evo) does have single Vanos. The M3 Evo has double Vanos that can sometimes cause problems and is very expensive to fix.

I bought a 3.0L E36 engine to transplant and stripped it. I've eventually used a 3.2, internally it is superior. (Also, the 3.0L oil pick up arrangement is apparently susceptible to 'oil surge', very different set up in the 3.2.)

Vanos wise, I'm not too worried, because I'll ditch it if it fcuks up. The 3.0L vanos does break too tho', my 3.0L was vanosless due to Vanos failure, very expensive to mend.

The 54 Engined M3 CSL at 360 BHP, has had it fair share of reliability issues, and the view is that at over 350 / 360 BHP, these engines for everyday use, are near their max, in terms of reliability.

This Normally aspitared 3.2 should give close to 400 BHP. The standard pistons/head are good enough, using too many revs causes most of the failings that We've heard about.

Apparently there seems to be a big end bolt/shell spinning connection, (stretch? ) but even engines with uprated bolts can still spin shells. Annoyingly/expensively the cranks are prone to twisting, when they do spin a shell. A steel crank is Ԛ£3.5K

You will also need the ignition key, the antenna coil that goes around it and a matching instrunent cluster.The instrument cluster does not need to be installed in the car, but you will need to provide a socket for it, and be able to plug it in if the car needs to be connected to the BMW computer.( Thanks to Ian332isport for this info).

Is the corresponding key deffo necessary? Or just something that is accepted by the EWS? (ie correct key with loop transmitter/decoder)

Ian????

[GermanGorilla]

I had been trying to find out if my take on converting the sump/oil pick up for fitting an 3.2 Evo engine into the e30 would have problems.

I agree with your remarks regarding the ''Oil Surge'' issues when using the 3.0ltr pump with M50 oil pick up.

In fitting the 3.2 Evo engine into the E30, I have used a M50 Sump which I have modified to now include a Oil Baffle but have retained the Evo Oil pump and pick ups.

The sump was modified so that the Oil Pick up below the pump has become the primary, and the second oil pick up which usually draws from the rear of the Evo sump was altered so as to try and scavange oil from the sump reservoir on the M50 Sump.

As all who have gone before, seem to have gone the 3.0 ltr pump and M50 pick up, I' m starting to wonder ?

Regards,

Gorilla.

[Brianmoooore]

New key can be supplied and coded by BMW by hooking the system to their computer.
As i understand it, the EWS trasmits to the key, and if it gets the right reply, it sends an unlock code to the DME.

[glenn]

My understanding of the E46 transplant is that the ABS has to be linked, which put us off. (E36 Compact.)

i dont think it's nessasary(sp?) to keep the abs, it is in the loom but i've done away with mine, the abs and wheel speed sensors are all linked to the ecu, for traction control, i ditched the lot, hey, who wants nannying!!!

Vanos wise, I'm not too worried, because I'll ditch it if it fcuks up. The 3.0L vanos does break too tho', my 3.0L was vanosless due to Vanos failure, very expensive to mend.

i spoke to a motorsport company who had been commisioned to put an e39 m5 into an e46, but couldn't get it to run properly they then sent the car to germany three times each time it came back worse than it went,
i dont think they had enough of the
original loom to start with, in the end they did away with the 4 vanos units and locked them in the best position that suited them

Is the corresponding key deffo necessary? Or just something that is accepted by the EWS? (ie correct key with loop transmitter/decoder)

the key has to be the matching key for the ecu, the loop antena can come from any car

Great thread, E39 M5 in to E30.

thanks

[glenn]

New key can be supplied and coded by BMW by hooking the system to their computer.
As i understand it, the EWS trasmits to the key, and if it gets the right reply, it sends an unlock code to the DME.

you will need original chassis nunber.
also they wont sell ecu, key and ews as one kit,
they suppose you need them to steal another bmw

[M3Compact]

i spoke to a motorsport company who had been commisioned to put an e39 m5 into an e46, but couldn't get it to run properly they then sent the car to germany three times each time it came back worse than it went,
i dont think they had enough of the
original loom to start with, in the end they did away with the 4 vanos units and locked them in the best position that suited them

Interesting.

I know nothing about E39 M5s Glenn. The S50 3.2 runs better with the Vanos removed, rather than just disabled for 'management inadequacies'. How did they lock it??

Apparently, with the 3.2 the way to do it is with 2 X S50 3.0L exhaust cam sprockets, pinned at 110 degrees, 110 surprised me.

the abs and wheel speed sensors are all linked to the ecu, for traction control, i ditched the lot, hey, who wants nannying!!!

Is there a possibility with the E46 M3, that the 'variable diff' might be linked? (I'd like to know how the variable diff works.)

As all who have gone before, seem to have gone the 3.0 ltr pump and M50 pick up, I' m starting to wonder ?

I've been told of 3.0L race cars using 3.2 oiling.

In fitting the 3.2 Evo engine into the E30, I have used a M50 Sump which I have modified to now include a Oil Baffle but have retained the Evo Oil pump and pick ups.

Nice one. I wanted an S14 but I bottled it because of oil pick up worries with a DIY sump, and impracticalities of dry sumping.

[glenn]

Interesting.

I know nothing about E39 M5s Glenn. The S50 3.2 runs better with the Vanos removed, rather than just disabled for 'management inadequacies'. How did they lock it??

he didn't go into detail with me,
but he said he made a plate of some sort to lock the cams, that fitted inside the cam housing.
cant remember the guys name,
but i got hold of him through
moseley motorsport, telford
i think m.m owner is a guy called nigel?
very helpful

[M3Compact]

but i got hold of him through
moseley motorsport, telford
i think m.m owner is a guy called nigel?
very helpful

Nigel Moseley is a sound guy.

cant remember the guys name,

Russ Coburn?

[glenn]

Quote:
cant remember the guys name,

Russ Coburn?

sorry simon, i cant remember.

[M3Compact]

Quote:
cant remember the guys name,

Russ Coburn?

sorry simon, i cant remember.

It's likely to have been Russ, if Nigel recommended him. (Near Darlington.)

He builds Moseley's engines/gearboxes/diffs. Mega clued up BMW guy.