Megasquirt for the m20b25

[Trise30rally]

I am thinking the next step for my cammed m20 is megasquirt, now my question is,

Is it worth setting up individual throttle bodies at the same time, and how much more complicated will it make the conversion??

What sort of power am i looking at on an m20 with a 273 273 cam and throttle bodies?

[e30_Turbo]

MS gave Mattg 12% more power & 18% more torque using a std manifold etc

With TB's & a cam you could expect more!

Best bet is to chat with Ant as IIRC Oakey has ITB's on his MS'd M20

[oakey]

MS gave Mattg 12% more power & 18% more torque using a std manifold etc

With TB's & a cam you could expect more!

Best bet is to chat with Ant as IIRC Oakey has ITB's on his MS'd M20

Not yet. lol. No real need to do it all at the same time. No benefits apart from having to map it twice.
After MS was fitted to my 2.7 I noticed a pretty huge difference in power. I wouldnt be surprised if I gained similar power stated above. I'm sure alot comes down to who's mapping it though.

To answer the itb question- ask again in two weeks

[Trise30rally]

Cool, thanks mate, how much am i likely to pay for a kit to build myself? i quite fancy having a go at it and understanding it all better...

It is quite an exciting prospect building your own ecu!

[Ant]

Go for the DIY kit and you really will understand what makes it all tick, its time consuming and fiddly, but very rewarding.

A fully built kit is more £Â£ but would have a warranty from a reputable supplier( not M-Tech/MD-Tech on ebay !! )

It will make more power with MS, but only if mapped correctly !

[siddiqi1]

Ive tried reading up on all this standalone managment; and how you guys understand it is mind boggling !

i assumew you would get this to control your spark fuel and boost; but whats with all these controllers and wibeband O2 sensors; what the hell is all that!

Having once seen a standalone system, which was DTA, it cam with a whole bloomen loom specifically made for that car; how does this ECU tap into the E30 loom, or do you have tosolder that in too?

Why is it so many use megasquirt and not the likes of emeral and say DTA; im jsut curious guys, becasue i really want it too; but am just shite scared at the sight of all that PCB'ing; and im quite into my electronics, that flew over me!

[hoshy]

Megasquirt is popular as it's cheap and you can go almost completely 100% DIY which appeals to a lot of enthusiasts. How you wire it in is up to you.

Personally I used an old ECU plug to keep things easy to swap back. Others have done direct solder-in. Other have used connectors to allow MS to control either fuel only, spark only, both or neither.

Basically you get a lot of control but with that control comes a steeper learning curve - as ant says it's very rewarding though.

Wide-band refers to one of two types of oxygen sensors that sit in the exhaust. The idea is that by measuring the amount of oxygen in the exhaust gases one can determine how complete the fuel burnt (basically how lean or rich). The wide-band versions are accurate over a range of Air/Fuel ratios where as narrow-band ones are only accurate at exactly 14.7:1 air:fuel ratio - narrow band sensors came first to ensure that at cruise conditions the fueling was correct for economy and to protect the catalytic converter, which can be damaged from lean fuel mixtures (I think because of the extra heat). Later on we got wide-band sensors which can be used to tune the car they can help you do this because the can accurately tell you if you're hitting the air/fuel ratio you want -- sometimes you want richer than 14.7:1 because at around about 13:1 AFR (air/fuel ratio) you get better power under load (hard acceleration for example) remember that the narrow-band can only tell us if we're at 14.7:1, richer or weaker - it can't tell us exactly how rich or weak we are.

Mostly wide-band sensors are used to stick up the exhaust pipe for dyno power test, tuning or added to cars on a more permanent basis to allow the owner to more easily tune on the road or just to provide a fancier AFR readout. Some manufacturers have started using wide-band sensors as standard but I'm not sure who or exactly why.

You've not really any reason to be scared of building megasquirt if you're patient and have done at least some soldering before - however, it's not a project to be taken lightly! You could always buy one ready built for a little more money and then install yourself.

Flappysocks on the Zone has done a nice wiki page on how to set-up MS on the 325 and a few others (myself included) have done other engines.

[siddiqi1]

Hoshy,

thanks for all the info mate; makes it a lot clearer!

I completely understand the use of the O2 sensor; ive seen the tuning software, whch btw i think is so amazing; the things you can do to a car via a laptop! The wideband o2 sensors are also used for those fancy A.F ratio guages, but mainly for tuning.

Its something i will take on; once i invest in a soldering iron, wahaha, but when i have some serious time to understand it; i dont like putting things in my car that i have no idea of what they do; and how they do it; and i thinkthats why so many use megasquirt; its a chance to see how the car is actually controlled!

It shocks me though how you guys take it so light heartedly, i saw the website and thoguth; forget this! The hardest bit for me i think would be tapping into the OEM LOOM, that is a scary prospect!

thanks though for the help

Saboor

[Ant]

Hi Flappys Wiki , there's a template there for tapping the stock JPT55 connector( ecu plug)

MS rules, , DTA/MBE/Emerald/KMS/ etc are all superb bits of kit, but more costly and more "blinkered" in their approach. Some of the software is shockingly OTT its untrue to.

MS is not the best ECU in the world, but neither are any of the others when comp[ared to the new gen OEM stuff from '06 onwards, but its a great go faster mod, and opens the door to more mods / another car/engine combo whatever you fancy.

TBH I prefer a new loom, cuts out all the known weakpoints in the OE loom( ie being 18 years old @ best ) but that has to be costed for, and not always

Saboor, buy a kit and have a go maybe ????? you will get addicted to MS too

[d6dph]

Ant what is the ballpark figure for an experienced person such as yourself to supply and install Megasquirt.

I'm really tempted as I like the idea of optimising the M20s performance but am unsure if it would be better to throw an M50 in it?

[Jhonno]

M50 M50 M50 M50 M50...

Did i mention..? M50

[jaistanley]

People have the MSquirts running the simpler VANOS now, no sweat. Some even have them running the more complex ones with a PWM output from a 'boost' controller map (though I have no idea how). I need to get to grips with megasquirt and would really love to build one for my 325i once I have the S50 as a daily driver...

I doubt I'll ever get it to run my S50B32 though....

[siddiqi1]

thanks Ant for the input. Can you go as far as to say that its blank drawing canvas really; the only limit is the money you have to inject in the marvelous software and hardware!

i want to buy it now.....arggghhhh these exams are holding me back evermore!

[FlappySocks]

Keep an eye on my Wiki. I am in the process of building my latest incarnation of the Motronic/MS box. I'm documenting it as i go, starting from gutting the Motronic box, to fitting it to a pre-facelift Motorsport. Got a stack of photos already, and I'll start putting them up this coming week.

This is what I did today.




The socket on the back, is a fused output to the coil pack. It also has an output for shift lights, and various other things. Everything else connects via the stock wiring loom.

[siddiqi1]

ah what a write up this will be!!

keep the pics coming; that looks right interesting!!!!

[FlappySocks]

I'm also helping design the FreeEMS project. There wont be anything you can usefully use for quite some time, but it's going to be an alternative to MS.

[hoshy]

Ohh interesting! Is it using a cpu etc from opencores - that would be the ultimate

[daimlerman]

Hoshy had me captivated on zone roam,at almost every stop he wanted to know what colour smoke the exhaust was making,then getting the laptop out to make some more ajustments...just to enable his 318is to keep up with the 'proper' cars,of course...

[hoshy]

yes yes malcolm

You didn't do a bad job of keeping up yourself

[Trise30rally]

Ant, do you supply the kits?

Can you supply me with a map for my engine like you did with the chip?

[Ant]

I can supply a full kit inc all required sensors and a basemap to suit

Email for details, there's no direct selling on the Forums

[FlappySocks]

ah what a write up this will be!!

keep the pics coming; that looks right interesting!!!!

Thanks. I updated the first 2 parts of my DIY guide this evening.
http://wiki.diyefi.co.uk/Converting_a_M ... Megasquirt

More over the next few days.

Feel free to fix my typos, poor spelling and grammar

[goosiegander]

bloody good reading chaps i'm really tempted by megasquirt as i want throttle bodies on my 2.8 further down the line

[fowler]

goosiegander

bloody good reading chaps i'm really tempted by megasquirt as i want throttle bodies on my 2.8 further down the line

why wait fella do it !!! Squirt is they way foreward

[siddiqi1]

that is a very good start; and from little i know about electrics; you make it look easy! Im honestly looking at my old ecu and going......naaaaaaaah cant be that easy; but i really think it is once you concentrate!

I cant wait till this is finished and then Im going to attempt it. Where are you getting, well your instructions from? great pics by the way!

[Trise30rally]

I can supply a full kit inc all required sensors and a basemap to suit

Email for details, there's no direct selling on the Forums

I did send you an e-mail Ant, last week but it said you where at the ring..........

[FlappySocks]

that is a very good start; and from little i know about electrics; you make it look easy! Im honestly looking at my old ecu and going......naaaaaaaah cant be that easy; but i really think it is once you concentrate!

You dont have to be an electronics expert, but you will need basic soldering skills, You can get the megasquirt board pre-built & tested. All you have to do it solder the wires on the connectors as instructed.

There is a learning curve tho... especially when it comes to setting all the software parameters, but thats part of the fun of it. There is always something to tweak.

The best thing of all, is MS is very popular with E30 owners, so there is no shortage of help should you get stuck.

[siddiqi1]

tbh i would find it more exciting to build it than tune it i think. tuning is something id leave ot the master of like ANT; but the sheer excitement of You telling the car how to start; how to fuel and what todo is amazing becasue the results will be smack in fromt ofyour face!

the scary thing is; i think youll admit is when you see white smoke..........i dont like white buring smell; means somethings not right somewhere; but thats the fun of building something yoursef; the satisfaction is superb!

where do you purchase your parts to say from?

[FlappySocks]

So long as you fuse everything, I doubt anything will burn!
I have a trade account with various MS suppliers, as i like to play with this stuff in my spare time. Some of the kit I developed myself to make the job a lot easier. I am very much in favor of converting the Motronic boxes. I'm going to be looking at the wideband stuff soon. I have some of these on their way to me http://www.14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm

[siddiqi1]

the wideband looks promising!!!! cant wait for the finished product and its not even mine! now that im getting the hang of it; its something im going to endulge defo; once the funds are there!!!!!