Engine Swap M20B20 2 HartgeH27 !PROBLEM SOLVED & ALL FIX

[SilverShadow]

Hi all,

I hope I can get as much feedback on this topic to help me to decide/carry out this engine swap.

OK this is how it goes, around two years ago I was pretty lucky in purchasing a genuine Hartge H27 engine with original ECU, Wiring loom, Cam Cover, Six Branch and paper work from an old school zoner located in Bristol

I didn't have time or money to carry out the engine swap at the time of the purchase as I was in the middle of fully renovating my house and getting married , but during this period I did manage to tart up the engine (paint, polish) and rebuild a few things (e.g. gasket, injectors etc) see pics.







Any way I think the time has come to put this beauty in my convertible now, before the H27 goes in, after taking out the old B20M20 I want to get the engine bay repainted again in the same colour and replace the engine bay stickers.

My dilemma is that I can't find a reliable mechanic locally to do the work within a good price. My budget is around £200- £300 max to get all this done and I know this is not realistic but this is what I can afford - And even if I do find a mechanic to do the work within my budget I'm concerned that they will end up scratching the engine and the bay when putting the engine in and doing a proper c0ck up.

I know this is not the same thing but I have helped my uncle carry out some engine swaps on a Ford/Vauxhall and a Rover but never a BMW let alone a E30, I have never carried out an engine swap by myself but I am dab handy in fixing/servicing most problems with my e30's (with the help of the zone of course) and do have a general idea in the process when I helped my uncle.

I need to know how hard this job would be and whether I should attempt to do this? Please could please rate this job out of 5 where 1 being very easy and 5 being very hard. Also can you provide me with detailed tips in what I should look out for if I do attempted to do this or even better a step by step guide

There will be a few things that I will have to a get professional mechanic to do after which would be setting the tappets and changing the timing belt and tensioner.

Your feed back would be much appreciated !!

Oh by the way if I do go ahead with this job I will have to do it in my front drive (counsel style) and would need to hire a crane.

[abelai]

I would set the tappets and change the belt with the engine out as it will be really easy. These jobs I would rate at about 2 as now special tools are required. I would also recommend you change the water pump thermostat and the inlet manifold gasket all while the engine is out.

As for fitting the engine it is also easy but you will need an engine crane. None of these jobs are complicated they just require attention to detail.

[daimlerman]

Do not hire a crane,go on fleabay and buy a secondhand one.Look to spend around £75.When the job is done,sell it on for similar money....I managed to remove,rebuild and refit my M20 on my own.There is nothing particularly diffficult in getting the engine/'box out as a unit,try to lift the rear of the car to make the angle a little easier. Do fit your new cambelt before fitting the engine,it is straightforward with the engine in but so much easier with it on the deck!You can fit/remove with the manifolds on,but you obtain more room around the engine with them off.

[abelai]

I recommended the inlet manifold gasket because they are a common failure point and the oil return pipe to the crankcase is a PITA when your reaching over the wing and trying to slide the manifold on.

[SilverShadow]

I would also recommend you change the water pump thermostat and the inlet manifold gasket all while the engine is out.
l.

Water pump, thermostat as been changed along with the manifold gaskets and flywheel lightend and balanced

''Do not hire a crane,go on fleabay and buy a secondhand one.Look to spend around £75''

That sounds like a plan.

I will be leaving the gearbox and LSD as they came of a sport, how easy is it to undo the gearbox to the engine? 8 star shaped bolts i think?

Any other tips ???

[Speedtouch]

Don't drop it on your foot

[daimlerman]

Do not forget to unbolt the clutch slave cylinder from the bellhousing... gear box slides on and of,just need to be very careful to get the clutch properly lined up.I used a long bolt with gaffer tape wrapped around it to centre the plate to the fly/cover.

[SilverShadow]

Guys thanks for all your replies but non of you have rated the job as whole??

Please could you rate 1 to 5 so I can get a better understanding?

[jaffro]

id say 2 out of 5

[gooner1]

SilverShadow, if you do get the engine hoist i would recommend that you also get a load leveller for installing the engine.Good luck.

[daimlerman]

Just to be different from jaffro I would say two and a half... joking aside,there is nothing that a resonably competent DiYer cannot tackle here,it just sounds difficult.Take a deep breath and get stuck in!!

[Ziggy]

I wouldn't rate it as 'difficult', just fairly time consuming. An engine swap is however more difficult than tappets & cambelt so if you're not willing to take them on, I'd think twice!

Bolting an engine to a gearbox under the car is a PITA - I'd pull the lot out, bolt it to the new engine & then drop it all back in...

[SilverShadow]

I wouldn't rate it as 'difficult', just fairly time consuming. An engine swap is however more difficult than tappets & cambelt so if you're not willing to take them on, I'd think twice!...

I guess the only reason why i havnt done the above is because:

Tappets: i've always tought leave it to the professionals so that they can set it up proper and the car would run nicer?

Cambelt: I have always been scared about because i don't want to mess up the timing and end up busting the head?

but i think if somebody showed me how to do these jobs i would pick it up?

[jaffro]

I guess the only reason why i havnt done the above is because:

Tappets: i've always tought leave it to the professionals so that they can set it up proper and the car would run nicer?

Cambelt: I have always been scared about because i don't want to mess up the timing and end up busting the head?

but i think if somebody showed me how to do these jobs i would pick it up?[/quote]
i was the same as you i got temple8e30 to do mine and then i put the engine in myself. at least by iain doing it i new it would be right so there was less for me to get wrong so i dont blame you at all. but as for putting engine and box in i did it alone and was simple enough just take your time thats the key

[SilverShadow]

but as for putting engine and box in i did it alone and was simple enough just take your time thats the key

That sounds very promising! was it your first time???

Has there been a write up or a set by step giude for this???

[jaffro]

it was the first time on my own its pretty easy really as long as ya dont rush it and lower it in very slowly checking clearance as you do. i got my 3.5 in and bolted up in about 40 mins

[Alburglar]

You are a lucky man. Apart from the mystery as to wether it's got the forged crank or not (best set rev limit to 6200 to be safe), this is a 210bhp monster according to the bible. But I'm sure you're already aware of that.

[spook]

Sell the engine to me and use the money to go on holiday

[hartgefan]

get yourself a workshop manual and just remember its nuts and bolts,its not difficult but it can be time consuming if your a virgin,id say its a 3 but as someone else said if your not happy to set your valve clearances dont even think about it,good luck mate

[SilverShadow]

I'm going to be taking a week off work when the weather picks up to attempt this job (also need the break). I have been thinking even if I can't manage to get the new engine in I will just ask my local garage to finish of the job (or a zoner who's will to make a quick buck?) at least I would have saved on the labour in taking the engine out and having the bay painted as having it prepped will cost the most.

I want to take my time in doing it, I know if I start to rush it I will end up c0cking it up!

Again does anyone have a detailed step by step guide/tips for this kind of job or whether there was a write up here on the zone that I need to search for?

[Alburglar]

Haynes manual mate - it will tell all!

[daimlerman]

Come on,this is not rocket science,all you need to do is unbolt everything thet is attached to the engine and'box,remove the radiator to gain clearance,attach a crane ane pull the bloody thing out...take your time,this is why I suggested buying a s/h crane,if it takes all day who cares?Both Haynes and Bentley have published a blow by blow account.

[Alburglar]

Yeah but it is daunting the first time you take an engine out. But there really is nothing to worry about. Just like everyone says, follow the step by step manual and take your time. Don't hire the crane till you're ready to lift the engine (just in case it takes you longer than expected). If you hit any problems ask the people on here. I haven't done a beamer lump yet, but have done plenty of minis including a motor bike engine in my track car and a 160bhp vvc engine into a metro, and I started from the exact same position you're in now.
I remember my first engine swap and afterwards I rember thinking to myself, 'I don't know why I put that off for so long?' and you get a great big sense of achievement too.

Lets face it, you aren't a real man til you've:

-Smoked a pipe
-Drunk 8 pints plus
-Swapped an engine
-Got your brown wings

Not neccessarily in that order!

[Jesus325iTouring]

I would rate the job as 2/5 Not hugely difficult,but quite time consuming,more so for a smoker and coffee addict,health freaks can knock a good 3 hours off the job simply by not requiring breaks every five minutes.

See here for inspiration.........

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... gives+life

[SilverShadow]

Alburglar, thansk for the support!

Jesus that is a very interesting link you posted!

Anyway i rang a few more mechanics to day but all quouted silly money - so it will be my self who tries to do this job!

any way i will keep you guys posted with pics etc etc!

[SilverShadow]

Hi all,

This Saturday suffering from a stinking hangover me and my managed to pull the old b20!

It wasn't hard at all, i started the work around 4pm and had the engine out by 7pm.

The two top bolts of the gearbox was a bit of a b4sterd in removing but after getting a better leverage i cracked them open.

This week i will spending time in swapping a few bits over e.g. power steering pump, clutch etc

Will get some pics up tonight of the engine bay which will get painted before the 27 goes in

[daimlerman]

Did you take the 'box out with the engine?

[SilverShadow]

Did you take the 'box out with the engine?

No i left the box in the car!

[daimlerman]

Gulp,never done it that way myself,always reckon it is easier to re-fit the 'box with the whole lot on the garage floor..take great care to get the clutch plate properly centred...how are you getting on with the engine bay?

[SilverShadow]

Is there a trick on aligning the clutch plate???

Engine bay is looking a bit nasty as i havnt done anything to it yet, the old b20 had a bad oil leak from somwhere so i will be getting the old degreaser out this weekend.

i will get some before and after pics up.

[daimlerman]

You need to make sure that the clutch plate is exactly centred,so that the gearbox first motion shaft(that's the bit that sticks out in the bellhousing..)will slide in perfectly.I used a long bolt that was a snug fit in the sigot bearing on the flywheel.I then wrapped gaffer tape around the bolt so that it was a snug fit in the centre of the clutch plate. offerup the clutch cover and plate and bolt loosley to the flywheel.Insert your tool and bolt up securely,the tool should be a sliding,square,fit.Do take time to get it right,as you will have to lift the engine out to correct any snags....

[SilverShadow]

Lol!

I got a question regarding the fly wheel, when putting it back on do i need to torque them using a torque wrench or can a get away with it by tightening as normal?? i got some extra leaverage by sliding a pole pole over the rachet?

[daimlerman]

Flywheel.Bentley says new bolts and locktite.Torque up to 77ft.lb.

[SilverShadow]

new bolts?????? is that necessary?

would i need to get the torque exact?

[daimlerman]

new bolts?????? is that necessary?

would i need to get the torque exact?

Just think of the damage that could happen if your flywheel bolts failed at 6000rpm...bit close to my legs...new bolts are available via zimmer for a pound or so each... torque is given as plus/minus 5ft.lb.