200 mph E30 Touring

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78dude
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:46 pm

Today a lot of modern cars can reach 200mph if you tune them quite much like the Cosworths and Audi RS etc. So my plan is to start slowely on a 200mph E30 or to see how fast you can manage to do with a design from the early 80s.
The reason for this is that the E32 goes now for sale and I have made an advert on it on the local website here in Sweden, so its time for 78dude to do a come back on the E30s again.

Because this will be an odd project I need an odd E30 like a RHD 316i Touring, and the reason for this is easy: The 316 Tourings have always had older owners who take better care of them so they arent rotten, and the other thing is that you can get them deadly cheap!
Most of the Tourings here in Sweden have had a to hard life in snow and winter conditions, so I dont want to start with a project where I need to sort out rust first.

The M40 will offcourse get out in a replace of something else, it will to be honest just be a Touring shell left for it and yes, I forgot to tell why Im using an Touring. The Touring have a better drag for hi speed than the saloon cars, something you maybe dont understand in speeds around 100-150mph but I need to give it an extra 50mph who will then mean that I need all the aerodynamic I can get!

Because of drag and aerodynamic I will need to drop it as much as 60mm and I will need the brakes from an E28 M535i (replace the 4 stud to 5 stud so I can get much better brakes)
Maybe also invest to some Racing Cup Suspension as well, but that is all about what I learn by doing. The plan is in the end to use a drive train from a BMW 540i E34 (or 840) with a 6 speed manual gearbox and then fit a supercharger to the V8.

This car will just have two light weight bucket seats and a roll cage inside it! In bhp per tonn I hope I can reach the same numbers as a Ferrari F40

So guys, this is over the moon, but that is something we like here in Scandinavia! winkeye
fuzzy
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:50 pm

good luck with it erik :eek:
SPADGE
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:50 pm

You will need circa 800/900hp just for a start to get to 200mph
Best of luck!
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march109
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:51 pm

Good idea, the aerodynamics of the e30 will make it tough but not impossible, some aero mods wouldn't go amis though. Would certainly help you reach your goal.
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78dude
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:54 pm

There are an E30 with over 1000bhp here in Sweden so I will not make national history!
I will if you read, make an big engine for it and see how fast it goes, I do recond 450 to 500 should be enouge but if that doesnt help I will need to seach for help to the Saab turbo guys..

So its time to do some eBay.co.uk hunt again, first I need a motor! :D
oldroydsr4
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:55 pm

Flat under side will be required,

sounds like fun.
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hoshy
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:57 pm

If anybody but a Scandinavian started this post, I'd write it straight off. Good luck dude. Will be a very interesting project.
E46 M3 CSL but dreaming of another E30.
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:08 pm

78dude wrote:There are an E30 with over 1000bhp here in Sweden so I will not make national history!
I will if you read, make an big engine for it and see how fast it goes, I do recond 450 to 500 should be enouge but if that doesnt help I will need to seach for help to the Saab turbo guys..

So its time to do some eBay.co.uk hunt again, first I need a motor! :D
450-500 horsepower will not get you even close to 200mph!
You may get a genuine 160170 but not over that.
A lot of extra power is required to brake the 200 mph barrier and the amount of power increses dramaticly as you get nearer that mark.
A friend of mine name of Rod Tarry was the first to officialy break 200 in a road legal Sapphire Cosworth and i know the lengths/time and money that took.
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:09 pm

I can't wait to see this project come together! winkeye

I immediately thought of these - :D

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... onnet+seal

Good luck! 8)
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march109
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:14 pm

hoshy wrote:If anybody but a Scandinavian started this post, I'd write it straight off. Good luck dude. Will be a very interesting project.
Spot on :thumb:

Crazy mofos must be something to do with the cold.
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78dude
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:15 pm

SPADGE wrote:
78dude wrote:There are an E30 with over 1000bhp here in Sweden so I will not make national history!
I will if you read, make an big engine for it and see how fast it goes, I do recond 450 to 500 should be enouge but if that doesnt help I will need to seach for help to the Saab turbo guys..

So its time to do some eBay.co.uk hunt again, first I need a motor! :D
450-500 horsepower will not get you even close to 200mph!
You may get a genuine 160170 but not over that.
A lot of extra power is required to brake the 200 mph barrier and the amount of power increses dramaticly as you get nearer that mark.
A friend of mine name of Rod Tarry was the first to officialy break 200 in a road legal Sapphire Cosworth and i know the lengths/time and money that took.

Well if I can do 170mph with 450-500 bhp its a good start I would say because then it can only go one way and that is upward... With this project the target is 200mph or as fast as you can get a "normal" E30 intro the air with out doing something dramatical with the design on the car....
SPADGE
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:23 pm

78dude wrote:
SPADGE wrote:
78dude wrote:There are an E30 with over 1000bhp here in Sweden so I will not make national history!
I will if you read, make an big engine for it and see how fast it goes, I do recond 450 to 500 should be enouge but if that doesnt help I will need to seach for help to the Saab turbo guys..

So its time to do some eBay.co.uk hunt again, first I need a motor! :D
450-500 horsepower will not get you even close to 200mph!
You may get a genuine 160170 but not over that.
A lot of extra power is required to brake the 200 mph barrier and the amount of power increses dramaticly as you get nearer that mark.
A friend of mine name of Rod Tarry was the first to officialy break 200 in a road legal Sapphire Cosworth and i know the lengths/time and money that took.

Well if I can do 170mph with 450-500 bhp its a good start I would say because then it can only go one way and that is upward... With this project the target is 200mph or as fast as you can get a "normal" E30 intro the air with out doing something dramatical with the design on the car....
Don't get me wrong here i'm not doubting your enthusiasm but a reality check is required.
For every 10 mph gain over 160mph the amount of power required will double and treble the nearer you get to your ultimate goal.
Aerodynamics have a massive impact on speed once you get to a certain velocity.
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:34 pm

SPADGE wrote: Aerodynamics have a massive impact on speed once you get to a certain velocity.
An E34 or E36 might be a better platform to start with ?
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:36 pm

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e36boy
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:42 pm

200 mph in an E30 :eek: 8O You're a brave man !
Good luck to you though 78dude.

I have some PBMW Magazines from a few years ago with mental Scandanavian E30's in, So it is achievable.
Jesus325iTouring
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:27 pm

SPADGE wrote: A friend of mine name of Rod Tarry was the first to officialy break 200 in a road legal Sapphire Cosworth and i know the lengths/time and money that took.
Brings back memories Spadge,I remember reading about it at the time :cool:

Good luck you Swedish madman :twisted:
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:31 pm

Jesus325iTouring wrote:
SPADGE wrote: A friend of mine name of Rod Tarry was the first to officialy break 200 in a road legal Sapphire Cosworth and i know the lengths/time and money that took.
Brings back memories Spadge,I remember reading about it at the time :cool:

Good luck you Swedish madman :twisted:
Would that be a white saphire cosworth by any chance ?
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:33 pm

e36boy wrote:
Jesus325iTouring wrote:
SPADGE wrote: A friend of mine name of Rod Tarry was the first to officialy break 200 in a road legal Sapphire Cosworth and i know the lengths/time and money that took.
Brings back memories Spadge,I remember reading about it at the time :cool:

Good luck you Swedish madman :twisted:
Would that be a white saphire cosworth by any chance ?
I reckon so :D
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:36 pm

Jesus325iTouring wrote:
e36boy wrote:
Jesus325iTouring wrote: Brings back memories Spadge,I remember reading about it at the time :cool:

Good luck you Swedish madman :twisted:
Would that be a white saphire cosworth by any chance ?
I reckon so :D
:cool: I have seen this beast also :twisted:
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:44 pm

Erik! Your a fucking nutter! Your gonna have to look at drasticly improving the slip on the e30 shell(if its possible).lol. How bout one of those awful snowplough scoop things on front etc.

Prob gonna need big power and extremely long gearing. Im sure its possible though, anything is possible with the right amount of money really
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:49 pm

Jesus325iTouring wrote:
SPADGE wrote: A friend of mine name of Rod Tarry was the first to officialy break 200 in a road legal Sapphire Cosworth and i know the lengths/time and money that took.
Brings back memories Spadge,I remember reading about it at the time :cool:
It does indeed mate :)

If you click on Barry's link to the other 200 mph thread i put a couple of links to Rod's car in that thread 8)
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:51 pm

Engine conversions, Auto to manual conversions, parts, servicing etc etc... For anything e30 call 07718 901737
Jesus325iTouring
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:56 pm

8) 8) 8) 8)
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:43 am

Good luck ya mad swede nutter :D :D :cool:
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:14 am

Got cable ties? Get diffin..

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www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

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griff87
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:15 am

Rod Tarrys car is a 2 litre 4 pot?!?! Admittedly it is extensivley modified, but I thought you would need much more displacement (v12 etc) to reach 200mph?
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:16 am

Nothing to do with displacement :mad:
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

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griff87
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:21 am

Thanks for that Jhonno very insightful! lol
78dude
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:35 pm

Just one question, are there some one who know the C`d (Drag coefficient) number to the E30 saloon and Touring?
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:35 pm

I reckon an iS with a good ebay chip will have you well over 200mph :)
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:37 pm

Here's a stretch...
when BMW made the E30 M3 they altered the rear screen angle and raised the rear deck. Was this to improve stability, reduce drag or both?
Also, did they learn from this exercise and make sure the touring wasn't affected like the normal saloons?
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:52 pm

Morat wrote:Here's a stretch...
when BMW made the E30 M3 they altered the rear screen angle and raised the rear deck. Was this to improve stability, reduce drag or both?
Also, did they learn from this exercise and make sure the touring wasn't affected like the normal saloons?
Doubt it since the floor pan of 2door, 4door and touring is the same.
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:39 pm

If you double the speed of an object the drag increases by a factor of four (x4 the force).

"Work done" is force x distance, and "rate of work" = power. The funny part is that by doing the same distance in half the time you double the rate the work is done, ie doubling the power again!

So to double the speed (without changing the shape of the object) you need 8x the power.

The E30 touring is listed as being 2800lb, having a frontal area of 1.86sqM (20.02sqFt), a drag coeficient of 0.350 and a "Cx" of 0.65. Based on these numbers this handy calculator ( http://warped.org/cgi-bin/mason.pl/vw/calc.html ) puts the power at the wheels needed to do 200mph at 416.5bhp / 489.9bhp at the crank. This seems a bit low to me still!

What we really need to stick to the rules of thumb is to find someone with an E30 touring that has a top speed of 100mph (shame there's no 313i Tourings to measure! :mad: ), then measure it's power, then multiply that by 8.

OR - do the maths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_resistance
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:46 pm

:|
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:47 pm

being able to achieve 200mph is one thing..

being able to do it within 2 miles or so as per TofB or similar.. Now thats when the extra power comes in.. There is only limited space to do it in
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