Problems fitting hot tuning 6 branch manifold

[BMracing]

My mate fitted my manifold for me yesterday. Unfortunately it didn't go smoothly at all. We expected the studs and nuts to be a nightmare but in fact they most of them came out pretty easily, the front stud was already broken! We managed to get the remains of it out, it was a darker colour than the rest so may not have been original. Then we got to the last one.. The b**tard snapped off flush with the head! It was also a darker colour. He went through about 5 drill bits trying to drill it out, then tried a stud extractor tool, that went in a little way, then snapped.
The most annoying thing was that I needed the car so we had to fit the manifolds for now anyway minus a stud, its all got to come off again to finish the job another day. The fitting wasn't great either, not impressed so far, but we may be able to sort it another day, the downpipes don't sit level so now my tailpipe is on the p*ss, it was also difficult to get it away from the floor of the car, although the sound is good (over the tapping air leak noise anyway, which was even worse than expected!) and it doesn't seem to have lost any performance, if anything it seems slightly quicker at higher revs, despite the leak.
Any ideas on how to get that stud out, am I going to have to get it helicoiled? Also, has anyone had problems with the fit of these and how have they got around it.

Cheers,

Max

[harry_p]

i recently had to remove a stud which snapped just bellow the surface of the head on a golf. managed to get the tip of my wele=der close enough to it and built it up with weld till it was just proud, then welded a nut on. luckily the heat from the welding also helped free it off and came out fine

[Templ8e30]

You'll struggle to get it out now you've snapped an extractor in the stud, the extractor is harder than the drill bit.

The only real option besides taking the head off and having it spark eroded are to use some expensive but super hard carbide drill bits and helicoil it.

Cheers,

Iain T

[BMracing]

Thanks for your comments guys.

Harry thats an interesting method, I don't know anyone willing to have a crack at that but well done for pulling that off!
Iain, yes i realise the extractor is hardened steel, i'll leave to the imagination the amount of cursing that occured when that broke!
I've been told that the head would have to come off anyway to get it helicoiled, or do you think it can be done with it left on?

Cheers,

Max

[Fushion_Julz]

It can be done (helicoiled) with the head in place...Removing the stud extractor, though, may be a different prospect

[daimlerman]

Would expect that Murphy's first law applies here.'If an M20 exhaust stud is to break,it will be the lower one on number 6 that is all but impossible to extract without removing the head'... as far as the hottuning manifold goes, have you fitted the support bracket from the manifold to the gearbox? The tailpipe on my car is very close to the cutout side on the left,rather than being central...but I had put this down to my poor welding skills(first attempt) in joining the two sections of the exhaust together.Why did I weld the exhaust up? I bought the rear and centre sections from GSF and they did not slot together as expected.I had already butchered the front of the centre section to make a sliding joint so could not take it back....

[BMracing]

Would expect that Murphy's first law applies here.'If an M20 exhaust stud is to break,it will be the lower one on number 6 that is all but impossible to extract without removing the head'... as far as the hottuning manifold goes, have you fitted the support bracket from the manifold to the gearbox? The tailpipe on my car is very close to the cutout side on the left,rather than being central...but I had put this down to my poor welding skills(first attempt) in joining the two sections of the exhaust together.Why did I weld the exhaust up? I bought the rear and centre sections from GSF and they did not slot together as expected.I had already butchered the front of the centre section to make a sliding joint so could not take it back....

Yes it had to be that stud!
We could not get that gearbox bracket on the new pipes, so another area yet to be resolved. But that still won't help the fact that the whole exhaust doesn't sit level.
My problem with the tailpipes is the other way round, they sit too close to the middle of the car, on the o/s of the cutout. It's a Mongoose centre and rear section.

[goosiegander]

My manifold went on well enough although it was a bit fiddly, if you can remove and refit a head then just take it to a machine shop and get it drilled out and the thread cleaned up. You can very jently bar the rear pipes on the exhaust to realign the backbox

[daimlerman]

I found that the bolt that goes between the pipes would not fit,but I was able to get the other two home with the aid of a jack.I left the bracket off initaly,but the thump of the manifold on the floor by my feet iritated me!! I find myself 'heeling and toeing' down the 'box into coorners now,just to hear the crackle from the damn thing!!

[Speedtouch]

Is this six-branch fitted to a 2- or 3-piece exhaust? I'm guessing 2-piece since you mention the GSF centre and back sections; sounds like you've had quite alot of hassle getting them to fit

Cheers,

[BMracing]

The car has a 3 piece system.
I'm in the workshop now with my mate and we've just had it all apart again. He managed to drill that stud out and re-thread it. The new stud went in fine and all was going well.
What did confuse us was the amount of soot on the back gasket that has built up over the past week, not just around the 6th port where the stud snapped, but around all 3. I placed one of the gaskets against the back half of the manifold and the f***ing thing doesn't line up!!!
Looking at the gasket in more detail we could see the slight marking where the gasket has sat for the past week, it overlaps all 3 pipes by probably 9mm or so on one side, and on the other there's barely any gasket to seal it. We didn't notice this last week because we lined the gasket up with the head not the manifold. Thing is if you turn the gasket upside down it lines up with the manifold perfectly, but obviously the heatshield is pointing downwards. Then thinking we were being clever we cut the heatshields off and turned the gaskets around, stupidly forgetting that this would mean that now it wouldn't line up with the ports on the head, now its blowing even worse, I don't want to drive it now tbh.
So I guess this is a manufacturing defect and they've welded the flange upside down against the pipes.
I will post pics when I get home.

[Onz]

have you spoken to HT about this?

[fuzzy]

drop them a line and see what they will do about it.

[daimlerman]

That's odd.My manifold almost dropped on with next to no hassle.Sorry you are having such problems.Maurice,I have centre and rear sections of a 3 piece GSF system,needed to modifiy the fron of the centre to mate to the manifold as the manifold comes with 1 bolt up joint and 1 sliding joint(centre section came with 2 bolt up joints)

[Speedtouch]

Thanks for the info. Think I'll delay fitting mine...sounds like a hassle that's worth putting off for as long as possible!

[siddiqi1]

i was seariously thinkingo f getting one of these!

This experience hasnt boosted my confidence at all, but do really hope you get it sorted

And then let us really know howi t sounds and feels

keep at it gezza, dont give in!

[goosiegander]

perhaps a one off fabrication error as the first few of these that have gone on havent given too much of a ball ache to the fitters

[agent006]

There have been issues fitting mine but not the "fundamentally wrong fabrication" issues in this thread. I bought it knowing it's a cheap copy of a good design, and as such i can't complain that i've got a cheap copy of a good design.

[fowler]

where di you get the exhaust gaskets from ??? do they come as part of the kit ???

[daimlerman]

where di you get the exhaust gaskets from ??? do they come as part of the kit ???

No gaskets with the manifold,just three sexy curved lumps of stainless steel

[goosiegander]

No gaskets with the manifold,just three sexy curved lumps of stainless steel

Fu*k Yeah! lol!

[Speedtouch]

Looks hot Goosie Do you notice any difference in the way the car runs?

[cliffybabe]

I do like the look of the these Manifolds cos there shiny, But there is no way im parting with my Alpina 6branch

[daimlerman]

I do like the look of the these Manifolds cos there shiny, But there is no way im parting with my Alpina 6branch

When you drive your car they go a lovely shade of blue.... when mine arrived she sat on the dining room floor for a fortnight,she looked so sexy 'er indoors was well jealous...

[goosiegander]

Thanks!

I notice a difference driving both with drivability and the sound lol! the shine needs constant maintainance tho sooner or later microfractures form and the damn thing goes dull, microfibre cloth and some metal polish each weekend should do it though

[Speedtouch]

What system do you have it hooked up to?

[goosiegander]

its a full scorpion dtm and it sounds lovely

[Speedtouch]

Nice one dude, did it need any modification to fit? Hottuning should offer a s/s system to match...

[goosiegander]

no modification to the scorpion 3 piece, just remove the down pipes and the manifold bolts up to the centre box -nuts and bolts

[cliffybabe]

I do like the look of the these Manifolds cos there shiny, But there is no way im parting with my Alpina 6branch

When you drive your car they go a lovely shade of blue.... when mine arrived she sat on the dining room floor for a fortnight,she looked so sexy 'er indoors was well jealous...

[BMracing]

Ok guys, I didn't have a chance last night but here are the pics:

This is the back gasket that doesn't line up with the pipes, you can see the soot around it and where it has sat against the pipes the past week and that it is quite a long way from fitting properly


And here you can see how the manifold doesn't line up with the exhaust ports


A shot of the gasket against the pipes (front one used for the pic)



I have sent a detailed email to hottuning with those pics so hopefully they can sort me out with a rear manifold section quickly. I'm supposed to be taking this car on the zone roam! My tech 1 is in bits.

Now i've calmed down, i'd say to those that are now a bit weary about getting one shouldn't be, it seems as said that this is a one off case. Its otherwise well made and the front section fitted very well. As long they sort me out with the new pipes quickly and some compensation then i'll be happy with it.
I still can't believe the performance improved (and I assure you it did) with that amount of gasket overlapping the pipe, will only get better!
Its off the road though now, i'm not driving it with that blow, so i'm not too sure how i'm getting to work this week.

fowler the gaskets are genuine BMW from Paul, bought seperately I think.
goosiegander your bay is looking

[Speedtouch]

A bit far out man - still, it does come from the Netherlands...

How much were the gaskets?

[BMracing]

Guys,

I have to wait 2 months for a new manifold!!!
Hottuning say that every manifold they have in stock has the same problem!
They have confirmed that the defect is that the flange has indeed been welded on the wrong way round on the back section.
They say someone else has reported it as well and I have had a guy from the zone pm me saying he has the same problem.

Hottuning told me it should fit for the time being as their other customer with the problem managed to get it to fit without any apparent leaks.
However, we couldn't get it to fit without leaking and i'm not prepared to drive it around like that so we dug my old rusty bits out of the metal skip and put them back on for now.
Makes me wonder though, if the other guy managed to fit it and it didn't leak, are there any other e30s out there with this manifold that have sealed ok but the pipes aren't lined up properly? If you placed the gaskets over the studs in the head and then put the pipes on, you might not notice, just like we didn't the first time!
Hottuning have been pretty good so far since, always quick to respond to my emails, although i get the feeling we're not always on the same wavelength. They have offered to compensate me, although i don't know how much yet, and even offered to send a new defective manifold to see if it would fit any better for the time being, can't see it making any difference though!

So obviously all of you that have got new ht manifolds or are getting them, for pete's sake check the gaskets against the pipes before you fit them!

Cheers,

Max

[BMracing]

Oh Speedtouch sorry, the gaskets were basically £20 +vat from paul (zimmerbimmer)

Cheers

[Speedtouch]

Thanks Max,
I'll have to take a look at my Hottuning manifold (haven't fitted it yet due to not having a 3-piece centre section). Hope you get it sorted soon.
Cheers,