2.3 vs 2.0 & 2.5

[m1key]

Whats the difference between the 2.3 & 2.5 ??

just seems no one talks much about the 2.3.

mike

[Sjoerd320i]

the 2.3 was only fitted to the earlier models and has a different system then motronic iirc
somebody correct me if i'm wrong

[StuBeeDoo]

'23 was nearer in spec to the '20. I think I'm right in saying they both used the same 'head. '23 used Jetronic ignition/injection system and '25 used Motronic right from the start. Early '20 was Jetronic and went over to Motronic around '87ish.
Anyone know any different?? Usual rules apply; correct me if I'm wrong!
Stuart.

[m1key]

what about power/torque etc ?

is a 2.3 really in the middle or more to the 2.0 side ?

mike

[StuBeeDoo]

what about power/torque etc ?

is a 2.3 really in the middle or more to the 2.0 side ?

mike

I don't know about torque, but from memory, BHP on early '23's was 139 and later cars had 150. I suspect that the reason that the '23's don't get talked about much is that they were only produced in right hand drive for about 3 years. Most of them will have rotted to nothing by now, and the '25 is "The Car To Have".

[astondg]

Most of them will have rotted to nothing by now

Not this one!

Later model 2.3L specs are 110kW (about 148hp) and 205Nm (about 151lbft), 1/4 mile times I have seen in tests are in the low 16 sec (323i's only weighed 1090kg according to the owners book). I think the 325i's are high 15 sec, maybe mid 15's with an LSD?

I guess it would be an in between engine, 15kW more than the 2L and 15kW less than the 2.5L, 31Nm more than the 2L and 20Nm less than the 2.5L.

Table here (From www.e30.de ) http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfis ... m&lp=de_en

Don't know if there so great for tuning though, I have full exhaust and 6 branch, AFM replaced with MAP, and standalone engine management, which should bring the power up to 2.5L specs but it is still slow . That is with a 4.1LSD too.

Aston

[A1BMW325iSport]

the 323i also had rear disc brakes, and i`ve seen a few with Lsd`s as well, they are pretty rare now as rust has got to pretty much all of them by now.

also they can`t be chipped as they run L-jetronic, you can buy a peformanc ecu that gives about 10% extra power but they are quite expensive.

[m1key]

i have just won one on Ebay.

B plate.

yee haa thats 2 E30s now

[StuBeeDoo]

i have just won one on Ebay.

B plate.

yee haa thats 2 E30s now

Haway then Mikey, tell us all about it!
Stuart.

[m1key]

collecting her next week so shall tell u all then.

[dazleeds]

i think the 323 should def be modded more i have a c plate here and am planning to put the engine into one of my twin delphins asap ok its not quite a 325 but when i last drove it went like sh*t off a shovel and was a hell of a lot better on juice than my 320i is also have heard you can make em run with the motronic setup so will be considering this for sure as for my other delphin shes gonna be at least a 3litre oneday when funds are available cheers Daz leeds

[StuBeeDoo]

also have heard you can make em run with the motronic setup so will be considering this for sure

Mmmmm....... Here's a thought. '23 converted to Motronic, with '25 throttle body conversion. That ought to make close to '25 power! I'd have thought that to make it run on Motronic you'd be using '20 bits, including the inlet manifold.
Now you've got me thinking. I've got a spare 731 type head, all I'd need would be a '23 bottom end. 323i Touring anyone??
......... And before anyone says "just put a '25 lump in". Here's what I say..... "I'd rather be a bit different!"

[m1key]

what difference is it going to make if its motronic ??

is that not just for the ignition timing ?

[StuBeeDoo]

what difference is it going to make if its motronic ??

is that not just for the ignition timing ?

Motronic is the integrated ignition/injection system. You don't have a conventional distributor with Motronic, whereas with Jetronic you do.

[chu346]

m1key have you sent that head yet mate, I've PM'd you a few times but i've had no responce.

[astondg]

Oh great, everybody finds the 2.3L good for tuning except me . Why is mine so slooooow?!

Aston

[320Touring]

I'm sure that with a bit of care and attention the 323 could yeild 325 beating power figures (in terms of torque)

although it does appear that Astondg has had considerable problems with it

tell you what aston, why dont you list the FULL specs of the car on here and get some of the lads to have a look? also include copies of the dyno runs...

could be a control problem that may be making your's 'slow'?

[astondg]

I might try that in the next couple of weeks. I have exams until Thursday but after that I'll get details of what tuning the computer has, dyno results, and see if I can get a run or 2 with our G-Tech. Then I'll post in the tech section and see if any of you guys with you amazing knowledge of the E30's and tuning can help me out.

It's probably just me / my car though, I have these problems with everything. I'm not very good at getting things to work properly . I'm one of those unco-ordinated people that looks out of place doing most things.

Have I mentioned that I once stalled a car with an automatic transmission? That sums me up really.

Aston

[320Touring]

I might try that in the next couple of weeks. I have exams until Thursday but after that I'll get details of what tuning the computer has, dyno results, and see if I can get a run or 2 with our G-Tech. Then I'll post in the tech section and see if any of you guys with you amazing knowledge of the E30's and tuning can help me out.

It's probably just me / my car though, I have these problems with everything. I'm not very good at getting things to work properly . I'm one of those unco-ordinated people that looks out of place doing most things.

Have I mentioned that I once stalled a car with an automatic transmission? That sums me up really.

Aston

chill dude! and smile

could be something really simple and small that is affecting its performance!

just thought that giving the guys all the info in one would go would probably give them the best shot at getting it to its full potenetial

[Simon13]

isn't it obvious that 2.3's are sh!te? thats why they invented the 2.5

Or am i stating the obvious?

[StuBeeDoo]

isn't it obvious that 2.3's are sh!te? thats why they invented the 2.5

Or am i stating the obvious?

Simon. Isn't it obvious to you that there are people on this forum who like to be a bit different and actually don't want to do a 2.5 or a 2.7 because it's what everyone does??
........ And yes I know that "everyone" does it because it's tried and tested, but why should we all have the same? 2.3's aren't sh!te, as you put it, they are E30's.
Do you think that BMW upgraded the '23 to '25 simply because they decided the concept was naff? It was more likely that they thought it a logical progression.
Let's face it, compared to the M50 the M20 is sh!te. Why don't you bin your M20 and put a M50 in?? It isn't that difficult and there's enough guys here who can advise you if you come up against any problems.
As long as it's an E30, it shouldn't matter what the owner does to it.

[jamie325isport]

isn't it obvious that 2.3's are sh!te? thats why they invented the 2.5

Or am i stating the obvious?

Simon. Isn't it obvious to you that there are people on this forum who like to be a bit different and actually don't want to do a 2.5 or a 2.7 because it's what everyone does??
........ And yes I know that "everyone" does it because it's tried and tested, but why should we all have the same? 2.3's aren't sh!te, as you put it, they are E30's.
Do you think that BMW upgraded the '23 to '25 simply because they decided the concept was naff? It was more likely that they thought it a logical progression.
Let's face it, compared to the M50 the M20 is sh!te. Why don't you bin your M20 and put a M50 in?? It isn't that difficult and there's enough guys here who can advise you if you come up against any problems.
As long as it's an E30, it shouldn't matter what the owner does to it.

That told you Simon!! The 323i was/is a good car, i had one it was my first BMW and i loved it! Wasnt that slow either it kept with a Mtech 1 sport up to about 100 (topped out at 120ish). But i think it was a special one? It had cream cloth recaros and had a low ratio box/diff (there first attempt at a sport?) and was in a very similar red colour of the original XR3i. I was gutted when i sold it for spares because of rust. It did teach me alot about driving a E30, many a 360!

[Simon13]

so it had a dogleg box and lsd? i like my M20 in 2.5 it revs and it has torque as the 2.3 and 2.7 don't have in such a balanced way.

Why does everyone just not worry about being different and enjoy a 2.5 or 2.7? how many people do u really know with 2.7s? 5-10? maybe.

If there was anything useful to be done to a 2.3 M20 to make it go it would of already been done. I know we are all in the same ship but do u really think u can make a 2.3 go really well so u can be different? If the BMW tuners didn't think so i doubt u can? i maybe wrong of course.

So that leads me back to my point. The early 2.3's were 130bhp or something? Plus our man in aus here keeps saying his car is slow so why does no one listen to him?

[StuBeeDoo]

Why does everyone just not worry about being different and enjoy a 2.5 or 2.7? how many people do u really know with 2.7s? 5-10? maybe.

Why should we? If someone chooses to drive 'round in a rusty '83 316 carb, it's not your devine right to diss them for it. If everyone put a 2.5 or 2.7 in their E30, there wouldn't be enough engines to go 'round! Why do you think that BMW make cars with a choice of engines?? It's all about personal preference. OK, so you prefer the '25 - that's your choice. BTW you didn't answer my question about the M50.

If there was anything useful to be done to a 2.3 M20 to make it go it would of already been done. I know we are all in the same ship but do u really think u can make a 2.3 go really well so u can be different? If the BMW tuners didn't think so i doubt u can? i maybe wrong of course.

It isn't about trying to out-do the BMW tuners, so you are wrong on that point. What it is about is not "following the herd". If I put a '25 throttle body on my '20, it's not for the likes of you to slag me(or any of the others who have done/are doing it) off. I do it because I choose to. I don't mod my car to keep you happy, I do it for my own personal enjoyment. I could put a '25 in my Touring tomorrow. Or I could have a 2.7 built and in the car in a couple of weeks but I choose not to!

So that leads me back to my point. The early 2.3's were 130bhp or something? Plus our man in aus here keeps saying his car is slow so why does no one listen to him?

Early '23's were 139bhp and later ones were 150bhp.
320Touring has asked astondg to post the specs of his engine, and we're waiting for a reply. I'll be the first to admit that I'm probably not experienced enough to advise astondg, but there's bound to be someone (or two or three) here who can. Maybe there is a problem with his car. There are plenty of people who think that the '23 was quick enough, just because one guy says his seems slow doesn't mean they're all like that.

Aston, get those specs up! The way this thread's going, I really want you to be able to sort it - just to prove a point.

[StuBeeDoo]

Actually Simon, I've got another question for you.....
I'd like to put a M54B30 engine in my Touring. If I do it, will it give me the right to continually diss your M20B25??

[StuBeeDoo]

The early 2.3's were 130bhp or something?

So what is your point Simon? Do you think that anything less than 170bhp means a reduction in the driver's d!ck size?? It's not what you've got, it's what you do with it that counts. Take it from me, I know - I've had cars with 200+bhp and I wouldn't swap my 129bhp 320i for any of them.
....... And on the subject of it's not what you've got etc:... I bet that any well driven 320i or 323i could keep up with you in your 325i all day long!

[astondg]

Uh oh, it's started now .

The reason I have the 2.3 is because that is what came with the car, and the reason I have the car is because it was cheap (compared to the 325is out here) and came with Recaros, LSD, sports suspension, and I think some other things .

The reason I wouldn't go to a 2.5 or 2.7 is because if I was going to the trouble of changing engines (and/or building up a 2.7) I would go to a "better" (my opinion) engine anyway. The M20 isn't exactly advanced and I like engines that rev .

Maybe it's just my opinion about it being slow anyway, maybe it's not that bad. I really do think it is, and my previous car did about an 18sec 1/4 mile so this should feel quick, but besides that the only other car I have to compare it to right now is a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI. Compared to that I imagine a lot of cars would feel a bit slow, but I don't drive it often and I don't usually compare it to my car.

Anyway after Thursday we will see. Now to find a nice piece of road where I can do a 1/4 mile run, so I going to need full throttle for at least a minute then .

EDIT: forgot to mention that my clutch my be taking a bit of power away, it was over half worn when I got the car and in the last year I have done over 20 track and race days, which probably weren't so kind, and 10,000+km of road driving. It's grab point is a lot higher up now.

Aston

[m1key]

he he he

2.3 = better insurance

compramise on 2.0/2.5

and time to tune her up now

[m1key]

http://www.fritzsbits.co.uk/

I quote

Guess which is our favourite engine?
Take the big valves from the two point five, install into the two point three head, slap on top of the two point three bottom end, triple Webers, long dwell cam, six branch, You see where this is going, canÔš't you?

[320Touring]

Comparing a merc 2.3 of 1985 to a 1985 323....

Merc

2299cc
132bhp and 146lbft
94.29 bhp/ton

0-60mph 9.90secs

323i

2316cc
148bhp and 151lbft
131.32bhp/ton

0-60mph 8.3secs

so as you can see, the 323 was a pretty handy tool in its day, and only 12.5bhp/ton down on an early 325[/b]

[m1key]

bring it on then.... throttle bodies & standalone engine management.

[m1key]

bring it on then.... throttle bodies & standalone engine management.

[Simon13]

u can dis my car all u want,me and anything else u can pick holes in me for.

Seriously u choose to drive a 320?

Would be a bit better if u start a simon13 bashing thread?

Tell me this why do people take the bait everytime on here? The only theme i can find is that the people who react drive 320's generally. I find it makes for a better discussion than arse licking each other

[m1key]

u can dis my car all u want,me and anything else u can pick holes in me for.

Seriously u choose to drive a 320?

Would be a bit better if u start a simon13 bashing thread?

Tell me this why do people take the bait everytime on here? The only theme i can find is that the people who react drive 320's generally. I find it makes for a better discussion than arse licking each other

Just your comments seemed to be negative and non-constructive. chillax man.

Hey my 323 is that old you dont need to pick holes in it, its got enough rusty spots already.

2.0 was a bit flat for me and 2.5 is mega on insurance. 2.3 is the ideal compramise for both.

Each to there own...

[Simon13]

2.3s are good but most are dead now which is a shame.

I'm ok! just joking but we must be serious it's an E30 forum