Extra tall engine mounts

[handpaper]

The coilover setup going on the car this week (hopefully) should provide excellent grip and handling on the 'Ring, as it's a slightly improved replica of the H&R 'Ring kit.
The only problem I can see is that it will lower the car 70mm at the front - great for a low CofG, less good for keeping the sump in one piece.
Would it be feasible to raise the engine slightly (20mm max), just to make the front crossmember the lowest part of the car?

[maggspower]

Surely by doing this you are counteracting the action of lowering it somewhat as you will be puting the CofG higher up again, wouldent it be better to make a sump guard?

cheers maggs

[tomtomiS]

might not be enough clearance on fan to rad and such like if you put different mounts in

[Jhonno]

custom big wing sump? prob the better option..

[Dave_M3]

Ya, you'll be needing to fabritcate a new cowling, rad piping etc then since the the engine is only able to be lifted around 10mm as far as I know when I was wooring about my rack clearing the sump when I wanted to try mount the spacers underneath it.

A good sump gaurd would be the easiest way out I would think.
Having your subframe getting a beating wouldn't be a great idea either in fairness.

[tomtomiS]

Ya, you'll be needing to fabritcate a new cowling, rad piping etc then since the the engine is only able to be lifted around 10mm as far as I know when I was wooring about my rack clearing the sump when I wanted to try mount the spacers underneath it.

A good sump gaurd would be the easiest way out I would think.
Having your subframe getting a beating wouldn't be a great idea either in fairness.

what is "wooring"?

[dibdab]

Wooring is what you do when your car is in bits between rebuilds or upgrades. You miss driving your car, so you sit behind the steering wheel and make "wooring" noises.

[Dave_M3]

New Sig

That's the funniest post I've seen in a long time. The the best part about it is I was nearly doing it the time I put in my E36 rack but had no tyres to put on the car so I was sitting there with the car jacked up and it was like being a 5 year old again, lol

[Dave_M3]

what is "wooring"?

suppose, I had that one coming, when I asked you what did Tharping your car

[handpaper]

Wooring is what you do when your car is in bits between rebuilds or upgrades. You miss driving your car, so you sit behind the steering wheel and make "wooring" noises.

Like it!

Thanks for the replies

Didn't think about the radiator fan/cowling. I could probably shave 5-10mm off the fan though, and a couple of tap washers would jack the cowling up a little.

I was more concerned about the effect on the driveline - a couple of washers on the gearbox mounts might be useful, to keep stress of the front propshaft UJ.

No, a bashed subframe isn't a good thing, but it doesn't break open and spill oil everywhere like a bashed sump!

[Dave_M3]

It could crack you steering rack too like if you hit something with the subframe sine the rack would be the first line of defense now if the sump is out of the way

Just get a nice big sump guard, lol

[dibdab]

How about not lowering it so far, 70mm drop is massive.

[Theo]

You could use the ice hockey puck idea that UweM3 suggested the other day, that way you could choose your desired height.

What are these coilovers then? DIY? Would be very interested to see them if they are.

[handpaper]

Theo - That's one of the ways I was looking to do it, actually - not cutting one of the pucks down should give about 10-15mm of extra height

Yep, homemade coilovers, using Gaz's weld-on kit. The ride height is set by the length of the Koni adjustables I'm using and the long rebound travel needed at the 'Ring. Different shocks might let me bring it up by 20mm or so. Spring rates for the H&R 'Ring kit were posted on here some time ago, so I've copied them, but because OEM-style pigtail springs for the rear aren't available in a range of lengths and rates, I'm converting the rear as well. About £400 with the rear conversion, just the fronts would have been around £70 plus shocks

I'll post pics here and on northloop when it's done

[Dave_M3]

Agreen is doing a group buy for the spacers
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=94746

[Theo]

Theo - That's one of the ways I was looking to do it, actually - not cutting one of the pucks down should give about 10-15mm of extra height

Yep, homemade coilovers, using Gaz's weld-on kit. The ride height is set by the length of the Koni adjustables I'm using and the long rebound travel needed at the 'Ring. Different shocks might let me bring it up by 20mm or so. Spring rates for the H&R 'Ring kit were posted on here some time ago, so I've copied them, but because OEM-style pigtail springs for the rear aren't available in a range of lengths and rates, I'm converting the rear as well. About £400 with the rear conversion, just the fronts would have been around £70 plus shocks

I'll post pics here and on northloop when it's done

Sounds good James, I look forward to seeing the end result.

A quick question, where can you get the Gaz weld on kit from? A quick search on google has revealed nothing.

[agreen]

i can make custom uprated engine mounts , to what ever size you need mate i can send you a few diffrent sizes if you need try them , if they are to big to low etc send them back ,

they come as a kit and can be fitted very easilly let me know what you think

[UweM3]

You could use the ice hockey puck idea that UweM3 suggested the other day, that way you could choose your desired height.

What are these coilovers then? DIY? Would be very interested to see them if they are.

I wouldn't raise the engine full stop. Drive line alignment and gearshifter problems I can imagine. Fit a sumpguard if you're worried. Or raise it a little. 70mm is a lot for a semi road/ring car IMO

[handpaper]

Sounds good James, I look forward to seeing the end result.

A quick question, where can you get the Gaz weld on kit from? A quick search on google has revealed nothing.

It's the same kit sold by Rally Design and Demon Tweeks; threaded tube, spring seat and top hat. I'll also have a spring adaptor in there as I'm running a tender spring on top of the main spring.
The kit is actually cheaper from Rally Design (and from Demon Tweeks!), but it's not worth my kvetching over a tenner when I'm spending 400 notes; I'd rather just get the whole lot from the one place. And they give good advice

Uwe - 10-15mm shouldn't be a problem as there's more movement than that in the stock mounts! Replacing the standard rubber with poly or your pucks (cool mod BTW) will effectively raise by about 5mm as they don't sag.
As I said earlier, the 70mm drop is largely down to the shocks I've got and having to allow lots of rebound travel. For road use I can run different springs and wind up the preload to give some more ride height.

agreen - that would be handy! 5mm over OE rubber height, in bolt-through poly would be ideal. Any idea how much that would cost?

[Theo]

Ahh right, that kit is for 50mm struts, i'm assuming a little bit of shaving was needed to get them on the 325i legs?

Pics/writeup ASAP please!

[handpaper]

AFAIK, it will slip over the strut fairly easily - I'll know when it gets here. Pics etc then
PS - Gaz contact details HERE

[Theo]

Ahh ok, I thought you were a bit further advanced with the project! £400 for a full conversion seems like money well spent to me. I think my car would really benefit from this due to the heavier engine etc, i'd want to retain my hartge bilstein shocks though - not sure if this will be a problem though? Think i'd give the tender spring a miss, do these serve any purpose besides keeping the spring properly seated when the car is in the air?

[handpaper]

The conversion modifies your existing front struts, so yes, you can reuse your shocks. You'll need to turn/file/grind down the shock retaining collar or it may foul the spring. Whether they'll be hard enough to match the spring rate depends on your choice of spring (I'm using 650 lb/in front springs, you'll probably need even stiffer ones ).
The tender spring is there to give extra rebound travel when the suspension is unloaded, for instance when going over a crest or coming off a kerb. If it weren't there, the very stiff main spring could only extend about 35mm before the wheel left the ground, which isn't good for stability on our favorite bumpy circuit
It's almost as stiff itself as the standard front springs (90lb/in tender - 106lb/in standard front) as it has to act against the resistance of a very hard shock absorber, but at rest and over small bumps it stays fully compressed and doesn't affect the overall spring rate.

The kind of spring that 'keeps the spring properly seated when the car is in the air' is called a helper spring. Typical rates for these are 4-10 lb/in.

[Jhonno]

i've been advised to run 500lb springs front and 225lb rears (proper rear coilovers tho) with an S50 up front (same weight as M30)

i cant help but feel that what you are planning on doing is a backward step after making the forward one, the engine is one of the main single weights of the car and you want to raise it up having just lowered it

i dont think a custom sump would be that much and could offer more benefit

[Jhonno]

plus as Uwe said, the issues with alignment etc..

[agreen]

higher engine higher center of gravity at the end of the day , all the weight needs to be low down as low as poss to a certain degree

[n1tr0_9]

Could you try a dry sump conversion?

[UweM3]

Ahh right, that kit is for 50mm struts, i'm assuming a little bit of shaving was needed to get them on the 325i legs?

Pics/writeup ASAP please!

yes pics please. I am going to make a conversion like this very soon.
I just wonder how you could lower the car 70mm with "stock" shocks.
What top mounts are you using? Fancy a chat over the phone?

[Theo]

James, I've sent you a long PM asking various stupid questions, although it's not showing up in my outbox or sentbox, let me know if you get anything please!

[handpaper]

Nothing in my inbox Theo, sorry
IIRC, the Sentbox holds 5 messages and the Outbox 10. If the Sentbox is full, messages go to the Outbox, presumably when that fills up they drop off the system?
You and Uwe are both welcome to call me on 07964 692 924 - I'm in most mornings

[Theo]

I've tried again!

[UweM3]

Theo - That's one of the ways I was looking to do it, actually - not cutting one of the pucks down should give about 10-15mm of extra height

Yep, homemade coilovers, using Gaz's weld-on kit. The ride height is set by the length of the Koni adjustables I'm using and the long rebound travel needed at the 'Ring. Different shocks might let me bring it up by 20mm or so. Spring rates for the H&R 'Ring kit were posted on here some time ago, so I've copied them, but because OEM-style pigtail springs for the rear aren't available in a range of lengths and rates, I'm converting the rear as well. About £400 with the rear conversion, just the fronts would have been around £70 plus shocks

I'll post pics here and on northloop when it's done

Just been on the phone talking to GAZ and they don't know anything about a weld on kit. Can you give me more details please?

[Black_Potato]

You could use the ice hockey puck idea that UweM3 suggested the other day, that way you could choose your desired height.

What are these coilovers then? DIY? Would be very interested to see them if they are.

I wouldn't raise the engine full stop. Drive line alignment and gearshifter problems I can imagine. Fit a sumpguard if you're worried. Or raise it a little. 70mm is a lot for a semi road/ring car IMO

What he said... you would probably get dynamic toe and loads of other undesirable things as well....

[n1tr0_9]

Whats dynamic toe? related to camel toe?

[handpaper]

Dynamic toe would be changes in wheel alignment caused by suspension movement. I've never heard of it actually happening - as long as the suspension pivot points and track rod joints are at the same height it can't.

Uwe, do Gaz make the threaded tube to sit on the stub of the OE spring seat? Or does it slip on over the damper rod?
To be honest, I didn't ask - it makes very little difference to me