2.5 M50 500hp.

[Onz]

nice one mate, but how you going to get the airflow into the oil cooler once the lower lip goes on?

[Gunni]

That is not going to be a problem, if it is, I´ll relocate to a different cooler.

[Colonel Sanders]

lookin good buddy, more an more turbos poppin up now!!
keep it up..

[euan]

looking good keep up the good work

[Gunni]

The vems adapter is assembled, just need to test it and finalize it.

[Karan]

pics of turbo fitted???
cant wait to see this done and in action

[Gunni]

Nothing yet. I can´t finish yet so I´m fixing it to go back on the road for 2 weeks, next weekend I have to be in iceland mapping a rally car so that weekend is not good either, so it´s going to be the weekend after that.

But I´m going to try and test the vems adapter over the weekend anyway, see if I get sparks or whatever,
I´ll beginning adapter production soon enough after that
I have 3 to make at least now

[delphini]

Nice car mate , i too recently purchased a 1990 ZINNO sedan 5 spd. 134000 original miles 3:73 lsd that had coughed a timing belt..... this will be the secong e30 in our family and i can hardly wait until i get her back on the road!!!! Good luck with your project .

[Onz]

u going to have adjustable boost on that via the vems?

[Gunni]

Update.



I´m installing it tomorrow and starting the mapping.
I´ve finished the adapter and am going to make more very soon.
new wiring is, injectors, wbo2, tps, air temp,
rest is from the original harness.
Those things where not usable and had to be rewired but car is still easily reversible by installing the afm and old tps in again and connecting the injectors..

I ran through some data and the adapter works on all Motronic 1.3 ecu cars. that´s all later m20´s and m30´s.

I will be running boost control through the vems , but turbo is not going to be installed until after easter, I´m going back home to map a few cars over easter.

I´m also putting in the 42lbs injectors.
Also moved the oil cooler, since I have the small radiator, there is space right below it, it´s sitting there right now, but I´m going to secure it in the air stream soon enough,.

Chris-W will be replacing my subframe bushes next weekend hopefully,
that is going to be so much nicer, also I might trick him into doing the fuel tank as well.
I´ve also been thinking about brakes and am kinda leaning towards the 300mm.de stuff more so the 308mm size.

[Gunni]

revvy revvy nice nice fun fun win win.

I´m going to be doing the adapter alittle differently but
the main design was a success.

fitted some 450s while I was doing it, and got rid of the afm, I was sceptical
that I might have issues , but the ecu is so good at running by it self.
so I don´t see a reason to store the AFM.
I was even able to drive around without any issues. TPS needs to be calibrated and then the VE
table,
Some pics tomorrow or when I clean things up a bit.
in the engine bay all you see is a T piece on the vacuum line and some tubing for the new wires.
along with the new air filter.

I HATE wires everywhere on standalone setups. it makes me insane.

[Onz]

Got any pictures?

Also what TPS are you using? And you mentioned old TPS. I didnt think E30's had a TPS as standard

[Gunni]

well e30 do have tps´s only the switch ones,
I´m using a M50 one at the moment.

No pics, maybe tomorrow.

[Onz]

cool thanks, thats good to know

Did u use a RR to produce the initial map?

[Gunni]

no, it´s a m30b35 map,
but there where some issues with other things in the configuration
after that it´s working real nice.

[Onz]

what kind off issues? and why was it better to use the M30 map, dont u have an m20 in there?

[Gunni]

the map doesn´t matter,
it was cold starting setup.

[oakey]

Have you noticed much of an improvement with the standalone system running Gunni?

[Gunni]

well I´ve only drive a few miles,
but after mapping it should all be better, it does idle smoother.

[oakey]

well I´ve only drive a few miles,
but after mapping it should all be better, it does idle smoother.

Oh. I thought you had it all finished

[Gunni]

There was a problem with the afm anyway as I´m sure there was some ohm readings droping off it
at idle point as it hunted, as in the pw of the injectors was missing when the afm didn´t give a reading.

not a problem anymore

[Onz]

ahhh yes the true glory of standalone on an E30.......we get to scrap that dodgy AFM!!!!

[Gunni]

I haven´t done any mapping yet. bit rough cold start but other then that it´s nice to drive.
will make time to map it soon enough though.

[Jhonno]

VEMS is the bigger brother to M/S yes? What extras does it offer?

[Gunni]

It´s not the big brother to anything.

compared to what?
Since I don´t know much about ms I can´t say,

VEMS is becoming less and less diy, while it still is diy.
MS is also becoming less and less diy, as there are people in the aftermarket that are supplying solutions,
so people don´t have to do it them selves, while almost all the other ones rely on in house r&d to solutions to customers, those people have spent alot of time learning and now want some $$ back.

In then end both will have a range of products that suit most, also the more expensive ones are becoming more and more complicated so the learning curve for noobs is steeper,

Also the hype to ms is going a bit down as people aren´t buying it as a diy anymore but ready solutions or having people install it for them,

I am one of those people, I have now developed a setup that allows anybody to install vems on their car
without messing about with internal ecu controls or such stuff, just a ecu, adapter harness, sensors and away you go.
I´m also developing the base map so people can buy the setup and drive off easily to the tuner of their preference.

People don´t realize that they are not going to be mapping cars for a living so they might just as well spend some more hours in their work and paying more for a quick solution.

If people just need mapping abilities then that is what they should be doing and not spend months fiddling with stuff they don´t know and will probably not understand fully and have a solution that is not what they wanted.
But if you absolutely must do it yourself then VEMS and MS are the main diy setups.

[hoshy]

Looking

Will be following this thread mate.

[Jhonno]

My bad, i thought VEMS was an evolution or something of M/S..

Looks interesting anyways

[Onz]

what extras does VEMS provide over MS?

[Gunni]

you can read on vems here.
http://www.vems.co.uk/vems.html

[hoshy]

Much broader feature set than the out of the box MS.

[Onz]

I dont see any real benefit unless you are going for transplants from other manufacturers or you want much higher tollerences than a road car needs. VEMS is brilliant but I think may be overkill on an M20 esp an engine without knock sensors. Not trying to be rude mate just my 2p worth. i cant get a straight answer out of anyone about benefits of VEMS and from what I have read and spoken to ppl about it seems like a great bit of kit IF its going on the right application.

[hoshy]

Well first of all not everybody has an m20

Looking at the features on VEMS vs. MS (given that they're similar price)

VEMS has on-board wideband controller, that's saved you 100 odd quid over MS and LC-1
Better quality connectors - not to be underestimated in the long run.

Those two alone are worth it. On top of that there's a pretty wide range of inputs and output with the associated circuitry. Including 2vr/hall inputs to make use of the out of the box 8 spark drivers, means you can go for non-wasted spark, sequential ignition.

Debatable point about also going for sequential injection but every little helps and it's a simpler option to do on VEMS than MS.

That's without considering the out of the box features of knock, egt, launch, anti-lag if you want to do that stuff.

Not much there that MS *can't* do - but given the similar cost, if you're not in to the other things that make MS so cool then it's a bloody good package - even as an option for the m20. I reckon for many it could win just on the wide band controller and "production" quality assembly/connectors.

Personally I'm happy with my MS though

[Gunni]

Funny. you must not be in the church of megasquirt ;)

Yes, the built in does make a difference, there are no ad on boards, there really is no add on anything,
you just buy it with whatever you need, wire it up and away you go,.

I don´t know much about ms, and I don´t need to know, the people at motec sure don´t care, or haltec or whatever.
it´s not all about the $$ when you buy engine management systems. if so motec could so easily make us a kit that would cost less then MS, with the 55pin connector wired exactly as m20´s need it and run batch injections and single coil, boost control and more and more,
the efi aftermarket is more complex than that. Motec probably sells 99% of their units through dealers, so do everybody else and so will MS and VEMS in the end, MS already is sold through dealers like diyautotune of whomever hardly anything is bought directly form the chaps at MS HQ.
Don´t think Ant would bother soldering up peoples boards, he´s got more important things to attend to, and it doesn´t save him anything in the long run either..

EFI manufacturers like dealers or educated sellers to do the installations so that their products don´t get a bad rap for being hard to install, being difficult in understanding and so on,
for anybody to think that the diy setups are even remotely capable of the average joe is silly.
They are not, they all require specific knowledge or a train of thought which grease monkeys do not have.

[hoshy]

Actually I really am a megasquirt fan. I'm running it "as we forumize"

I like the open source nature, the self-assembly, the learning curve, the whole package. Obviously you can buy ready made from dealers with looms and all the features you want pre-wired too - but that's another great thing about it, the choice. It's just a shame that with all that choice it's hard to really know where to start. Not sure I'd choose MS 100% for whatever my next projects will be but it would be near the top of the list.

I suppose really I was just commenting on the fact that as an out of the box package, assembled, for a similar cost VEMS probably wins on features but I was mainly commenting on v3 MS1 which is the slower cpu version and non surface mount. I think the v3.57 is part surface mount and with the MS2 faster cpu card brings the gap a lot closer to VEMS. The v3.57 has also got the extra connector provisioned on-board for sparks which helps a lot but still they're using the pretty crappy d-type sockets that imho are not really up to the job and make the whole thing a bit less professional than it could be.

Having said that, MS evolved from a cheap as chips fuel-only controller so I guess in time these things will be addresses also.

[Onz]

how do you get over the cold start issues?