E30 M3's

[topbananabm]

If you want a mint M3 your looking at £8 grand and nice convertable £12 grand onwards,
you can pick up tired saloon under £6 grand but you will end up spending loads of money.

best bet keep looking at many examples and get to see and compare then you know you will find the one you want.

Pat m3 is smart and well worth £17 grand mark considering one of interior and mad engine conversion. Shame people have to devalue cars due to few mods

[Rich_W]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/333822.htm

23K!!!

Worth it IMO.

I spot another M3 and an E12 too

Actually that's my area code

That car has never done 21k miles! At least double that!

Andrew

Interesting. Got any proof of that? Or is this another stupid comment?

[SK360]

A zoner's M3 on pistonhead's for 6.5k, not an original E30 colour, unless im mistaken?

Some people might even be able to vouch for this one as it's a zoner's car.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/292786.htm

[Card]

The car on Pistenhead at 23k is sold.

And it was genuine milage.

[rikster]

pat that m3 is lovely i would of thought you get more than 15000 for that

[evostormm]

Interesting seeing the prices in Germany and what's available (not a lot of choice for bone stock original cars anyway). Even amongst the cheapest at £8900 is an '87 with a damaged engine. Is it the case that M3s are now quite a bit cheaper over here than there? It doesn't look like you can pick up a minter over in Germany for £8,000 at the moment, at least not on mobile.de.

IMHO I think it also fair to say that unmodified original cars will almost always get the best prices as the cars are now entering into the classic/collector arena. Often anything modified, however well the work is done and whatever 'improvement' result, will be discounted by the classic buyer type whose raison d'être is originality.

[e30bmlover]

wow that schnitzer 2.5 m3 gave me chills

[Rich_W]

Interesting seeing the prices in Germany and what's available (not a lot of choice for bone stock original cars anyway). Even amongst the cheapest at £8900 is an '87 with a damaged engine. Is it the case that M3s are now quite a bit cheaper over here than there? It doesn't look like you can pick up a minter over in Germany for £8,000 at the moment, at least not on mobile.de.

IMHO I think it also fair to say that unmodified original cars will almost always get the best prices as the cars are now entering into the classic/collector arena. Often anything modified, however well the work is done and whatever 'improvement' result, will be discounted by the classic buyer type whose raison d'être is originality.

Ive been told that "Generally" the cars in Germany are pretty ropey now. Or are heavily modified. Different engines etc. The UK has more of a "keep in standard(ish)" mentality which means we tend to have people coming here to buy. IIRC Rags (some may not remember him) Convertible went to Spain.

[Demlotcrew]

Worth it IMO.

I spot another M3 and an E12 too

Actually that's my area code

That car has never done 21k miles! At least double that!

Andrew

Interesting. Got any proof of that? Or is this another stupid comment?

Yawn,

Do you have anything to verify its mileage? Do you know the history of the car?

[Andyboy]

The red Sport Evo belonged to a guy I know about 2 years ago - he currently has a black one with Schnitzer wheels seen at Gaydon. It's a minter with full BMW history, the mileage is real. It was imported about 10 years ago from Germany. Worth every bean of 23 grand if you want something straight and original.

[Demlotcrew]

Andy the condition of the interior says otherwise, whats not to say the car was not clocked before it was imported?

Look at how saggy the drivers foot well carpet is, show me a M3 with 21k on the clock with a carpet in that condition? Look at the gear knob then look at the steering wheel and the handbrake handle (I have SE parts also i know how fast they can wear, but still why not change the gear knob also?). Then look at how shiny the thy support is on the drivers seat and how matt the passengers is, that would not happen in 21k of use, also note the back part of the seat the leather is sagging, the leading edge of the bolster is worn, then the pedals are a dead give away. Then look at the steering column cowling and the head light aim is on its futhest setting (it would not be broke on a 21k car) then its had new tires, pete has original spare 16" wheels which have only done a few miles on them from cars sold 15-20 years ago still looking like new so why four new tyres at only 21k? (i can accept why someone would want to fit new tyres) The advert says full history, no mention of full BMW service history, you know yourself how easy it is to clock a car, and that car looks 40-50k of use not 21k. No pictures of the engine bay etc it just all looks too wrong for a 21k minter!

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Circumstantial at best.

[Demlotcrew]

Show me how its 'Circumstantial at best'?

The only way it can be 'incidental' is when the car has done more miles than shown.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

While the points you have raised are very pertinent and a good guide, they are still circumstatial. Without knowing how the car was used over the last x years; short trips, track days, by big heavy people, small delicate people, etc etc, you cannot be certain. Hence circumstantial.

[Demlotcrew]

Ok so tell me, from your own experience what type of use has the car had to show the signs of wear i have pointed out in the 21k miles of its life?

Obviously you need to back your reasoning up with examples in the way of data and pictures.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

I don't have to do anything Andrew. You have an amazing knowledge and experience of cars but the people skills of a agoraphobic smack head.

I'm not saying the signs of wear are not there, I'm saying how the wear got there is where the doubt arises. Your points are great indicators but not 100% infallable or guaranteed with every car. Unless you have an intimate knowledge on that cars life, your indications can raise doubts about the authenticity of the mileage but are by no means conclusive.

[UweM3]

Andy the condition of the interior says otherwise, whats not to say the car was not clocked before it was imported?

Look at how saggy the drivers foot well carpet is, show me a M3 with 21k on the clock with a carpet in that condition? Look at the gear knob then look at the steering wheel and the handbrake handle (I have SE parts also i know how fast they can wear, but still why not change the gear knob also?). Then look at how shiny the thy support is on the drivers seat and how matt the passengers is, that would not happen in 21k of use, also note the back part of the seat the leather is sagging, the leading edge of the bolster is worn, then the pedals are a dead give away. Then look at the steering column cowling and the head light aim is on its futhest setting (it would not be broke on a 21k car) then its had new tires, pete has original spare 16" wheels which have only done a few miles on them from cars sold 15-20 years ago still looking like new so why four new tyres at only 21k? (i can accept why someone would want to fit new tyres) The advert says full history, no mention of full BMW service history, you know yourself how easy it is to clock a car, and that car looks 40-50k of use not 21k. No pictures of the engine bay etc it just all looks too wrong for a 21k minter!

your list sounds like 121k to me, not even 50k miles will do that to an M3. But how can you tell from pictures, or have you seen the car in the flesh?
If you can't proof it, I would be quite IMO or the seller might want to have a word with you
In Germany cars do not pass MOT with "old tyres", they check the DOT number and regardless of condition of the thread, it fails.

[Card]

I know the car which was on Ebay for 23k ands it history the milage is genuine.

All i can say is the picture where done on not a very good camera and don't really show how tidy the car was.

It had been in a garage in a dust sheet for the last 5 years of it's life only covering about 500 miles.

[Demlotcrew]

your list sounds like 121k to me, not even 50k miles will do that to an M3. But how can you tell from pictures, or have you seen the car in the flesh?
If you can't proof it, I would be quite IMO or the seller might want to have a word with you
In Germany cars do not pass MOT with "old tyres", they check the DOT number and regardless of condition of the thread, it fails.

No ive not seen the car in the flesh, I dont need to! Im going by the pictures in the pistonheads advert. A picture is a picture Uwe, a saggy carpet in a picture will still look saggy in real life, the condition of the leather wont improve either, so dont give me that. Ive seen enough of these cars to notice the tele tales.

Why didnt the advert have a picture of the engine bay? Why was the car parked outside several bins? Who would use bins as the scenery for a sport evo?

Point taken on the tyres

[Demlotcrew]

I know the car which was on Ebay for 23k ands it history the milage is genuine.

All i can say is the picture where done on not a very good camera and don't really show how tidy the car was.

It had been in a garage in a dust sheet for the last 5 years of it's life only covering about 500 miles.

So the car was imported with 20500 kms on it and then kept in a garage where after it did 500 kms through out the five years of ownership?

That just adds to the suspicions of the car being clocked.

Im not saying its not worth the money! I think it is, and if i had the money i would pay that for this car. But i still think its done more miles than putting on.

Andrew

[Card]

I did not mean Ebay i meant Pistonheads.

I know the car very well and have driven it. I know there are not pictures of the engine bay but that is more to do with the person who was selling it not being good with computer. When he first advertised it there where no photos at all.
The engine bay is immaculate as is under the wheel arches.

[Card]

It is 21,000 miles not Kms and yes it has been in a garage and not used as the previous owner had another 60,000miles red M3 for everyday use so did not need to use it.

And he had a genuine resaon for selling it. He would have prefered to keep it truth be known.

[Demlotcrew]

I don't have to do anything Andrew. You have an amazing knowledge and experience of cars but the people skills of a agoraphobic smack head.

I'm not saying the signs of wear are not there, I'm saying how the wear got there is where the doubt arises. Your points are great indicators but not 100% infallable or guaranteed with every car. Unless you have an intimate knowledge on that cars life, your indications can raise doubts about the authenticity of the mileage but are by no means conclusive.

Maybe i do have the people skills of a agoraphobic smack head, but that doesnt change anything here.

"Circumstantial at best"

If you cant back yourself up with proof or even a concept then why even post? I would like to see who can view a car and be 100% infallible when making the educated guess of the condition and authenticity of the mileage etc. I would see how they are not conclusive when there are more than one visible signs of mileage being more than 21k, look at C76jons 40k car for reference.

Andrew

[Card]

As you have said

If you cannot back yourself up with proof.

What do you have which make the cars milage not genuine from pictures from a very low quality digital camera.

To be honest it is irrelevent as the car is sold and it was veiwed by a lot of people and specialised none of which questioned the milage.

[Card]

Sorry i was not contributing to this topic with this post!

[Rosc0PColtrane]

I don't have to do anything Andrew. You have an amazing knowledge and experience of cars but the people skills of a agoraphobic smack head.

I'm not saying the signs of wear are not there, I'm saying how the wear got there is where the doubt arises. Your points are great indicators but not 100% infallable or guaranteed with every car. Unless you have an intimate knowledge on that cars life, your indications can raise doubts about the authenticity of the mileage but are by no means conclusive.

Maybe i do have the people skills of a agoraphobic smack head, but that doesnt change anything here.

"Circumstantial at best"

If you cant back yourself up with proof or even a concept then why even post? I would like to see who can view a car and be 100% infallible when making the educated guess of the condition and authenticity of the mileage etc. I would see how they are not conclusive when there are more than one visible signs of mileage being more than 21k, look at C76jons 40k car for reference.

Andrew

FFS Andrew, chill out and wind your neck in! All I said was that while your observations are pertinent, they are not infallable, making them circumstantial at best.

I don't need proof, I'm offering an alternative opinion; the fact that people are different and will have differing impacts on their environment. In this case on the wear and tear of a car.

As for concepts, how would you propose I illustrate the differences between people? That being my original point, or did you miss that as the red mist descended?

I'm not offering a definitive opposing opinion to yours, mearly an alternative. I accept what you are saying, I have already pointed out I acknowledge your encyclopaedic understanding or cars but have chosen not to take your observation at face value. This is the last time I'm going to say that, so I hope at about the third time of asking, it's clear to you.

No one can be 100% infallable, that was my point. There is no right and wrong, Just means that can provide us with a best guess. This car can show such signs of wear and tear and still be legitimate.

[UweM3]

your list sounds like 121k to me, not even 50k miles will do that to an M3. But how can you tell from pictures, or have you seen the car in the flesh?
If you can't proof it, I would be quite IMO or the seller might want to have a word with you
In Germany cars do not pass MOT with "old tyres", they check the DOT number and regardless of condition of the thread, it fails.

No ive not seen the car in the flesh, I dont need to! Im going by the pictures in the pistonheads advert. A picture is a picture Uwe, a saggy carpet in a picture will still look saggy in real life, the condition of the leather wont improve either, so dont give me that. Ive seen enough of these cars to notice the tele tales.

Why didnt the advert have a picture of the engine bay? Why was the car parked outside several bins? Who would use bins as the scenery for a sport evo?

Point taken on the tyres

So why do you get so wound up by this? Was it offered to you?
Did you want to buy and felt betrayed? As long you don't have 100% proof of what you are saying, it can be argued to death.

I fully agree that a car with 21k miles should look like new, but you never know who owned it in the first place. Some people just have more sense than money and just don't care.

And whatever people choose as background doesn't really make a difference to me. Or would you rather buy a lemon pictured on a perfect scene? Focus on the car, not on dust bins. But I know, you have seen it all and so many times

[Demlotcrew]

Im not getting wound up. Have you ever seen me wound up?

I didnt 'want to buy', its well out of my means. And yes i dont have 100% proof that the car has genuine indicated 21k mls, but i cant ignore the obvious signs which has put doubt over the actual mileage of the car. (and others have also agreed on the signs of wear)

RichW came out with this;

Interesting. Got any proof of that? Or is this another stupid comment?

So i listed reasons as to why i came to the conclusion of, the car has done more than the indicated mileage. Then we get the much needed input of "Circumstantial at best" from our resident "high frequency poster" Rosc0PColtrane, which was only made to 'fuel the fire' and was in no way a contribution to the thread as there was no backup to this, just thrown in for good measure.

The car sold for good money, and i wish all the best to the new owner

[UweM3]

Im not getting wound up. Have you ever seen me wound up?

yes I have....

I havent' made any stupid comment, haven't I?

Just don't like to be be a target for your anger not caused by me (at least this time ) i.e. "don't give me that..."

[Ian_M]

Im not getting wound up. Have you ever seen me wound up?

I didnt 'want to buy', its well out of my means. And yes i dont have 100% proof that the car has genuine indicated 21k mls, but i cant ignore the obvious signs which has put doubt over the actual mileage of the car. (and others have also agreed on the signs of wear)

RichW came out with this;

Interesting. Got any proof of that? Or is this another stupid comment?

So i listed reasons as to why i came to the conclusion of, the car has done more than the indicated mileage. Then we get the much needed input of "Circumstantial at best" from our resident "high frequency poster" Rosc0PColtrane, which was only made to 'fuel the fire' and was in no way a contribution to the thread as there was no backup to this, just thrown in for good measure.

The car sold for good money, and i wish all the best to the new owner

His point was very much on topic and a contribution to the thread (in my opinion), you don't know who has been in and out of the car.

Imagine it was driven 5 miles everytime before someone got out of it? That wear and tear is possible.

You don't have to know anything about cars to know simple science.

I see what you're saying but I also see what he is saying.

You're asking for proof whereas you've just picked apart images which to me isn't proof of anything other then the fact that it's had frequent use, regardless of how far it's gone!

But as I said, I see you're point and it does seem strange but doesn't mean it's not right.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Im not getting wound up. Have you ever seen me wound up?

I didnt 'want to buy', its well out of my means. And yes i dont have 100% proof that the car has genuine indicated 21k mls, but i cant ignore the obvious signs which has put doubt over the actual mileage of the car. (and others have also agreed on the signs of wear)

RichW came out with this;

Interesting. Got any proof of that? Or is this another stupid comment?

So i listed reasons as to why i came to the conclusion of, the car has done more than the indicated mileage. Then we get the much needed input of "Circumstantial at best" from our resident "high frequency poster" Rosc0PColtrane, which was only made to 'fuel the fire' and was in no way a contribution to the thread as there was no backup to this, just thrown in for good measure.

The car sold for good money, and i wish all the best to the new owner

His point was very much on topic and a contribution to the thread (in my opinion), you don't know who has been in and out of the car.

Imagine it was driven 5 miles everytime before someone got out of it? That wear and tear is possible.

You don't have to know anything about cars to know simple science.

I see what you're saying but I also see what he is saying.

You're asking for proof whereas you've just picked apart images which to me isn't proof of anything other then the fact that it's had frequent use, regardless of how far it's gone!

But as I said, I see you're point and it does seem strange but doesn't mean it's not right.

Thanks dude.

Sadly some people cannot see the wood for the trees....