Jai's S50B32 swap thread... MOT Passed!!!!!!

[ian332isport]

i'll have to go it one of those enging lift things that sit between the wings.

If Dan's ever passing my place, I have one you can borrow. It's really the only option for removing the sump with the engine in the car.

Ian.

[UweM3]

my DIY one. Sits on the frame rails.

[jaistanley]

Right, well panic over. The engine now runs without the sound of gunfire from beneath! It was the sump windage tray. The conrod bolt on 5 was just tapping it ever so slightly.

So:

IT RUNS!!!



I can be happy now I know the engine isn't shot to sh!t somehow! It runs absolutely fantastically. Idle is solid as a rock, with or without the plenum on and maf plugged in. Revs up extremely well with the JBR flywheel. Good news is that with only the centre box as pictured earlier it's not too loud. With the rest of the system on there it should sound awesome!

I'll post up some pictures/vids tomorrow.

Jai

[penton08]

legend!!!!

[GeoffBob]

Brilliant Jai, Well done. 'Look forward to the pics.

[buster]

nice write up Jai, its good to see you've stuck at it .
Now will James ever finish his ? worlds longest s50 swap !

[UweM3]

buster don't want to be a PIA but didn't you want to mail me some diagrams? (...please)

[ian332isport]

buster don't want to be a PIA but didn't you want to mail me some diagrams? (...please)

Assuming these are wiring diagrams, I can help

[UweM3]

buster don't want to be a PIA but didn't you want to mail me some diagrams? (...please)

Assuming these are wiring diagrams, I can help

yeas you are right

[buster]

Ian's the man for these.I actually got mine from Ian.And they were originally wrote i think for the m3.
I can still copy these for you if you want them Uwe.

[jaistanley]

Progress, glorious progress...

Can't post any piccies till I get home (no imageshack on my work laptop!) but 'some' progress was again made this weekend. I now have two pedals ni the car that do something.. Dan and I shortened the throttle cable and fitted it so you can now start the car and rev it up like you're five years old. It's cool. So there.

We bled the clutch also.. It's not too light, not too heavy. Trouble is that with the engine running and the clutch pedal fully depressed something is contacting in the bell housing. The clutch works perfectly till about 3/4 of the way through it's travel the you can feel the contact through the hydraulics and hear it over the engine noise. VERY annoying!

I can only really think of it being two things: The clutch slave cylinder plunger not being seated correctly on the release fork and therefore pushing it too far; or the clutch release bearing not being inserted into the fork/arm properly and therefore puching the springs too far and they hit the clutch plate.

Can anyone think of what I have done wrong during assembly? (this sort of thing doesn;t normally happen to me! I usually spend ages getting it right first time and it usually pays off!!!).

If it is the slave cylinder I can remove it and re-insert it in the hope it will sit properly in the fork. If not it's going to have to be a gearbox off job! That I DONT want. It's just such a royal pain in the arse!

I mounted the Supersprint backbox. The hangers I made look a bit gash, but that's because I welded to cut up BMW stock mounts in the hope of keeping the shell STD. Now I'm thinking about re-doing it all again and making brackets that I bolt through the floor of the car. That way I can totally constrain the box myself. Not sure. Pictures speak a thousand words so I shall post some. The other problem is that the pre-bent pipes I bought in sections don't go to shallow enough an angle to line up perfectly and I'll therefore have to get some made (not a MASSIVE problem, I work in a factory that makes all of Lotus, Aston, Land rover, Cooper and Bently stainless exhausts! I just dont really want to be seen loading three foot expensive looking pipes into my car!!)

Still.. It's not too far from being road-worthy now.

[GeoffBob]

Can anyone think of what I have done wrong during assembly? (this sort of thing doesn;t normally happen to me! I usually spend ages getting it right first time and it usually pays off!!!).

Jai, have you changed the diameter of either the slave or master cylinder? A fat master cylinder can easily displace enough fluid (for a short amount of pedal travel) to cause a narrow slave cylinder to fold the spring fingers all the way back. Not good!! For reference, aftermarket pedal sets include an adjuster on the clutch pedal (an adjustable stopper) to control the clutch pedal travel in order to eradicate this problem (since the guy that makes the pedals has no idea what size slave and master cylinder combination you are going to use).

At a rough guess you may just have this problem (if you have mixed and matched cylinder sizes). Climb down underneath and see how much the slave is pushing the fork when the pedal is fully depressed. You may just need to put a stopper or similar under your pedal to limit it's travel.

Hope that's all it is!

Geoff

[jaistanley]

Well, thats the first thing I thought about but the master cylinder (as far as I know) is just a std E30 one. We had the exact same setup on Dan's car earlier this year and it was fine! In fact Dan has the 20mm slave and I have the 22mm so mine should be easier to press and travel less distance.

[jmc330i]

Nice one Jai Keep at it, its worth it in the end

Now will James ever finish his ? worlds longest s50 swap !

Not had much time lately mate - Ive moved twice in the last 6 months
Still, the car is all done except for the paint, but I can live with a fast pink car

I will update my threads when Ive sorted through the pics and got regular internet again.

[GeoffBob]

Jai, sorry, this may be a dumb question: Are you running the exact same engine, clutch and gearbox as Dan? In other words, are the two exactly comparable? I'm thinking specifically, what's the leverage of your clutch fork compared to Dans? Same length fork, same pivot point etc. Any chance you screwed in/out the little pivot point/"ball-on-a-bolt" that the fork rides on, on your box (if it has one of these and isn't just part of the casting)?

Sorry if if you have thought of all of this already. I'm just trying to come up with reasons for you not to have to pull the whole engine out, but if your luck is anything like mine...

[march109]

Nice one Jai Keep at it, its worth it in the end

Now will James ever finish his ? worlds longest s50 swap !

Not had much time lately mate - Ive moved twice in the last 6 months
Still, the car is all done except for the paint, but I can live with a fast pink car

I will update my threads when Ive sorted through the pics and got regular internet again.

Just keep telling people its only pink in certain light - like daylight.

[Jhonno]

Jai, sorry, this may be a dumb question: Are you running the exact same engine, clutch and gearbox as Dan? In other words, are the two exactly comparable? I'm thinking specifically, what's the leverage of your clutch fork compared to Dans? Same length fork, same pivot point etc. Any chance you screwed in/out the little pivot point/"ball-on-a-bolt" that the fork rides on, on your box (if it has one of these and isn't just part of the casting)?

Sorry if if you have thought of all of this already. I'm just trying to come up with reasons for you not to have to pull the whole engine out, but if your luck is anything like mine...

This thought process is already being worked through..

His box/clutch/flywheel are exactly the same as when I was running the setup in my car.. The only difference is the slave! Which in theory should be displaced less for a given travel on the pedal due to the larger bore.. Therefore I am convinced it is the blooming slave not seated correctly (I dunno.. Leave him to do a simple job..)

[jaistanley]

I'm running an S50B32 engine, with the gearbox from the same car (that's the 5 speed that is common to the E36 3.0 M3 and the E36 328i). I have a JBR aluminium flywheel with an M5 sprung clutch plate and an S50B30 pressure plate.

Dan previously ran an M50B25 with the same gearbox as me, and the exact same flywheel/clutch combination. On this he had an E30 clutch master cylinder with a 20mm slave cylinder (I have the 22 - well it has 22 written on the side and I assume that's what it means!).

He now has an S50B30 with the same gearbox but a TTV flywheel with M3 pressure plate and custom Helix clutch.

I definately haven't adjusted the release fork within the gearbox since it was taken from the ZM but I have changed the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, release bearing and am now running the E30 master cylinder and a braided flexible hose.

can anyone suggest a plan of action that doesn't involve petrol and a match?

[Jhonno]

can anyone suggest a plan of action that doesn't involve petrol and a match?

I have one.. Though it requires you to stop being such a drama queen, so might not work. It is pretty simple though. We re-seat the slave...

[ian332isport]

We re-seat the slave...

...and bind the Gimp

[Jhonno]

We re-seat the slave...

...and bind the Gimp

Shhhh! Don't wake him..

[jaistanley]

Stupid JBR flywheel clutch combo!!!

Spent ages throwing toys out of the pram today.. Fitted a new 20.64mm 328i clutch slave cylinder and the clutch still fouled on the lower part of the stroke. In a last ditch effort to find out what was going on before we removed the gearbox Dan and I checked the JBR website and in small(ish) print it said: Note all racing flywheels REQUIRE a clutch pedal stop to prevent damage due to over extension.

AAAAHHH!!!

It was easy to fit a clutch stop. BMW kindly fitted the pedal box with provision for one, I simply put a bolt with a ut either side of the plate on the pedal box. I'll post a pic tomorrow.

I'm trying to get the exhaust pikey'd up and the car ready for an MOT this week. The golf is getting on my tits and I wont be able to get any time off for a while.

Wish me luck!

[penton08]

come on jai! chop,chop. the exhaust should take no time! mines been done a while now, with over 1000 miles under its belt. book the mot!!!! i wanna see it at the next meet. ok!!

[GeoffBob]

Glad to hear you came right Jai. Live and learn eh?

[jaistanley]

Ladies and Gentlemen...

I HAVE DRIVEN THE SODDING THING!!!

OK, so only enough to go up and down the lane, leaving a nice cheeky set of 11's outside my drive. I'm absolutely stoked.

Having real trouble with the ABS.. Need to wire the E36 sensors to the E30, so had the bright idea of cutting off the E30 plugs and fitting E36 ones so I can always get replacement std E36 sensors in the future. Fine, till you realise the E30 wiring is just two red wires.. Which wire to which pin of the E36 plug!!!?!?!

Also, my abs has never worked, the light just comes on and stays on.

Plus I'm having a nightmare bleeding all of the air out of the system. I have fitted a brand new audi master cylinder (£160!!! OUCH, my ring hurts!) but the pedal is still a little soft and the brakes quite grabby. They aren't bedded in yet to be fair though.

There are still a few little jobs to do to be fair, but projet cars aren't actually ever meant to get finished are they??

I have to fit the washer jets and the badge to the bonnet, re-fit loads of trim, re-bleed the brakes and clutch, fit the plug for the oil level sensor, buy an air filter, change the oil and the plugs, give it the wash of it's life, touch up a few spots of crusty crap that have appeared after two years of sitting on sand and stones, adjust the alignment front and rear, wire in the head unit, stuff like that. It's basically MOT able now though!!!!

YES!

Loads of thanks to Dan for his help thus far.

Pics and maybe a vid or two to follow. The exhaust sounds absolutely amazing.

[jmc330i]

Ladies and Gentlemen...

I HAVE DRIVEN THE SODDING THING!!!

OK, so only enough to go up and down the lane, leaving a nice cheeky set of 11's outside my drive. I'm absolutely stoked.

Nice one mate, its an amazing feeling isnt it
I did the same when mine was first driveable, had to explain the 11's as 'just testing the new diff'
Believe me, the feeling gets even better when you drive away from the MOT station

Plus I'm having a nightmare bleeding all of the air out of the system. I have fitted a brand new audi master cylinder (£160!!! OUCH, my ring hurts!) but the pedal is still a little soft and the brakes quite grabby. They aren't bedded in yet to be fair though.

I had real problems bleeding mine through as well. Someone on here suggested driving the car and getting the ABS to cut in a few times, then go and re-bleed the brakes again. This is what I did on mine and it seems to have worked (although getting the ABS to cut in with a spongy brake pedal wasnt easy - I ended up on grass to get the wheels to lock).

There are still a few little jobs to do to be fair, but projet cars aren't actually ever meant to get finished are they??

Mines still got all the little jobs to do, even after a month or two on the road, its just so much fun to drive I never get round to doing them - its still pink and I dont care

[penton08]

same here, the 11s are still visable now! 6 weeks on!!! nice work jai. my brakes also need work they pulled 400kgs on the mot rollers, but cant stop the car from speed more than once. there next on my list of things to do.

[jaistanley]

I just bought a load of male, female and t piece brake line connectors. I'm going to remove the abs pump and lightbulb from the dash, and fit hydraulic lines in its place leaving it so I can swap it back in when I have time to bleed it through etc. In the long run I want to fit the ABS as it might prove useful! Right now I'm more interested in getting it MOT ready so I can iron out the bugs on the road.

Also bought a load of wash, wax and stuff like that so Dan and I can get some photos tomorrow. I'll post them up when they're done.

I need to get an air filter for it.. It has to have a neck diameter but be reasonably small so it can fit in the space above the ABS unit and past the header tank and radiator. What have you guys used??

Jai

[appletree]

Cant wait to see some pics of the work thats gone on since the last update.

As for the air filter ones ive seen in mags and on the net offten seem to have "green cotton" ones on they tend to be long and thin with an neck diametre almost the same as the dia of the hole filter.

something like this but bigger?
http://www.carperformanceuk.co.uk/golf- ... 30422.html

or was you thinking more like this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T216-Performance- ... 286.c0.m14

[jmc330i]

The one in the second link is like what Ive used. Cost £20 from a local motor factors and it is only temporary. I just needed something for the MOT and its doing the job for the moment.

Its a bit of a tight fit with the ABS pump, header tank and rad, but its in there. I made up a heat shield to go round it, so it does resonate a bit - it sounds alright really

[penton08]

try here mate, www.filterpower.co.uk go to the clamp on section, loads to chose from in there!! fair prices too!!

[kerrie]

Great work Jai,
Was hoping to pop round and see her Go!! but family stayed too long!
I have removed a K&N cone from my sport today and if you like, I can donate it to your project?
Send me a Pm if you need it.
Exhaust tone was lovely
Found the knocking on the Touring was loose diff bolts!!Sorted now.
Ian

[jaistanley]

Little update:

The ABS issue (well the light not coming on anyway) was fixed with a little help from Ian Haynes (again!! - Massive thanks Ian). He pointed me in the direction of the ABS relay. Although it was physically switching, there is a tiny little fuse wire in there that had blown. For now I have simply sodlered a piece of PCB copper wire in its place till I can get a new relay. That has got the ABS light going off with the engine running again, one less thing to worry about for now. I still need to wire up the E36 sensors (another kettle of fish!) to have working ABS.

I need to get hold of Dameon as he bled his ABS by cleverly activating the solenoids in the pump whilst bleeding. That'll allow me decent brakes so I can bed in my disks and pads and get the pedal nice and hard.. Oooer.

Dan and I spent the weekend fiddling through tthe small jobs and (IMO) it's now ready for the MOT.

I spent nearly 5 hours washing the thing on Sunday and didn't even get it polished! It took so long to go round all of the shuts cleaning out the green gunge that had grown that I didn't get a chance. I'll give it a damn good polish and wax now it's clean enough. We did take some pictures of the two cars together so I'll get them up soon. Take a look at these for now...

http://www.e3024v.com/board/index.php?topic=715.0

Thinking I might go back to a chrome grill as the front end is very black.. Will be even more so when I fit the smoked headlights!

Ian: Good to see you the other day. The exhaust sounds a little better now I have sealed the joints and got it all bolted up properly. So far I'm in love with the sound it makes. Keep just starting it to hear it burble then wail when I rev it! We shall see what it actually sounds like on the road... It might be a little loud, or just right. Thank you for the offer of the K&N.. I suspect it'll be a little small; the S50 has a 90mm MAF so requires quite a large filter.

We tried Dans K&N filter on there and it fitted in the space quite well so he's going to text me the part number so I can get one ordered before Friday (MOT day I hope!).

Got to order a few more odds and sods from the stealers.. Things like cluch reservoir caps and things like that. All the fun stuff, lol.

Regards.

Jai

[jaistanley]

OK so I'm bored at work and I've just written a draft of the tech specs of the car.. I think I know why it's taken so bloody long and cost so bloody much now. This ladies and gents is why when people tell me they can do an S50 conversion at hone for less than 6k I whince.. Mines cost me about that (including the car and donor car) and I do most stuff myself:

Engine:

S50B32 from a 1998 ZMRoadster. Engine replaced circa 2002 with new replacement so definitely <48000 miles. Inside all is BRAND NEW so estimating 10k miles.
Oil pump and pick up (new) from M50B25 525i
525i Sump
All emissions pump and vacuum system removed, aircon deleted and relevant wiring.
EWS system retained.
All wiring modified/thinned to fit into E30M3 wiring covers in engine bay.
Factory look to install.
Modified throttle cable (approx 2”a shortened).
ARP con-rod bolts.
E36 M3 engine mounts fitted with E28 M5 rubbers.
JBRacing aluminium flywheel.
Engine and EWS diagnostics wired in to work as per factory.
Mocal oil cooler mounted behind kidneys.

Fuelling:

E36 M3 Evo fuel pump fitted to modified E30 fuel pump cage.
FSE in-tank fuel filter sock.
325i fuel filter and plumbing.

Cooling:

E36 M3 Evo radiator.
E36 M3 top hose (cut a little)
Half M20, half M50 lower hose with joiner.
E30 header tank with pre-facelift hose joined to a new section of coolant hose to rear of head.
14”a fan using BMW air-con wiring schematics, wired into std thermo switch and relay/fuse position.
2 bar header tank cap.
E30 check panel level sender retained.

Exhaust:

BTB modified manifold, heat wrapped with original heat-shield modified to also fit.
BTB custom X pipe butt welded to Simons (Jetex) 304 stainles 2 * 2”a centre box, heat wrapped to centre box.
2*2”a stainless tubes to Supersprint Race E30M3 backbox modified to fit std E30 hangers.

Transmission:

5 Speed manual from ZMRoadster.
E36 325i (M50) gear linkage with all new bushings.
ZMRoadster Gearshifter for (very) short-shift.
E36 328i manual propshaft (fitted with E30 centre bearing)
ZMRoadster 3.15 LSD and driveshafts
ZM diff bush in E30 diff backing plate (my ZM plate got damaged).
M5 sprung clutch plate.
E36 M3 pressure plate.
E30 clutch master cylinder.
E36 328i 20.64mm clutch slave cylinder.
Clutch fitted with stop to prevent contact with flywheel (!!)
Custom made (by myself) braided clutch hydraulic line (std E36 one restricts flow for smooth up-take).

Wheels:

BBS split rims from E36 328i sport: two sets of front (7.5j) (also have a set of 7.5j and 8.5j’s to play with).
Offset ET41 all round (std E36 offset).
Toyo Proxes T1-R 215/40/17’s
Sit perfectly in the arches..

Suspension:

Front:
E36 M3 Bilstein B6 dampers
E30 325i H&R sport ”“35mm springs
Uwe Camber adjustable topmount rings.
E30 Rubber topmounts.
E36 M3 Evo lower wishbones.
E36 M3 Evo hubs.
E30 eccentric (M3) poly urethane TCA bushes.
E36 M3 ARB droplinks
E30 325i ARB’s

Rear:
ZMRoadster/Mcoupe radius arms.
E30 Bilstein B8 dampers
H&R Sport ”“35mm springs
E46 M3 Cabriolet topmounts
New BMW rubber bushes throughout.
E30 325i ARB.
Modified subframe with independent camber and toe adjusters.
ZMRoadster ARB droplinks (tight fit when suspension at full droop!)

Steering:

ZM steering rack (same as E36 Coupe).
Custom power steering pipes (courtesy of Ian Haynes)
Custom steering rack to column joint (probably to be revised)
E36 power steering return pipe.
E36 tie rods and track rod ends.

Brakes:

Servo re-located 53mm nearer to nearside.
Golf MK2 1.3 servo.
Audi Coupe 2.3 20v Turbo Quattro master cylinder (25mm)
New hard-lines where required.
ABS retained utilising E36 senders front and rear spliced into E30 system (still a work in progress).
E34 brake tie-bar modified when re-locating brake servo.
E30 handbrake cables.
Golf MK2 fluid reservoir with modified E30 cap to allow for different height of warning level.
ATE Super blue dot 4 racing fluid.

Front:
E36 M3 Evo/ZM 315mm by 28mm 2 piece braking setup.
Performance friction road/track compound pads.
Goodridge E30 hoses.

Rear:
ZM/E36 M3 312mm by 20mm vented disks and callipers.
Performance Friction road/track compound pads.
Custom braided brake lines following handbrake cables from chassis, banjo bolts at calliper end.


Basically the car is a re-shelled MCoupe. The performace should be on a par, if not better (as long as the 215 tyres can get the power down) than the donor car in every aspect. Yey.

[Jon_Bmw]

Well done Jai unit.

Top marks to Dan for helping out as well. Where has he been recently, I still owe him a tenner.

The perfect shakedown:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 74&start=0

?

Would be good to see a couple of s50s there...