Federal RSR tyres splitting/delaminating

Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:46 pm

Hi guys,

I run an E30 track car, weighing 1100kg.
It has the standard 15inch BBS wheels, fitted with 195/50/15 Federal RSR tyres. I’ve had them on for about 8 months/2000 miles and a crack has appeared in each tyre, running from inner to outer side wall.

I contacted the (reputable) company that I bought the tyres from and I’m being told that, I need to remove them immediately.
Apparently the reason they have cracked is because the tyre is incorrect for my car in terms of size and load rating.
Also they reckon I've not taken them through a proper heat cycle.

I think this is b****cks, but I’m happy to be proved wrong. Anyone had this happen to them?
What track tyres do you run?

Cheers, Rob.

Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:37 pm

iirc this is a fairly common issue with the Federals, there are a couple of threads on Pistonheads about it. Worth doing a search on there

Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:15 pm

I'm seeing a lot of tyres with cracks in. Dunlop seem to be the worse.

I believe you should get a 12month warranty on tyre defects.

Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:09 pm

I haven't heard of a road tyre that needs to be taken through a heat cycle before.

Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:45 am

I've not heard of a road tyre needing a heat cycle either.
I don't really mind that they have a crack in them, I just wanted assurance from my tyre supplier that there'd be no issues but they've just basically told me that they've spit because the tyre's not designed for my car and I've not heat cycled them.

The tyre's do have a warranty but the suggestion is that I've voided it based on the above.

Do most of you guys run medium compound R888?

Just tell me to shut up and point me in the direction of a tyre thread if you like!

Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:50 pm

I used the rsr, no cracks but the inner edge has delamed. I had them
Turned around due to camber wear but never noticed it. After a track day I noticed it on the outside.

I'm using Nankang ns2r in soft. Used at 2 events one being silverstone at trax and I rate them over the rsr, I changed due to the delam and they are poor in the wet

I usually do a burnout on the rears to put a cycle through them to limit tyre delam, they may want you to scrub them with a couple of hard laps and let them cool down

I'm no expert tho

Post Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:55 am

Nankang NS2-Rs £69.99 each in 205/45/16 from Camskill

That's what I'm planning to go for once I've burned through the cheapy Champiro UHP1 road tyres.

Post Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:52 pm

I had Nankangs on an E46 325i a couple of years ago and they were really good, but that was a 255 section on the rear so had loads of grip. My track car has more power than the E46 and is only a 195 section, so I want something pretty sticky.
I am really tempted to try the ns2r based on price.

Post Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:50 pm

RSR's are complete rubbish throw them in the bin.

Post Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:55 pm

They're on their way! What do you have?

Post Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:33 am

I run Khumos, Dunlop and Michelin. I really rate Khumo V70's though, probably best R tyre on the market right now.

Post Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:55 am

Cheers mate, I'll look at getting a set of those.
After a quick search it looks like Demon Tweeks is the cheapest place to buy them.

Post Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:59 am

Is medium compound the way to go on these?
Bearing in mind I'd like to get a good few track days and maybe a couple of thousand road miles out of them.

Post Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:06 am

Go for the hard, the only downside is that they need quite a few laps to get working, but once going they are fantastic.

Post Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:49 am

That's good, it usually takes me a few laps to get going too!
Thanks mate.

Post Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:02 pm

Why do you think RSRs are scrap Andrew??

Post Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:16 pm

They offer marginal grip over a road tyre, just all show and no go sadly.

Post Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:41 pm

Interesting you say that as I've heard views both good and bad from Subaru and Mazda MX5 racers. Having been out in a racing Mazda with them fitted, I thought their performance was pretty close to an R888, certainly in the dry.

I've bought a set for my new build (as 215/40R17 sizes are limited to that and Yokohamas) so will be interested to see how they measure up, good or bad...

Post Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:03 pm

You need to get some data logging on the car, its the only way to know for sure whats going on. Otherwise its just guesswork.

Post Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:21 pm

I did think they were pretty good on track and others commented on how well my car turns in at speed but my experience is limited.
My test will be to go to Curborough sprint circuit. I know how exactly how quickly I can get round there on the Federals, in theory the Khumo V70 will make me quicker (hopefully).

Post Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:27 pm

Hmmm, the hard compound is really not that well suited for sprint circuits. High performance tyres need to be 'bed in' on every track, it takes time and you must get them up to temperature (optimal 70ºC), I don't think you will be able to do that?

Of course if you have tyre heaters then you will be ok.

Post Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:47 pm

No tyre heater's I'm afraid.
I'll perhaps go for the medium compound as I do just as many sprints as I do track days.

Post Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:12 pm

Yes I would say you must go for a softer compound.

These are mines after a good session.

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:22 pm

Demlotcrew wrote:You need to get some data logging on the car, its the only way to know for sure whats going on. Otherwise its just guesswork.

Having worked trackside in F1, you have some merit in stating that - however, for a track day (or race) car where subjective feel is a major (and sometimes overarching) factor in terms of driver confidence, what you say is frankly a load of bollocks. Road tyres are developed using subjective feel as a major sign off parameter as well.

You'll be working for McLaren before you know it, bestowing the virtues of marginal gains...!

I'll continue pursuing the fun for now, not the numbers...

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:33 pm

In so many cases 'engineers/managers' use data to accelerate change where drivers use too much feeling and get no where.

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:55 pm

Depends on the driver...!

I guess I was lucky working with some of the best...

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:11 pm

Well you have your way of building a car, I have mines.

If I told you that a driver I worked with was convinced that RSR's were the best. We ran his E46 M3 fitted with new RSR's round the ring. Then fitted some new Khumo KU39's and despite a lot more tyre squeal the car was on average 7s faster!!!! Would you be able to 'feel' 7 seconds?

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:24 pm

7 seconds faster round the ring?

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:30 pm

Andrew - I hear you. My point is that for us lot messing around with cars, just chasing the numbers is of limited value - data is always king for sure, I'm not disputing that. However, confidence to push on is a mighty factor as well.

I think my new car will 'feel' awesome! I really don't care if it's not the quickest - If I was chasing numbers, I'd be building something very different - each to their own!!

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:35 pm

Rob175kks wrote:7 seconds faster round the ring?

The KU39 is classed as a mid range road tyre.......

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:30 pm

What pressures do you guys generally run in the wet and dry?

Post Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:36 pm

29 wet, 25 dry. Same all round. But I don't really know what I'm doin. I'll be interested to hear from others.

Post Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:32 am

I'm running 22psi on ns2r in dry not used them in the wet

Used to run the rsr 28psi hot 22-5psi in the wet

Post Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:49 pm

I've not seen/used this site before, but check out the price on these!
http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-details/to ... g#95781760

Post Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:38 am

^^

It's a great site - I got my last set of Contis and Michelins from there for other cars... I think I got the Federals for my current track build from there too.

Great service too!