M20 6 branch onto M50?

[eko]

Starting yet another M50 conversion this weekend.
The car in question currently has a stainless 6 branch fitted.
Would it be possible to slice the M20 flange off and mate it upto M52 flange?
Anyone done it or even attempted it?

[OBs]

Get much done today Squire

[Jhonno]

Are the ports not very different?

[benjy]

The M20 and M50 engines share the same 91mm bore center distances........It should go as an M50/52 crank fits an M20 block....

[Taylor325i]

Are the ports not very different?

That's what I thought - oval M50 ports and round M20 ports.




Taylor.

[stonesie]

With a bit of pipe flattening it should work, looking at pics of the gaskets for a M20 and M50, you would have to shorten the pipes anyway because of the broader head.

[hennared323i]

I have a reverse rear flanged hotuning 6 branch that is ripe for playing with - postage to south Devon is simply a 12 pack of Kronenburg assuming you are not to far off the beaten track to Cornwall.

A bit of grinding and some stainless welding should provide fruition

I am open to offers

[benjy]

Whereabouts are you hennared??

[eko]

The M20 and M50 engines share the same 91mm bore center distances........It should go as an M50/52 crank fits an M20 block....

With this in mind then it shouldnt really be that difficult.
Will be giving it a go anyway so time will tell

[Turbo-Brown]

How about getting hold of a scrap pair of S50 manifolds, machining the pipes out of the beautiful investment cast collectors they have, and then welding the branches of your manifold in.

Saves flattening pipes and the associated reduction in area, and also gives you an easy bolt on solution.....ish

[Omi]

Interesting point, when BTB were charging the thick end of 2 bags for a modified S50 arrangement. - Are the improvements in flow and power so significant over those from a nicely adapted £250 HotTuning manifold and the existing flanges?

£50 for a 2nd-hand set of M52 manifolds, £250 for a HotTuning item... If you can use a welder and do it yourself, this seems a really easy solution already shaped to clear the steering coupling and mate up to an E30 system.

In fact, would be piece of pish for HotTuning to knock these up in-house once they knew where to cut and could machine the flanges themselves to get a nice flowing port. - Easy to weld bosses for lambdas in too.

Why didn't I think of this at the time?

[eko]

HennaRed,thanks for the offer but as said there is already a 6 branch on the car
Benjy has already enquired at one local engineering place about have some M50 flanges laser cut,price was pretty reasonable but ill be calling a `friend of a friend` tomorrow to see what he quotes.
Ill get some pics of the progress along the way,hopefully next week sometime.

[hennared323i]

Whereabouts are you hennared??

c
Currently East London though I do have the ability to send things South West at reasonable prices - as stated above

[daimlerman]

Please keep us posted on this,I am stuck for an exhaust manifold for my M50 conversion.How about a group buy for the flanges? My Hottuning manifold on the 2.7 is most satisfactory and has a mounting boss for one lambda thingy on the crossover section.

[eko]

Got some flanges being made up.Should be ready in the next couple of days.
Only mild steel though unfortunately as the place that is doing them dont stock or use stainless.
Flange will be 12mm thick as opposed to the 14mm thickness on the standard M50 cast manifold.

[DanThe]

I would buy a set of these flanges! Are they matched to the exhaust ports? Converting a hottuning manifold sounds like a VERY good plan, much less hassle than modding an M52 or S50 manifold.

Do the hottuning manifolds give clearance for an E36/46 rack?

[Jon_Bmw]

I think the BTB ones were designed to clear.

The hot tuning ones seem to be a fairly good copy... See where I am going. I wonder if anyone has tried?

[Jhonno]

BTB M20 'snake' manfolds wont clear e36 steering racks..

Fritz 24v ones do

[Jon_Bmw]

Am I thinking of the m50/s50 ones. I could have sworn I read some of them cleared. Obvisouly not

[DanThe]

Yes, the BTB S50/M50 do clear E36 racks, are the hottuning M20 manifolds BTB copies then??

[Jhonno]

Am I thinking of the m50/s50 ones. I could have sworn I read some of them cleared. Obvisouly not

4

Yeah you are

[eko]

I would buy a set of these flanges! Are they matched to the exhaust ports? Converting a hottuning manifold sounds like a VERY good plan, much less hassle than modding an M52 or S50 manifold.

Do the hottuning manifolds give clearance for an E36/46 rack?

Dan they are being machined to these dimensions but obviously in two halves



Got a phone call earlier to say they are ready to collect so will be picking them up tomorrow.
Once they have been tested for fit on the M50 head ill post up some pics etc.

[daimlerman]

I would buy a set of these flanges! Are they matched to the exhaust ports? Converting a hottuning manifold sounds like a VERY good plan, much less hassle than modding an M52 or S50 manifold.

Do the hottuning manifolds give clearance for an E36/46 rack?

As far as I know,the Hottuning manifold does not clear an E36 rack. Beardymat investigated this a while back.He also looked at E36 gear in an E30 case without any luck.The Hottuning manifold is a very tight fit between the M20 head and the inner wing/ suspension turret,I had to raise the engine a little to slide the rear section home.As the M50 head is wider(?)this may cause problems....

[DanThe]

As the M50 head is wider(?)this may cause problems....

Yes, it would need trimming a bit, there is also the extra angle of the engine to think about

[ric325i]

so much speculation lets see if it fits

[daimlerman]

so much speculation lets see if it fits

Well at least someone may have come up with a better solution to this issue. What is the difference in the engine's angle?

[E30BeemerLad]

instead of butchering the more expensive M20 6 branch, why not buy a M50 hottuning manifold for £99 + £15 post and modify that by cutting the rear 3 branches slightly near the flange, as per the mod to the M52 manifold?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-E36-6-CYLINDE ... m153.l1262

Just a thought, I'm still being messed around for my manifold so may have to look at something drastic soon.

[ric325i]

so much speculation lets see if it fits

Well at least someone may have come up with a better solution to this issue. What is the difference in the engine's angle?

I love the fact that people are playing with these ideas and getting it all hooked up!!!! im just inpatient

its a great idea!!!

me and jaffro were thinking of having a butchers at the m20 mani for the m30. spaceing the ports out slightly.


beemerlad i think he is doing this cause he had his sitting around. jaffro looked at those delightful hottunning mani's but decided on a cast iron job which fit on a right treat

he did cut off the flanges for the down pipes to attach to but he still would have had space to clear the steering mech.

[eko]

Right picked the newly cutout flanges today.
One small problem though.
They only had 4mm mild steel available to do them so 3 need to be sandwiched together to achieve the 12mm required thickness.
Easy enough to do by aligning them together and cutting a thin slice across all 3 edges then tack welding together.
Test fitted one to the M50 head and they fit perfectly as expected.
Took a couple of pics but only on my phone so quality aint great,ill post them up in a few minutes.

[ric325i]

fits


will se pic when get home

[eko]

...

[eko]

Right few pics as promised,again sorry for the poor quality of them but hopefully give you some idea what im going on about





This pic shows the port in the flange in relation to the head



These show it against the gasket



Next job is to use the old cast manifold as a jig to hold the 3 sandwich sections together so they can be tacked,gutted they couldnt do them out of thicker metal but this is something that can be improved on the next one I do.

[OBs]

lloks interesting
So good you posted it twice

How to get round the manifold / rack issues

[eko]

lloks interesting
So good you posted it twice

Edited

[Jhonno]

I would spend some time with a dremel personally..