S50 or M60

[jmc330i]

So I've been considering another engine conversion recently. My Sport previously had an S50 fitted and I really miss it so I'm leaning towards doing another one, but I've also got the need for a V8 in my life!

Considering the cost of the M60 manual gearboxes or the S50 engines, plus the manifolds for either, I can see the overall costs being quite similar.
I guess the M60 is more involved what with the brake servo issue, I'd possibly build an M62 bottom end with M60 heads etc (I do enjoy the work as much as the finished project) and as I've already done an S50 I know what's involved with that, so I'm torn between the two.

Anyone got any thoughts?

[DanThe]

For me it would be a choice as follows
Road car V8
Track slag S50

[jmc330i]

Pretty much what I was thinking Dan. This will be a road car so the V8 would be more suited for a more relaxed drive, with the extra grunt when needed.

[Simon13]

is anyone running a V8 one with something that resembles brakes and having a glovebox or a car that stops?

[jimbom30cab]

V8 would be more fun. Brakes would be quite expensive i would think.

[KW355]

I am running a wilwood bias pedal box, i have just added a remote servo on the fronts, it stops fine with the current e46 m3 brake setup but i am upgrading to 840 Brembos .

[jmc330i]

is anyone running a V8 one with something that resembles brakes and having a glovebox or a car that stops?

That is something I'm looking into. I've got an idea but need to do some measuring to see if it might work. If not, I'm not too worried about losing the glovebox - I can't actually remember the last time I opened the glovebox on either of my E30s.

[DanThe]

Rather than move servos and fluid reservoirs into the car, make the glovebox horrible and mess with linkages that introduce more flex into the thing I would use a proper pedal box like so - http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=341516

[jmc330i]

Thanks Dan I don't know anything about pedal boxes, can you match the cylinder sizes to give a decent pedal for a road car?

[DanThe]

From what ive looked at it seems quite easy to get pedal effort below 20kg to achieve a 1g braking force, pedal ratio and master cylinder sizing dependant.
I will be fitting one of those Tilton setups to my track car soon

[Simon13]

An S38 engined e30 does the same job in an e30 like the V8 does from my experience, granted S38 engines are alot more money now. But when you could get a fucked 3.6 e34 M5 for £1500 it was as cheap a conversion as the v8's in fact cheaper and you could still have a novelty item such as a brake servo!

I drove Karans old 3.6 and it really did fly, a 3.8 would really fly as they pull a heavier e34 along really quite well

[bss325i]

I seem to remember a zoner who had a dolphin grey 2dr tech 2 with an M6x V8 coupled to an auto box and he span at santa pod going up the strip.

He was a south african chap and i seem to remember (after looking round it prior to said spin) that it had the hydraulic booster set up as red in an E32/E34/big six E28 which negated the problem of servo size.

[bss325i]

I seem to remember a zoner who had a dolphin grey 2dr tech 2 with an M6x V8 coupled to an auto box and he span at santa pod going up the strip.

He was a south african chap and i seem to remember (after looking round it prior to said spin) that it had the hydraulic booster set up as red in an E32/E34/big six E28 which negated the problem of servo size.

[ajay]

The fella with the white S38 touring you & Simon had a look under the bonnet at Ace cafe last year,is also a south African chap...a˜†

[DanThe]

I seem to remember a zoner who had a dolphin grey 2dr tech 2 with an M6x V8 coupled to an auto box and he span at santa pod going up the strip.

He was a south african chap and i seem to remember (after looking round it prior to said spin) that it had the hydraulic booster set up as red in an E32/E34/big six E28 which negated the problem of servo size.

I remember that one, coolant hose blew off and greased the track, he span and made an epic save, then got a load of abuse from the commentator for driving to the end of the strip dropping coolant

[KW355]

Thanks Dan I don't know anything about pedal boxes, can you match the cylinder sizes to give a decent pedal for a road car?

I ran 5/8 wilwood masters on my pedal box with a 6.25 to 1 pedal ratio. I now believe i had a faulty master cylinder on my fronts as i could get 900 to 1500 psi on the rears by adjusting the bias but only 700 to 1000 psi on the fronts.
on non servo systems you need to go smaller with the masters to get higher line pressures.
I now have a 3/4 master on the fronts which now makes 1200 p.s.i or 1600 psi with the in line servo working.
The brakes now work much better than before but i am still fitting some 4 pot brembos on the front as well.

[jmc330i]

An S38 engined e30 does the same job in an e30 like the V8 does from my experience....

While I do understand what you're saying, if i was to go for an S engine again I would do another S50 conversion. I was more than happy with how it performed and considering I drove it as a daily driver for 12 months, it's mpg figures were pretty good - far better than the M20!
My Sport won't be a daily driver from now on, so I can go for something a little different and not have to worry too much.

[jmc330i]

it had the hydraulic booster set up as red in an E32/E34/big six E28 which negated the problem of servo size.

I'm glad you mentioned that Barry, it is one of the options I'm considering after seeing Ian's S50B32 with the same setup.
It may still need the mounting of the master cylinder moved towards the passenger side (as some move the servo for 24v swaps) to give more clearance to the head, but that's something I'll look into if I do go the M60 route.

[glenn]

He was a south african chap and i seem to remember (after looking round it prior to said spin) that it had the hydraulic booster set up as red in an E32/E34/big six E28 which negated the problem of servo size.

i used the hydraulic booster set-up from an e32 when i fitted the s62 into the warsteiner rep. had to find places to mount valves and an accumalator....


(only pic i could find)

[jmc330i]

Thanks Dan I don't know anything about pedal boxes, can you match the cylinder sizes to give a decent pedal for a road car?

I ran 5/8 wilwood masters on my pedal box with a 6.25 to 1 pedal ratio. I now believe i had a faulty master cylinder on my fronts as i could get 900 to 1500 psi on the rears by adjusting the bias but only 700 to 1000 psi on the fronts.
on non servo systems you need to go smaller with the masters to get higher line pressures.
I now have a 3/4 master on the fronts which now makes 1200 p.s.i or 1600 psi with the in line servo working.
The brakes now work much better than before but i am still fitting some 4 pot brembos on the front as well.

How does the pedal feel without the inline servo?
I've only driven a track built Mk2 Escort with a pedal box and pedal was far too hard for my liking. It may of been fine when pushing it around a track, but I certainly wouldn't want it like that for a road car.

[jmc330i]

From what ive looked at it seems quite easy to get pedal effort below 20kg to achieve a 1g braking force, pedal ratio and master cylinder sizing dependant.
I will be fitting one of those Tilton setups to my track car soon

I'd certainly be interested in how you get on with that Dan

[jimbom30cab]

Would you consider the S54 engine ?

[jmc330i]

Would you consider the S54 engine ?

Possibly Jim, although I actually prefer the 'older' look of the S50 and think it suits the E30 engine bay better.
I've not looked at the costs involved with the S54 but I would assume it's more than an S50, so would need to consider if it's worth the extra for a road car that's very unlikely to see any track action.

[ajay]

Having done an S50 & S54 i would not consider another S50, although they are similar in terms of power, the throttle responce & pick up of an S54 is way superior, 8k rpm in an E30 is always a thrill & use of the sport button adds to the experience in a way that eclipses an S50. I do agree that the S50 engines look more period correct in an E30 though.