Alpina c2.7 advice

[87mtech27]

Chow 92 is your the white tech 2 on a g reg ? With red leathers? Any progress on the car?

Yes that belongs to Chow.

[Gert_8]

What's the difference?

Usual Alpina changes tended to be a slightly larger bore "tuned" engine (no visible difference because it cannot be seen externally) altered/improved suspension (slight difference to stance) visible externally, and tacked on bits to bodywork and some internals...visible and not so.

Other than that, the same bodywork.

[Andyboy]

Andyboy so the e30 m3 would you class that as a slightly better e30 the simple fact is the alpina c2.7 are rare highly desirable compared to the 325i sport and the better car theirs a reason their ££££ compared to 325is

The M3 was a radically different car to the regular E30 to the extent that very few parts are interchangeable. It remains the most successful touring car ever.

The C2 2.7 is a warmed over 325i with some nice wheels and trinkets. It was quite a nice thing when new but nothing a Sierra Cosworth with a touch more boost couldn't sort out. Or a Renault 21 Turbo. I believe a Montego Turbo had the legs on it as well.

[87mtech27]

Surely Sierra Cosworth would have dealt with the M3 as well, especially with a little more more boost?

[Simon13]

This is painful now, straight line speed is what counts now.

[B7]

Usual Alpina changes tended to be a slightly larger bore "tuned" engine (no visible difference because it cannot be seen externally).

No they didn't. It was stroked not bored. And a genuine block and head is stamped by Alpina.

[Gert_8]

Usual Alpina changes tended to be a slightly larger bore "tuned" engine (no visible difference because it cannot be seen externally).

No they didn't. It was stroked not bored. And a genuine block and head is stamped by Alpina.

Yes, but you're missing the point.

[87mtech27]

For the street it more or less is about straight line speed. M3 vs Cossy it really boils down to the turbo lag of the cossy and length of the road imo??

Im aware as touring cars, they was in different classes and the M3 still managed to keep up with the cossies as the Ford's handling, overall chassis, reliability and even managing to put all its power down wor ked against it.

[DanThe]

If street racing through high wycombe is your bag”¦

[87mtech27]

C2 2.5 is both bored and stroked to give a displacement of 2554cc and In the case of B6 it was entire engine swap. Lot more R&D and work went into it than meets the eye.

Alpina are highly unique cars and no two cars were identical so worth their price tags imo.

[87mtech27]

If street racing through high wycombe is your bag”¦

I'm no racer, seen people be run over 3x in my time to do something so stupid as that nor is the terrain ideal for racing in Wycombe, not a single straight level road around these ends!!

Street racing is mostly done on dual carriageways or small stretch of straight roads by people... who does 80mph going round a bend?? therefore M3 handling is of no use off track

[B7]

C2 2.5 is both bored and stroked to give a displacement of 2554cc and In the case of B6 it was entire engine swap. Lot more R&D and work went into it than meets the eye.

Alpina are highly unique cars and no two cars were identical so worth their price tags imo.

'fraid not.

the C2.5 was purely a cam, ecu and exhaust on a standard 2.5 to bring it to around 192hp. That conversion was also available with no other Alpina trinkets and was known as the Alpina sport pack. Barry had a convertible with that very conversion. Bore and stroke was standard 2.5.

The C2 2.7 was a standard 2.5 block with a TD crank which had a longer stroke. it used standard 135mm rods with custom Mahle pistons with the gudgeon pin further up the piston to ensure TDC remains and a flatter top. It shared exactly the same bore as a 2.5. The 2.7 was achieved with swept volume and not by enlarging the bores. It then had a head that was worked by the Alpina guys which took meat away from the combustion chambers and moved the compression from the piston crown to the chamber. The exhaust ports were tickled to perfect round (standard heads always had a slightly egg shaped port), the inlets were mildly tckled we think but never polished or enlarged. It then gained a bespoke ECU, exhaust and cam to complete the package.

There are a few of us with these engines and have had them apart numerous times.

[B7]

This is painful now.

You are not wrong Si........

[bss325i]

C2 2.5 is both bored and stroked to give a displacement of 2554cc and In the case of B6 it was entire engine swap. Lot more R&D and work went into it than meets the eye.

Alpina are highly unique cars and no two cars were identical so worth their price tags imo.

'fraid not.

the C2.5 was purely a cam, ecu and exhaust on a standard 2.5 to bring it to around 192hp. That conversion was also available with no other Alpina trinkets and was known as the Alpina sport pack. Barry had a convertible with that very conversion. Bore and stroke was standard 2.5.

The C2 2.7 was a standard 2.5 block with a TD crank which had a longer stroke. it used standard 135mm rods with custom Mahle pistons with the gudgeon pin further up the piston to ensure TDC remains and a flatter top. It shared exactly the same bore as a 2.5. The 2.7 was achieved with swept volume and not by enlarging the bores. It then had a head that was worked by the Alpina guys which took meat away from the combustion chambers and moved the compression from the piston crown to the chamber. The exhaust ports were tickled to perfect round (standard heads always had a slightly egg shaped port), the inlets were mildly tckled we think but never polished or enlarged. It then gained a bespoke ECU, exhaust and cam to complete the package.

There are a few of us with these engines and have had them apart numerous times.

Trev, they did do a C2 2.5 as well as a C2.5.

The C2 2.5 was based on the 323i and was 2554cc as opposed to the 325i's 2494cc.

Felix's old turd was one of those early ones.

[87mtech27]

C2 2.5 was based on the 323i before BMW released the 325i (on which the c2.5 was based) with its 2494cc motor. From what I've read the C2 2.5 used eta block (84mm bore) with 323i crank (76mm or 76.8mm stroke) with custom mahle pistons.. I'm guessing they did the standard port and polish with cam etc. Power was rated at 190 bhp. C2.5 was rated at 185 bhp.

[bss325i]

therefore M3 handling is of no use off track

Well thats rubbish.

[bss325i]

C2 2.5 was based on the 323i before BMW released the 325i (on which the c2.5 was based) with its 2494cc motor. From what I've read the C2 2.5 used eta block (84mm bore) with 323i crank (76mm or 76.8mm stroke) with custom mahle pistons.. I'm guessing they did the standard port and polish with cam etc. Power was rated at 190 bhp. C2.5 was rated at 185 bhp.

C2.5 was 192bhp.

[87mtech27]

C2 2.5 is 185bhp then? Shame no one has opened and documented the c2 2.5 engine to see how it was built... Most likely 130mm rods, flat mahle pistons and guessing the same head as c1 2.3.

[Topblag]

C2 2.5 is 185bhp then? Shame no one has opened and documented the c2 2.5 engine to see how it was built... Most likely 130mm rods, flat mahle pistons and guessing the same head as c1 2.3.

I'm restoring mine and may well have the head off it soon. I'll take some pics for the wiki.

[bss325i]

C2 2.5 is 185bhp then? Shame no one has opened and documented the c2 2.5 engine to see how it was built... Most likely 130mm rods, flat mahle pistons and guessing the same head as c1 2.3.

I'm restoring mine and may well have the head off it soon. I'll take some pics for the wiki.

What year is your car Collin?

[87mtech27]

C2 2.5 is 185bhp then? Shame no one has opened and documented the c2 2.5 engine to see how it was built... Most likely 130mm rods, flat mahle pistons and guessing the same head as c1 2.3.

I'm restoring mine and may well have the head off it soon. I'll take some pics for the wiki.

That would be interesting read

[chow92]

Anyways jamie079 regarding Your choose when it comes to getting your c2.7 as you can see their are some mixed reviews and feelings between the fellow members on here. Personally I would just go with your gut and buy one for you if u really want one or put another 10k in to your budget and get a e30 m3 nd lose the straight six lol. When it comes to the cosworth yes the cossy with a few twicks and little money trown at it is a way faster car and if speed matters why are we driving e30s for ?

[chow92]

Let's all buy them 2.0 turbocharged datsuns lol

[B7]

C2 2.5 is both bored and stroked to give a displacement of 2554cc and In the case of B6 it was entire engine swap. Lot more R&D and work went into it than meets the eye.

Alpina are highly unique cars and no two cars were identical so worth their price tags imo.

'fraid not.

the C2.5 was purely a cam, ecu and exhaust on a standard 2.5 to bring it to around 192hp. That conversion was also available with no other Alpina trinkets and was known as the Alpina sport pack. Barry had a convertible with that very conversion. Bore and stroke was standard 2.5.

The C2 2.7 was a standard 2.5 block with a TD crank which had a longer stroke. it used standard 135mm rods with custom Mahle pistons with the gudgeon pin further up the piston to ensure TDC remains and a flatter top. It shared exactly the same bore as a 2.5. The 2.7 was achieved with swept volume and not by enlarging the bores. It then had a head that was worked by the Alpina guys which took meat away from the combustion chambers and moved the compression from the piston crown to the chamber. The exhaust ports were tickled to perfect round (standard heads always had a slightly egg shaped port), the inlets were mildly tckled we think but never polished or enlarged. It then gained a bespoke ECU, exhaust and cam to complete the package.

There are a few of us with these engines and have had them apart numerous times.

Trev, they did do a C2 2.5 as well as a C2.5.

The C2 2.5 was based on the 323i and was 2554cc as opposed to the 325i's 2494cc.

Felix's old turd was one of those early ones.

That's right but looking at the OP's original post, I took it that he was looking at later cars.

[87mtech27]

OP I don't think you can't be too picky with regards to colour or spec when it comes to choosing a Alpina C2 2.7 as most likely none will meet your criteria spot on. Just be sure it's genuine with paperwork to prove and go from there.

M3 is a totally different car to the 6 pots, basically its a race car sold to the public so BMW can go racing unfortunately for car manufacturers at the time they had to build and sell 5000 identical cars and 500 examples of any evolution if changes where made.

It all comes down to your budget at the end of the day to what you want.

[87mtech27]

When it comes to the cosworth yes the cossy with a few twicks and little money trown at it is a way faster car and if speed matters why are we driving e30s for ?

I would rather prefer unmolested Sierra RS Cosworth (3Dr not a fan of sapphire) with 204bhp than one with increased boost and silly 3" exhaust.

M3 comes alive at 4k+ revs and cossie is similar due to turbo lag but I'd imagine when it comes on you would really feel the kick

Would love both in my imaginary dream garage

[Gert_8]

I know I'll get abused for the following, but the cosworth is an ugly dog of a car compared to any E30

[chow92]

I know I'll get abused for the following, but the cosworth is an ugly dog of a car compared to any E30

Other way round lol

[steve_k]

I know I'll get abused for the following, but the cosworth is an ugly dog of a car compared to any E30

which one? 3 door? saff? or escort??

[elan]

The op may want to read the July 2011 edition of classic car magazine which has some information on buying Alpina C2 2.7 ( featuring my car ). I have scanned copies if anyone wants them. I was surprised to read the Alpina is 200kg lighter than the M3.

[Topblag]

C2 2.5 is 185bhp then? Shame no one has opened and documented the c2 2.5 engine to see how it was built... Most likely 130mm rods, flat mahle pistons and guessing the same head as c1 2.3.

I'm restoring mine and may well have the head off it soon. I'll take some pics for the wiki.

What year is your car Collin?

1988 on an F plate.

[Gert_8]

I know I'll get abused for the following, but the cosworth is an ugly dog of a car compared to any E30

which one? 3 door? saff? or escort??

Sierra 3 door. Hideous! the Escort was very nice!

[bss325i]

I'm restoring mine and may well have the head off it soon. I'll take some pics for the wiki.

What year is your car Collin?

1988 on an F plate.

Then yours will be the 325i based C2.5 spec engine with just a cam as the only internal difference to a standard 325i engine, not the 2554cc version with custom Pistons, eta block and 323i crank.

[bss325i]

The op may want to read the July 2011 edition of classic car magazine which has some information on buying Alpina C2 2.7 ( featuring my car ). I have scanned copies if anyone wants them. I was surprised to read the Alpina is 200kg lighter than the M3.

Weight is always dependant on the options spec of the car so don't take that 200kg difference as gospel.

[DanThe]

I know I'll get abused for the following, but the cosworth is an ugly dog of a car compared to any E30

which one? 3 door? saff? or escort??

All of them