set me brakes on fire last night! need bigger advice please!

[hairypete]

hey guys, wow what a road, what a drive and what a fekkin smell!!!! forget fade me brakes just stopped working! and god did i shit it when i saw all the smok! but ultra cool if you ask me,

so im after biggin up me brakes bigtime! either a swap of calipers and discs to bigger and better sizes from a suitable donor car or to go for it and pop some 540 brakes or something like that, with the 5 stud conversion included, very open to ideas guys, sorry if this has been done before, but i couldnt find anything about it on the search!

advice, thoughts or practical experience greatly appreciated here!

[Lordschleife]

First off, what pads/fluid are you running at the moment?
Changing these can make a huge improvement.

[ed325i]

You could go for the 312mm conversion using audi tt discs and 740/750 or 540 cailpers with adapters.





ED

[hairypete]

currently just using standard bmw stuff on there, fluid could possibly do with a refresh, and yeah the discs are kinda on thier way out to be fair, but always been looking for the excuse to uprate them somehow, like the TT idea, seems simple enough, take it you drilled two out of the four holes for our hubs, but just how much of an adapter do you need? is it to give a different mounting position for the calipers? and are they buyable ( is that a word?) or is it a custom weld it yourself kinda jobbie? oh duh, i just saw it, just cut a profile out of some chunky steel is it? then a drill and tap session?

sounds the route i would go down, simple enough,

hey while i think about it, what sort of price would a four or six pot conversion kit thing cost? does the zone do something along these lines? sure i saw something on here somewhere... im gonna go have a look... cheers guys,

[ed325i]

Go to www.300mm.de

ED

[hairypete]

cool dude! dont get german, but it works out to 450 quid ish for the total kit, hmm, wonder if i can just get the adapters... hmm, the cogs start turnin!

[Paulsimon8]

Hispec motorsport do various big brake conversions for all E30's

Altho, some of the ford boys have had major issues with hispec, especially cooking discs at the first sign of abuse

[hairypete]

hmm, think i will get all the bits from the breakers apart from pads n discs and then try and find the measurements for the adapter and get a couple made up at a local firm, gotta be a hell of a lot less than 400 quid! sigh, the project grows!

[ed325i]

You can just get the adaptors from www.300mm.de and get the rest alse where.

ED

[Lordschleife]

Hispec motorsport do various big brake conversions for all E30's

Altho, some of the ford boys have had major issues with hispec, especially cooking discs at the first sign of abuse

I wouldnt touch em after reading this!
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~richw42 ... brakes.htm

[Andy335Touring]

Hispec motorsport do various big brake conversions for all E30's

Altho, some of the ford boys have had major issues with hispec, especially cooking discs at the first sign of abuse

I wouldnt touch em after reading this!
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~richw42 ... brakes.htm

Thats appalling, how can some one continue to trade like that !

[miniblob]

They look impressive!!!! Might give that a try if i (when i) knacker the ATE discs i just got!!

[Brenner5]

sorry to hijack but can anyone read German ?

how much do the adapters cost ?

are the 740/750 calipers 4 pots ?

how much difference in braking power

total costs?

would this be a better option that the WMS 4 pots (think they will be selling on the zone soon)

[hairypete]

god damn scary reading that link about HiSpec was! i really am very impatient when i get those itches, and if i cant get things sorted once the cash is in place i get right snotty! chuck me teddy out me pram and everything, i wouldnt have let them muck me about that much, miss the first deadline i would have had me cash back there and then! told em where to go!

but in other news, i have german relatives ( sadly, the smelly hairy buggers that they are!) and when they get back from holiday i will be getting them to find me out the prices for just the adapters, so when i know in about a week i wil let you guys know, unless some clever monkey already knows!

ooo and four potters through the zone!? might be interested in them if they are at a good price! anyone got any more info on them?

[dark_sounds]

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... ic&t=42026

^^ thats what u want!














the rust will help you stop! better be quick, a certain member (any guesses??) hasnt seen these yet... im sure he will be interested, though would rather sell to you,,, cosi dont want to have to wait months for collection....

[zaust]

tar-ox do a lovely complete 6 pot kit for 15" 16" ect wheel size. work out a little over a grand but you wont have any more problems.

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/ ... l?id=50623

[Demlotcrew]

^ For that money i would get AP!!!!

Andrew

[zaust]

Debatable coz there both so damm good.

[Demlotcrew]

tar-ox cant even get close to AP they are totaly different.

Andrew

[hairypete]

hmmm, i would just like to say im no tight arse thanks! ya buggers,
i paid 250 quid for a damn air filter! lol,
but right now i just want to sort something out until i have saved up for something like an AP conversion or such likes.

[TheKaiser]

I used cross drilled disks on my old gti to get round them getting hot, it did make quite a difference and wasnt that costly

[ed325i]

sorry to hijack but can anyone read German ?

how much do the adapters cost ?

are the 740/750 calipers 4 pots ?

how much difference in braking power

total costs?

would this be a better option that the WMS 4 pots (think they will be selling on the zone soon)

I think the adapters cost about £130 ish.
The cailpers are single pot.
I have been told they are better then the WMS set up.

ED

[WillG]

300mm.de translated http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... uage_tools

[Lordschleife]

hmmm, i would just like to say im no tight arse thanks! ya buggers,
i paid 250 quid for a damn air filter! lol,
but right now i just want to sort something out until i have saved up for something like an AP conversion or such likes.

Just whack on some Ferodo DS2500 or Mintex 1155 pads, and some Motul RBF600 fluid in then - they'll stand up to way more heat than std pads/fluid which'll fade in no time, and the pads should have better bite and higher friction co efficient

Would avoid drilled discs as they can crack, grooved are fine though - ATE power discs work well and cheap as chips, though to be honest the BMW std discs should be fine with a pad/fluid upgrade

[keri-WMS]

The cailpers are single pot.
I have been told they are better then the WMS set up.

ED

Really? Who managed to compare them then, I'd be interested in the data...

I have ONE WMS 280mm kit left at the moment (with the "works motorsport" logo instead of WMS), but generally they are available here now as part of a deal with the zone shop.

The basic kit is £344+vat (CNC ally 4-pots, stainess brackets, discs and bolts etc). Braided Earls lines to suit, pads and grooves are all a bit extra....

This kit fits in 15" BBS's, just...

[ed325i]

I'd be interested in the data...

I would be interested in the data you have saying how good your brakes are.
Just because you have fancy 4 pots don't mean they are any good.

You can do the 312mm conversion very cheap.
For the £344+ vat you charge you can put together 2 312mm kits together and this includes the pads/ pipes the lot no extras Now which one shall I have

ED

[Demlotcrew]

The beauty of Tinos 312mm kit is that you can use a stock BMW pad which offers better performance than the smaller four pot kits and will not damage your alloys with deadly metalic particles which are included in todays high performance pads.

I have yet to fade my brakes and i dont drive slow! I just love the fact that i can get them really hot then pull over and not have to worry about cooling them down and risking warpage. I really cant fault this setup.

Andrew

[hairypete]

ok ok ok, guys play nice now, whats going on, now we have the 312mm conversion that i can source from breakers etc but need to fly over adapters from germany which makes me nervous having never done it.

or i now have these attractive lookin 4 pot wms jobbies, which i am drawn to cause they look pretty, but seriously, now its getting a bit gritty. which is going to be the better idea here, which pad is offering the bigger surface area and how much are these wms ones going to be to replace, cause i get a feeling they will be more than the stock 540 pads. bet the discs for a TT are gonna be cheaper too, hmm, its pointing me too the 312mm conversion, anymore thoughts on this people? trouble is i like the idea of getting hold of a shiny new kit and bolting it on by next weekend. but i can be patient, ish...

[ed325i]

e mail Tino about the adapters 300mm@gmx.de he speaks english so you will be ok. If you a pay with paypal and he has some all ready made it will only take a couple of day for them to get to you.

The TT discs can be got from euro car parts.

You could see if people want to do a group buy on the adapters Tino might give a discount I know there are alot of people interested in the conversion just from the amount of e mails I have asking about info on the conversion.

ED

[hairypete]

and it was 130 quid for the adapters, hmm, 40 quid for 1.8 turbo TT discs, and around the same for 540 pads, so just need the calipers and some brake fluid and we are there, 312mm brakes for around 240 quid, hmm, now that makes sense to me, do like the look of the four pot things, but i prefer performance to style any day!

[keri-WMS]

do like the look of the four pot things, but i prefer performance to style any day!

Performance is what the WMS stuff is all about - it's motorsport gear at heart after all...

Disc size doesn't define brake system torque, it's the radius defined by the centre of the pads. There are BIG threads about this already though so lets not go over it again guys! Here's the link to the main one...

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... highlight=

The extras are:

UK 48h shipping to Zone1 = £10+vat
EBC Green Pads = £25.07+vat/set
EBC Red pads = £30.90+vat/set <--- These get our vote over greens even from cold!!!!
EBC Yellow (race) pads = £31.82+vat/set
Earls braided lines to fit the WMS caliper port type = £30.16+vat/pr
Upgrade to grooved discs = £48+vat/pr

Again we take paypal, dispatch is normally the next working day after payment is received, and P.F. often deliver "48h" stuff in 24h for no extra charge!

The last point is that we'll be doing a 300mm rotor/alloy bell kit (later this year with luck) that you can retro-fit by re-using your WMS calipers, pads, bolts, brake lines etc. You'll just need new brackets/bells/rotors and away you go - should fit tightly in most 16's.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not against Tino's kit in any way, horses for courses and all that! If you're on a tight budget or don't mind the weight factor and want to stay with BWM bits then it's a perfectly ok solution. What is the minimum wheel size by the way, anyone know?

[ed325i]

What is the minimum wheel size by the way, anyone know?

Its 16"



ED

[C33]

If you're getting brake fade for whatever reason, whether it be a soft pedal (fluid boiling) or overheating pads, would it not be wise to address why the existing setup is failing in the first place. Spongy pedal replace the fluid with fresh, preferably Dot5.1, but remeber it will need replacing more often cos its more hydroscopic than Dot4; however that doesnt seem to be the score in the original post.

If the brakeing performance of the brakes is good normally then first off I'd suggest the cheapest route to go would be fresh discs, fresh fluid and some decent pads in whatever your preferred flavour is.

This may be the wrong thing to say to a bloke, but also look at your driving style, I do trackdays at Oulton in my BM, using standard pads (autofactors favourite brand) and discs, last time out I did a 40min session with no fade or overheating at all. The best advice I was ever told for braking was brake once as hard and for as little time as possible for a corner. This gives the brakes as much time as possible to cool for the next braking zone.

If you still find you're cooking the pads, see if you can duct more cool air into the back of the wheel.

...now for the biased bit, Keri's kit, I use one of his 4-pot kits on my Chimaera racer in the Tuscan Challenge and it isn't just a nice looking set of black alloy calipers, they work too, to the point that I know of two more cars looking to run his brakes in the Tuscan Challenge next year instead of the AP Racing setups that are more common place. I can't comment on the 312mm kit, but as Keri has said in the past, it's not just a matter of who can run the biggest OD disc, but where the centre line of the pad sits.

One word of warning; if you're getting temperature problems now, putting a bigger brake setup on will only make it worse. Effectively the brakes convert the energy from the car moving into heat, the quicker you do the conversion the hotter things get.

Regards
Iain

[DRIFTBOY]

I'm up for a group purchase of adaptors for the 312mm kit as I'm already going down that road.

My reason for choosing this set up is financial, not because I don't trust the WMS kit, so discount sounds good to me. I'm amazed that the adaptors are the dearest part of this set up! Tino is a great bloke to deal with though.

[hairypete]

C33, my good man thankyou, appreciate the difficulty you must have gone through addressing my driving style! lol, made me smile, and yeah its the first time its ever happened, after finally having half an hour to get my wheels off and have a good look, i found my pads are about halfway worn through but the discs are probably on their last few hundred miles. so i am convinced my problem lies there. as for brake fluid, erm well, i know it got changed on the last inspection 2 i had done, about a year ago, but funds and that fact that the brakes still work has kinda put swapping it to the back of the list. shameful i know!

Keri please dont think i was passing up the WMS jobbies as shiney things with no performance, not by any means, i was curious as to which set up was going to offer the best performance. i wish i had the reddies to just go for your conversion! at the moment i cant go for it, its just that little too much, but at some point soon i will be back in touch.

anyways, im going to go down the 315mm conversion route, after a lot of thought, as i will be replacing everything anyways, so discs and pads are already part of the cost, and for 130 quid for the adapters to make the calipers fit, its an upgrade that the wallet can afford and if it makes no difference, then i have not lost very much, until i have the cash for a proper conversion!

as for the group buy of the adapters, im in, so get your names in guys and see what we can do!
cheers for all your opinions and help guys!