Bits to change when swapping springs?

[Ziggy]

Gonna fit a new set of springs to my cab soon & I want to replace whatever I should at the same time... So what is there that's likely to be worn out?
Top mounts?
Bushes?
Ball joints?

Cheers

[Gwynleym10]

tops mounts for sure (and i'm sure you now about the e46 convertible ones)

What about shocks?

[Ziggy]

tops mounts for sure (and i'm sure you now about the e46 convertible ones)

What about shocks?

Yup, but are all e30 top mounts the same? ie will the e46cab ones fit an e30 convertible? & it's just the rear ones from the e46 IIRC isn't it? Cheers

I'd definately do the shocks if I could find some at a decent price... I desperately want to lower it, but I don't fancy forking out a fortune for shocks when I want to upgrade to the H&R cup kit eventually. The guy I got em from (chu) said they were ok on his car with standard shocks, 'til he swapped for the cup kit...

Can't help thinking there must be some bushes etc in the front end that'll want doing too?

[Gwynleym10]

TBH when your just replacing the spring you don't go near any bushes (at the back anyway)

Its only worth replacing the front if they are actually worn, time to have a look.

re e46 top mounts

Just the rear i think, some say all e46 are the same I say that convertible ones are even stronger, all fit e30s!

[Luke]

When I lowered mine I found that it really showed up the problems with the other suspension components. Ended up having to change the control arm ball joints and bushes and I wish i'd changed the trailing arm bushes as well! Obviously much quicker and less annoying to change it all while it's apart than change the suspension and find it's still schloppy and have to take it all apart again! Amazing how much difference the control arms make.

[Ziggy]

TBH when your just replacing the spring you don't go near any bushes (at the back anyway)

Its only worth replacing the front if they are actually worn, time to have a look.

re e46 top mounts

Just the rear i think, some say all e46 are the same I say that convertible ones are even stronger, all fit e30s!

Coolio e46 cab rear top mounts are the first thing on my list then! Is there any way of checking the fronts before I pull it apart? I'll be doing it at a weekend (possibly this weekend!) & I'll need the car on Monday morning so I kinda need all the bits ready before I start.

[Ziggy]

When I lowered mine I found that it really showed up the problems with the other suspension components. Ended up having to change the control arm ball joints and bushes and I wish i'd changed the trailing arm bushes as well! Obviously much quicker and less annoying to change it all while it's apart than change the suspension and find it's still schloppy and have to take it all apart again! Amazing how much difference the control arms make.

Exactly what I was thinking - might as well do it in one go...
So the list of bits to get should now be:
1: e46 cab rear top mounts
2: control arm ball joints & bushes
3: trailing arm bushes... they're not really a DIY job though are they?

Any issues with fitting the others?

[Ziggy]

& from another thread Gwynley...

Could you put some thicker pads (you can get e'm from the dealers) or just an extra set to even things out a bit?

How does that work again / what do I have to get? A bit worried I'm going slightly too low on the back with my new springs so this could be rather useful!

Cheers

[Gwynleym10]

Thicker pads... better ask you dealer really, but i have heard you can put one inside the other (maybe with a bit of modding)

re- rear traling arm bushes, apperently these don't really die all that often, more the subframe bushes, thats far more important to do.

[GDBN]

I have just fitted the H&R 60/40 cup kit to my cab .... I replaced the following ... Top shock mounts ( the rears were getting a bit crumbly) and also the pads the springs sit on, front bushes (not wishbone yet). I have this clunking from the front which I am told is the wishbone ball joints. So I have ordered new wishbones cos the ball joints are already there ( I believe changing ball joints with no workshop is tricky). I also opted for the Powerflex eccentric bushes for the wishbones as they are supposed to be much better. And don't forget new locking nuts !!

G

[Ziggy]

Thicker pads... better ask you dealer really, but i have heard you can put one inside the other (maybe with a bit of modding)

Will do
I'll try it without em first as swapping the rear springs ain't exactly complicated, but it's definately nice to know the option's there!

re- rear traling arm bushes, apperently these don't really die all that often, more the subframe bushes, thats far more important to do.

Gawd I'm getting confused between the two...
Either way, I wanna get the difficult ones done before long... Guess I'll leave the others 'til then (if they do need doing!) too.

[Ziggy]

I have just fitted the H&R 60/40 cup kit to my cab .... I replaced the following ... Top shock mounts ( the rears were getting a bit crumbly) and also the pads the springs sit on, front bushes (not wishbone yet). I have this clunking from the front which I am told is the wishbone ball joints. So I have ordered new wishbones cos the ball joints are already there ( I believe changing ball joints with no workshop is tricky). I also opted for the Powerflex eccentric bushes for the wishbones as they are supposed to be much better. And don't forget new locking nuts !!

G

Hokay... were the bushes straightforward to fit? & is it just the control arm ones or are there any others?

Anyone else got any recommendations on whether I should get new ball joints or wishbones?

Cheers

[GDBN]

There's 2 at the front .... the main control arm bush and also the stabilizer bar bushes ... the stab bar bushes aren't difficult but a bit fiddly ( I lost my temper a couple of times). I have heard the powerflex bushes are easy to install ... there are a couple of ways to remove the old control arm ones ... puller, jiggle it for hours with washing up liquid or cut em off. Do a search and you will find brianmoooores method of cutting them off.
As far as the ball joints go ... it depends on what facilities you have to remove them and change them - price wise and quoting the danish place I get my stuff .... inner ball joint Ԛ£13.80 , outer ball joint Ԛ£13.20 and hassle changing them or Ԛ£46.50 for a new arm with both fitted .... so Ԛ£20 each side is the price for my sanity !!
G

[Luke]

Think I paid about Ԛ£38 for each complete control arm from ecp. might as well get them i reckon - doesn't cost much more and you get even more nice new bits for your money! definitely recommend the powerflex m3 bushes as well.

[Ziggy]

Excellent stuff guys, cheers

So the list so far is:

1: e46 cab rear top mounts
2: front top mounts if needed
3: spring pads all round
4: 2 complete control arms
5: stablizer bar bushes
6: control arm bushes

Just to check, stabilizer bar = arb & control arm = wishbone?! Just want to make sure I ain't getting stoopidly confused here as I've not really touched e30 suspension before!

Where dya get the powerflex bushes & what's the advantage of the m3 ones?

[Andy335Touring]

Front suspension

<edit>TCA = track control arm





HTH

Andy

[Ziggy]

Nice one Andy 's about what I thought!

So which bits on there want replacing, & where from? #8 on the first diag I expect? Or would it come with a new wishbone?

[Andy335Touring]

They come separately, picy one you want the wish bone(4) and the bush(8 ).

The bush you can replace with standard BMW ones or M3(concentric or eccentric) ones that are solid rubber or powerflex type bushes. The differant bush's have varying degrees of how hard the bush is going from soft to hard.

Pic two i would replace 4 and 8, if you can afford it replace the same items on the back as well.

I have the eccentric M3 wish bone bush's which were about 40-45 quid for the pair.

[Andy335Touring]

Bush's and ARB drop links i'd get from the dealers and the wish bones i'd get from ECP but check the prices before ordering any thing.

[Ziggy]

Sooooo... eccentric/concentric/rubber/poly - why did you choose yours? Are they all that price?!

[Andy335Touring]

I wanted a bush harder than stock but i didn't want to go for poly incase it was to harsh.

Not sure on all the prices, i think you can get poly ones from the zone shop ?

[Ziggy]

So the m3 ones are harder than stock? & eccentric/concentric? - Camber compensation? Is there anything you can fit at the rear to alter camber?

[Andy335Touring]

The normal ones have more spaces/cut outs in the rubber than the M3 ones, it's just normal grade rubber i think.

The eccentric ones increase castor which is supossed to help with high speed stability,stability under braking and the self centering of the wheels/steering.

But, i think some one said the main reason they changed from concentric to eccentric was so they could fit bigger wheels.

You can get camber corecting bush's for the rear from BMW and i think you can get powerflex poly ones to ? These are the trailing arm bush's.

[Luke]

I don't find the poly bushes at all harsh myself. Although the colour's quite harsh (bright purple)!!

They're eccentric which alters the castor angle (so I'm told) and makes the car turn in quicker and the steering heavier so you get more feedback. Downside is the car responds more to the road so needs more input from you!

The difference they and the control arms/wishbones made to my car was fantastic, but it's not really a fair comparison as the old ones were shagged!

[Ziggy]

Bushes from powerflex then, I think I'll leave the back for now though - I'll see how it looks, but if I don't really need to do em at the same time as the springs, they can wait (especially as the lot are about Ԛ£150!). I couldn't see any camber correction rear ones on powerflex.co.uk anyway...?


1: e46 cab rear top mounts - 609110620 E46 REAR TOP MOUNT CONVERTIBLE x2 Ԛ£10.13 each from ECP

2: front top mounts - 609110040/609110041 FRONT TOP SUSP/MTG E30 Ԛ£13.65 / Ԛ£2.76(!) x2 each from ECP

3: spring pads all round - Can't find em on ECP... anyone?

4: 2 complete control arms - 616110010 E30 LH.FRONT WISHBONE & 616110020 E30 R.H. WISHBONE Ԛ£34.95 each from ECP

5: ARB bushes - Front Anti Roll Bar Mounting
2 per car (each) PFF5-302-19 2 19mm x2 Ԛ£12.95 each from Powerflex There's 19mm/22mm/24mm options - what does an '87 325i cab have?!

6: Front Lower Wishbone Rear Bush Eccentric (each) PFF5-303 1 x2 Ԛ£18.95 each from Powerflex

7: ARB links - 605110120 LINK,STAB/BAR TO W/BONE E30,36 E30,E36,RANGE 10/82-
ANTI ROLL BAR LINK x2 Ԛ£9.44 each from ECP


Blimey! Is that about right?!

[Andy335Touring]

Rear ARBs are 12mm, front are 21mm according to the ETK ? Might be worth checking with the dealers, give them your chasis number

Spring pads will have to be from the dealers i think ? You will have to give them your chasis number to make sure you get the right parts.

Are you doing the front and rear ARB bush's and drop links ?

If you wanted to shave a little from your parts bill then i would not replace the front top mounts or the spring pads, neither are famed for wearing out on the E30 unless they look obviously worn ?

[Ziggy]

Well the top mounts ain't that much (cheap ones are less than Ԛ£3 each according to the ECP website!), so I might as well do em... or maybe my old ones'd be better than cr@p new ones?!

Dya mean that neither spring pads usually wear or just the fronts? Would be nice not to have to worry about ordering anything from the dealer & the rest can come from ECP & powerflex...

I wasn't really going to change much at the rear (just the top mounts), as Gwynley pointed out that it wasn't really part of the same job as the springs... & it was getting expensive! Is there anything that's worth doing that I can do easily enough myself though? Seems silly to skimp on that when I'm spending a fair bit on the front... But the set of powerflex bushes for the back was another Ԛ£150!

[Andy335Touring]

Sorry, i wasn't to clear, i was trying to say all of the spring pads.

You can all ways change the rear parts later, just have a good look at them when you change the rear top mounts ?

[Ziggy]

Makes sense mate; cheers

The only worry is that I'll pull it apart, find I need new spring pads, & have to put it back together without for work on Monday morning! Or is it really uncommon to need em?

I'm fairly sure my rear subframe bushes'll need doing before long (the ones I can't do myself ), so I'll probably sort all of the back at the same time...

There doesn't seem to be much wrong with any of it tbh, so I'm probably wasting time & money for the sake of it, but hey I'll be happier!

[GDBN]

Hi Ziggy ... fairly sure my spring pads came with the car back in 86. They didn't look bad at all and I am sure they were good enough to reuse. If you think about it they don't actually do much - just keep thye spring in the right place.
One other thing ... when you do the rear - Bentley and others say undo the lower shock bolt and undo the arb link ... and the spring comes out on its own ..(I guess not on cabs !! ).. I still had to use spring clamps to get them out and putting the new ones in was a real pain in the a*se ... as there was not much space for the spring clamp rods.
Hope that helps, mate !!

G

[Ziggy]

Hi Ziggy ... fairly sure my spring pads came with the car back in 86. They didn't look bad at all and I am sure they were good enough to reuse. If you think about it they don't actually do much - just keep thye spring in the right place.
One other thing ... when you do the rear - Bentley and others say undo the lower shock bolt and undo the arb link ... and the spring comes out on its own ..(I guess not on cabs !! ).. I still had to use spring clamps to get them out and putting the new ones in was a real pain in the a*se ... as there was not much space for the spring clamp rods.
Hope that helps, mate !!

G

Cheers; I'll keep my fingers crossed & not get the pads then

What makes you think the cab's different to the others in terms of changing the rear springs

[GDBN]

No idea mate .... and I thought at least the new lowered ones would slide in even if the stock had to be compressed .... but no. Nearly lost the end of my thumb trying to get the damn clamps off as there is no space whatsoever.
And don't try to lever down each side too far - you could knacker the cv joints.
People say the rear is much easier than the front - I wouldn't say there was much difference as far as the springs go.

G

[Ziggy]

You make it sound like so much fun!! ;)

Got it all ready to order... decided not to get the front arb bushes straight away, as I'll be able to fit em without pulling it all apart again later (if it looks like I need em) won't I?

Anything else I need? Track rods /ends? Will they need to come off & have the tracking re-done anyway?

Currently about to order:
2x e46 cab rear topmounts
2x arb links
1x left wishbone
1x right wishbone
2x wishbone bushes

Total; about Ԛ£150

[Andy335Touring]

I'm fairly sure my rear subframe bushes'll need doing before long (the ones I can't do myself ), so I'll probably sort all of the back at the same time...

There doesn't seem to be much wrong with any of it tbh, so I'm probably wasting time & money for the sake of it, but hey I'll be happier!

Mine failed on the subframe bushs so i had them replaced with genuine BMW standard bushs by a garage for 127 all in, i was expecting the car to feel better but i couldn't feel any differance

[Ziggy]

Mine failed on the subframe bushs so i had them replaced with genuine BMW standard bushs by a garage for 127 all in, i was expecting the car to feel better but i couldn't feel any differance

B***er; it'd kinda be worth forking out for if the results were good!

Just to check; front arb bushes don't need everything else to come apart to be changed do they?

& is there anything else I need? Track rods /ends? Will they need to come off & have the tracking re-done anyway?