IS Conversion. ---Not Starting.....HELP!

[SwirlyE30]

Ive just finished (kinda!) and IS conversion and im having some problems starting it up.

This is what ive done so far mate
Basically the electrics is all ok i think, the ignitioin comes on.Its got water in the rad,new oil, and i was told by karan to take the fuel relay out, then turn it over a couple times to get the oils going, then put the relay back in.
Did that, and it just kept turning over for like 5-10 seconds, if i held it on trying to get it to start a little puff of smoke came from around the battery, manifold area, but that might just be cos i was holding it on. It almost seemed as if it just wernt sparking etc.

So i swapped fuel lines, took plugs out and poured some oil down the cylinders and put new plugs in, then it seemed as if my battery was dead as ive been running lamps off it , it wernt doing much at all, went to turn over then just died, so i charged the battery over night but nothing has changed.


Ive been told to check if the plugs are sparking and i htink they all are, and to check the fuses to see if they look fcuked, im not getting mainbeam atm so i think one might be out.

Ive tried fuel relays off my old 318 and still nothing.

[Karan]

the smoke is cos u were loading the battery and drawing lots of current trying to start it for ages... dont worry bout that

try jump starting it.... dont turn it over for too long or ull shag starter!

u need to check wiring again

and make sure fuel pipes are on right way round....

Karan

[SwirlyE30]

Mate, does the filter pipe (feed) go to the top pipe on the engine, and the other pipe go to the one below it? I had them this way round and thought it was the right way, but not got anything.


I also looked down and some light smoke was comming from the manifold.I put sealant round it when ptting it on, would this be that getting hot?


My batterys good so will jumping it have much effect?

[Toby_Unna]

the smoke ain't stopping it starting, get it running first!

the line coming from the filter is the feed, the other is the return. the return generally goes on the pressure regulator (round metal lump on one end of the fuel rail) and the feed goes on the other end of the rail.

might not be imediately obvious on an iS though. not familiar with that engine!

take a plug out, are you getting a spark?
take the fuel feed line off, put in a bottle and crank it. are you getting fuel?

then check electrics.

when was the last time the engine ran?

[SwirlyE30]

Right. Ive so far checked only one plug guys, couldnt be arsed to do anymore got a bit annoyed. The plugs should be fine, but the coils could not be, but ill test the other 3 in a bit.

Wheenever i take the fuel lines off to try and change them round, petrol pours out the pipes (not sure if its one or both of them), so im sure petrol is getting in. I did try taking both pipes off and giving it some gas (only a few touches) but nothing came out.

The electrics-Well as far as i can see, the ignition comes on, everything works fine (pretty much), it turns over.


The car was last used about 4 weeks ago i think.


Really getting peaved off now, my lack of knowledge is getting annoying

[SwirlyE30]

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... highlight=


Just saw this, someone might remembe what solved the problem?




-- Ive just been told to pour some neat petrol (a small amount) down each cylinder to try and get it firing, and also somthing about the timming being out, but i cant quite see it as it was meant to be running sweet in the old car.

Anyones opinions?

[Karan]

timig cant be out

im sure its something simple tbh

it could possibly be the cam or rank sensor.... but unlikely if it ran fine before

Karan

[SwirlyE30]

Dad said we will try and give it a tow in a bit, get it moving and start it up, it seems like its so close to wanting to spark, its got fuel, and a spark, its just not going.

The ECU is form another is, but that should all work fine, the AFM im gonna see if my old one fits on and see if its ok as all my hoses etc on this one are fucked

[Karan]

is loom definitely all 100% connected up?

and the earth strap on the engine is on right?

[SwirlyE30]

Right. I had another IS over today and my dad, and his mate, both mechanics. We made sure it was earthed, changed over ECU's to see if mine was faulty, checked firing sequence, made sure relays and fuses were correct and in place, tried bump starting it by towing it, cleaned all spark plugs and tested each one for a spark and they had one. But still nothing.


My dad said even when he was trying to start whilst being towed it just wasnt firing up.

His recons the best bet is somthing like the crank sensor etc, somthing thats not giving the correct signal in to allow it to fire up.


Then Jamie325Sport came round, and was equally as clueless, but says he has a freind with a Diagnostic system, but couldnt get hold of him.


So im hoping its some kind of sensor, if its fueling, earthed, sparking, then it surely has to be an electrical problem. Ive made sure all wires are where they should be (apart from a small wire near the relays,with a yellow plastic joiner/connector,but i was told that that isnt relevant)


:(:(:( this sucks major ass

[Karan]

the cam sensor corroded on mine once...

its at the front of the head....]
held on by allen key, try removing it and cleaning it....

[Karan]

or better still swap it with a working one,.. i know demlot has a spare cos i gave him a brand new one!

Karan

[SwirlyE30]

Where does the other end attach to mate? had a quick look but it looks confusing. Recon the one from my M40 will work?

[Simon13]

Demlot here,

The M40 one will not fit as the M40 engine has the top timing pulse sensor attached to one of the spark plug leads.

Dude there must be something thats missing, i dont like the look of that wire bodge under the relays. You need to investigate that.

My phone is o ut of power.

A

[SwirlyE30]

Oh right, ill give mine a clean, and order one i guess. Ill take a pic of the wire mate, maybe someone will be able to shed some light on it, looks a bit dodgy

[SwirlyE30]

Right, well ive looked at on of the sensors (going into the head) and it looks fine. But the sensor down on the sump (crank sensor?) i think the allen bolt is shreaded, the head is fucked, so i cant really undo it now


Anyway, heres a picture of the unkown wire, PLEASE, if anyone knows or has seen where this goes on the IS, let me know, could at least put my mind at rest about it



btw, yes that is hose pipe on the TB-AFM, its a bodge, but i need to order the propper one. Shouldnt stop it firing up

[Martinaston]

Thats not an original plug so you will have to see what colour the wire is to find out where it goes.

If the head on the bolt for the crank sensor is ruined does that not tell you someone has been playing with it before ?

Use a pair of mole grips to get it off.

[SwirlyE30]

Yeh ill have to invistigate the wire a bit more.

Well the bolt was shit, but i htink i made it worse when i had a go as the sump gets in the way and i should have jacked it up and gone from underneath as i didnt get a propper grip.Only tried once, but i think it was a bit shit anyway.

Ive just got of the phone to E30Mark, and he said i should try jumping it from somthing else.


He basically said he thinks that it wouldnt spark unless the crank sensor was working (not sure why?), and that because its been sitting for a month or so the old oil could have jammed the hydraulic tappets so when i tried jumping it from my brothers sport and some puny leads (literally tiny) it might not have done much, so ill get my dads heavy duty ones and try it from his Chevy truck.

If not ill try a new sensor



If not.....Anyone want a broken IS? .....

[Martinaston]

If it has the power to turn the starter then that should be ok.

If your not sure then try plugging it into the mains

[SwirlyE30]

Well ill give it a go with my dads Chevy truck and leads mate, its got a big old engine and battery so it should be the best bet if thats what the problem is.


If not i think his freind has a compression tester that we could use to see if the tappets have stuck and the valves arnt as they should

[E30Mark]

like Martinaston said, that is NOT a BMW connector. Somebody has chopped up your loom in the past. The red portions on the loom beneath the relays look like they have been added too in the past. But if this lot worked OK wit the M40 lump in there then it should be OK i think. I have a spare loom should you need it....

Like i said earlier get your Dads jump leads and use the chevy to jump start this baby, hopefully it's just a hydraulic lock on the tappets.

You really need to compression test it to see what is going on (hold the throttle open when compression testing...)

Have you got the injector rail pluged in? connector goes into the black longish junction box above the starter motor, at the back.

I'll dig out a set of crank / cam sensors and post them if you need them tomorrow.

Best of luck!

[SwirlyE30]

Mark mate,all the wiring you see there is from the new engine, so i wasnt able to test it.But i was assured by Jon b it works, and Karan has been in the car.


Ill try and jump it tommorow, and also get hold of the compression tester.

Ill also take the plugs out and see whats going on down the cylinders.

Ill give the sensors a go mate and if their no good ill send them back to you.

Cant really see how the sensor stopped working though, unless it got damaged in transit etc

Cheers

[E30Mark]

Sam, we need to know what colour wire is going to that yellow connector. Pull back the back sleeve and see whats there. Chances are it will have two colours running down the outside of the wire, try to see which colour stripe is the widest.

[SwirlyE30]

ok mate ill have a look tomorow after work.Think i can remember it just being two black wires, but ill check and see if i can find out where it goes.
Cheers

[Demlotcrew]

That wire is bridging the two relays together, its very loose and its possible that the connection was broke while you took the relays out and in.

A

[SwirlyE30]

Oh right, ill check tommorow mate.Will it be a visual thing? If not then im not to clued up on checking wires etc.Ill give it a look though, and see where it goes, what its like etc.,



So near yet so far.....This bitch best get starting soon






Btw Andy, just noticed your sig mate, lol, if you hadnt of told me i would have been clueless!Cheers for all your help as well mate, your a legend

[Demlotcrew]

Cheers for all your help as well mate, your a legend

I think that What goes around comes around, so when it comes for me to get help, hopefully people will lend me a hand.

A

[Jon_Bmw]

Right. Ive so far checked only one plug guys, couldnt be arsed to do anymore got a bit annoyed. The plugs should be fine, but the coils could not be, but ill test the other 3 in a bit.

Wheenever i take the fuel lines off to try and change them round, petrol pours out the pipes (not sure if its one or both of them), so im sure petrol is getting in. I did try taking both pipes off and giving it some gas (only a few touches) but nothing came out.

The electrics-Well as far as i can see, the ignition comes on, everything works fine (pretty much), it turns over.


The car was last used about 4 weeks ago i think.

Correct me if i'm wrong but have you found out which one is the fuel feed like Toby said. When starting mine M20 the other day i had the same problem, fuel came out of both when taking them off. Put the two lines in two different cups, take the coil lead off, turn ignition on and crank engine you will soon find out which is the fuel feed and return.

Then as toby said the return is the one which connects onto the fuel regulator and the feed straight to the injector rail.

Hope this helps!



Edited twice as i'm incompetant with quotes

[SwirlyE30]

Yes mate, cheers anyway, but ive done the fuel lines qutie a few times,and got the feed in the righ place.


Might be able to get someone whos got a Diagnostic for the E30, not sure yet though.




Andy, thats cool mate. If you ever need a hand im up for helping ya!

[SwirlyE30]

Right. Ive just unraveled all of the wiring and taken some pictures of where this wire goes.


Hopefully some of you electrical ones might be able to help.



This one shows the start of the wire--(the yellow part on the far right)

With one end going into the fuel relay, and the other (coloured red with dots) carrying on. The colour of the wires going into the relay are red and white.




This next picture shows the other wire (which is also red and white) carrying on, and you can see the other one going into the relay in the bottom.




The last picture shows the other red and white wire going off into the black thing, (circled blue) Not got a clue what this is, if its just somthing to keep the wires in, or some kind of return.It basically has the wires going in the bottom and the top is covered up. From there im not sure where that wire goes, it may be one of the red and white ones that comes back out.

Does this help anyone?


Im thinking.The IS normally had a factory fitted alarm, but i thought that Jon B said when it was on his car it had no alarm. Was just thinking, if it did then maybe as mine didnt, its somthing to do with that?

[Brianmoooore]

As far as I can see from the photos, these things in the wiring are just the rubber insulating covers that BMW puts on soldered joints in the wiring.
Red/white wire in this part of the car is 12V+ supply to various things when the main DME relay is energiised.

[Brianmoooore]

One of these red/whites should go to the fuel pump relay coil, pin 86, so that when the other end of the coil, 85, is earthed by the ECU, the fuel pump relay contacts close and feed power from the battery, (red, pin 30) to the fuel pump via its fuse in the fusebox.

[SwirlyE30]

Ah right, cheers mate.So it should be there.But im unsure why its not connected to anything the other end


Got someone comming round tomorow to plug in some diagnostic equiptment so hopefully somthing will come up

[E30-Andy]

When you turn the engine over and it does not start can you take a spark plug out and see if it is wet with fuel? If they are bone dry like mine were then you will know you have a fueling problem (or not).

[E30Mark]

As Brian has said, most of those red/white wires are for the fueling / injectors. You need to get hold of a multimeter and check you are getting power to the injectors.

I can get some readings off my chariot if you need anything to compare yours to, let me know if you want me to rip my car apart for you!. Worst case as i mentioned before i do have a spare engine bay loom if you need it.