Rerouting brake and fuel lines

[chips]

Everything I do as part of my (slow) track car build I have tried to make as close to MSA regs as possible so that if I want to use it to compete in the future I won't have much work to do to bring it up to spec. So while the engine is out and the fuel tank, rear subframe, propshaft and exhaust are off I want to rerout the brake and fuel lines through the interior of the car, and I have a few questions;

1. What is the best route for the fuel and brake lines? I'm assuming along the sides of the transmission tunnel where they are least likely to be damaged in an impact?

2. Whats the best material to make brake lines from?

3. Whats the best material to use for fuel lines when running them through a car?

4. Whats the best way of fixing them to the body?

[gcs325i]

Without any knowledge of the MSA regs but built a few stockcars and offroaders in my time heres a few ideas.

1. tunnel is probably the best place to site them also is with-in reach for a in line fuel cut off.
2. copper brake pipe reasonably cheap and easy to fit/replace
3. i used 8mm copper pipe for fuel lines in the stock cars but flexi stainless lines could be used depends on budget/ reg's
4. P clips with rubber inserts fixed with short self drilling tappers would be the best bet

[billgatese30]

personally i would prefer fuel lines on the outside as if one ruptures i'd rather it wasn't spraying me in fuel, i'd rather it was dumping it outisde

brake lines can easliy be ran inside the car

[agent006]

personally i would prefer fuel lines on the outside as if one ruptures i'd rather it wasn't spraying me in fuel, i'd rather it was dumping it outisde

Me too. The last thing you want is a fire inside the car.

[chips]

personally i would prefer fuel lines on the outside as if one ruptures i'd rather it wasn't spraying me in fuel, i'd rather it was dumping it outisde

brake lines can easliy be ran inside the car

Yep thats a good point. Where do rally cars run the fuel lines?

Anybody have any idea what the MSA has to say in the blue book?

[JimmyC]

Fuel lines can be run in the car, but there is a specific spec on the pipe/connectors I think from memory

We have a few cars racing with us which have done this, the come into the car by the b pillar, go around the tunnel and through the bulkhead

Again from memory the pipe alone is over £200 quid to meet spec???

I wanted to do mine, just couldn't justify the cost for the small benefit

[chips]

Thanks Jimmy, I thought you would probably know what was needed. I'll stick to routing the brakes through the cabin then, there seems to be too many disadvantages of routing the fuel through.

Maybe I won't even do that. If it's not mandatory then I see no real benefit.

[JimmyC]

There is no regs for brakes or fuel pipes to be moved from standard, same goes for the tank

If it was me I wouldn't bother

[chips]

I can see the obvious benefit for a rally car, but for a track focused car I don't see any advantage. I'll leave em where they are.

On a similar note, where are fuel cut-off solenoids usually fitted? At the tank end or the engine end?

[Brian28]

Hi, for a race (rather than rally) car there is no need for solenoids. Never did any rallying so not a clue if that's what you are building for. If you are building for circuit racing, the regs for the series that you are building for are more important than the MSA regs. MSA are usually so vague as to be meaningless, also a lot of stuff is recommendation or "can do" rather than "must do". The specific series regs may not allow some mods, even if they are in the MSA blue book, usually to try and keep costs down a bit. Eg seam welding is allowed in some race series, not others. Inside brake lines allowed in some series, not in others (usually not allowed in road based series), etc.

Cheers, good luck
Brian

[Joeey]

I have both fuel and brake lines run through the inside of my track car (have fuel tank in boot), though it was done by the previous owner so cant comment much on it apart from it looks a pain to do.

[e21Jason]

Hi Chris

Blue book regs ( do you have a copy) fuel lines need to be protected if run through the cabin ie in another tube, best to be on the outside, brake lines are OK on the inside.

Also small world I did not know you were a building services CAD guy, I was telling Kierran who has come work with about Knockhill on Sunday and he said Yeah Chris I used ot work with is build an old bmw race and the penny dropped.

Jason

[chips]

Hi Jason, cheers muchly. I'll leave them on the outside then. Much less hassle and the existing lines are all in pretty good nick.

Ah, so you're a WW chap. I already knew you were an engineer, are you M or E? Ciaran's a top bloke. I suppose you must work with Mike too? I used to work with Him a few years back. I was in the pub with Him a few weeks ago for an ex colleages leaving night.

Small world indeed. Need to get together sometime for some garage talk or a pint or summut.

[e21Jason]

Hi chris

I work with Mike also but he's packed down to london a lot these days, I meche so yeah we can have pint and I will bring the blue book and a lot od m3 parts for to covet

Jason

[chips]

Yeah I wouldn't mind a look at the blue book sometime. I need to get a cage sorted at some point and that needs to be to spec.