M30 3.5L or M52 2.8 L ??

[bss325i]

E30's struggle to deploy properly 220bhp in alot of conditions on the road let alone 500bhp.

THIS!

An E30 chassis with its semi trailing arm rear axle and short wheel base has its limitations.

300+ bhp from an S5x s plenty in one and a V10 is a pointless conversion imo, more a conversion to do just to say you've done it/pub bragging rights/willy waving.

[jimbom30cab]

Bang on there Baz, and I think I'm not alone if I said its more enjoyable to thrash a car knowing you got the best out of it and drove well than worry about spinning off each bend.

[pony]

Sam supercharged (S54) E30 M3 I think he said he had 460bhp or 560bhp
Can't remember which
Not sure how accurate his speedo is but he did hit "indicated" 130mph in A406 and there were other cars so weren't like he had an empty road
After that f0000k M5X they feel slow!

Just to add he had good traction
Quality tyres Michelin Pilot Sports
And brakes AP Racing I think ?

[bss325i]

Sams car will have cost more than many peoples annual income!

His front brakes alone would cost the same a well put together M52 conversion so its not really a good comparison in a discussion about M52 vs M30.

[pony]

But man that was FASSSTTTTT
Is he well not seen him about ? Hope is well with him and he ain't been doing too much show boating

[bss325i]

Yes the car is insanely quick but in the wrong hands (ie you) would be leathal!

[pony]

LOL

[DanThe]

Pony I had my home built M52B28 off the clocks, top speed means nothing...

The 2.8 is a perfect match for the E30, its light, torquey and the power is just right, you can stick the boot in and rev the hell out of it and the chassis soaks it up perfectly.

My 3.2 Alpina is the wrong side of useable power/torque, its really easy to get out of shape, get on a damp road and its useless.

[magpie]

Want a fast car then the best way would be to buy a fast car, bite the bullet and get one it may not be an e30 of course but if it is an e30 you want then..


yes the options you have here are good but not fast. For speed and power you would much rather want to invest into a m5 engine out of an e60 m5. Put that in your e30 and enjoy a very fast e30.

please keep in mind if it is speed that you are after and power then this by far would out run both you 2.8 and 3.0 - 0-150mph.

i'd rather have this ...it has more BHP



and a lot easier to fit

[scott320i]

I think people haven't read the very first post I put up.... m52 2.8 or M30 3.5.... Couple of small cheap mods is all I'm going yo do
To buy an M5 motor or anything bigger and better in oz is stupidly expensive ! I'm not after a fast car 3.5 power is enough
If I wanted a race car I'd just buy one

[magpie]

how is it going to cost me more than £400 or what corners am i cutting ?

i don't get it i have a good complete spare m52 that owes me nothing .

Andy's m54 3.0L crank,rods,pistons £175

elring or reinze head gasket £30 , sump gasket £25,head bolts £28 ,valve stem oil seals £18 < ? m54 crank shells ?

that's where i'm at pricing so far ....

[scott320i]

Everything costs more in oz
If I could do it all for that much I would

[jimbom30cab]

Does the crank drop straight in the Mick or is there any machining required?

[magpie]

Does the crank drop straight in the Mick or is there any machining required?

as far as i know it all just bolts straight up .

[reggid]

just wait for an engine to come up, it will be cheaper than any S5X engine thats for sure, the servicing costs are cheaper than any S5X engine also plus they're no where near as highly strung. They're very grunty and if you were going to all that effort of converting to 24v power why settle for a stock engine? I wouldn't but thats me.
You could always build a 3.2 one for mucho cheapness. Mick you'll never build that engine for £400 without cutting corners
If your on about cost Reggid that M20 in your car came cheap did it tucka? like anything in cars its always expensive

I’d personally never do a standardish 24V M50/M52 or US S52 style not enough gains for me over an old school fresh m20 stroker than has been screwed together well. Last 2.8 M20 I saw still on the AFM and motronic did 230bhp (197whp) with a ported head and 274 regrind cam 10:1 CR.

I don’t have issue spending money on stuff I want but realize that others do have a more stringent budget and given an extra 10% performance doubles the cost it is basically a case of diminishing returns. Hence using the 3.2L guts makes sense as i gather its near enough to being free in that part of the world and the aftermarket world is huge in the USA so plenty scope to improve things.

The difference between a 3.3/3.4L and 3.2L bottom end when the head, exhaust, induction is the same is going to be 6% so you need and entire Alpina donk from a B3 3.3 or B3S which are built to make use of the extra cubes and then some, but they are $$$ the engines were well over 3k a year or so ago and only 1 or 2 came up each year so you’d be lucky to get one and need some patience to get a good one.

[M3SAM]

Yes the car is insanely quick but in the wrong hands (ie you) would be leathal!

Even the fooking STIG would have trouble taming my big white bitch Barry!

[leeparkes]

IMO they are two totally different engines, 24v is smooth, light, refined and efficient, they are a good engine but they need to be wound right up before they get moving properly.
An M30 is a noisy old slugger, big cc with 2 valve head design, heavy, late 60's roots etc..but IMO they are more fun to drive on the road!
Power delivery on them is nuts, standard M30's make about 200 lb ft @ 1.5-2k and you dont have to wait for the power to 'come on. It will pull out of a corner hard from 2k and rev right up to 6k with pretty much a constant wall of torque. A M52 wont, stamp on the accelerator at 2k and nothing really happens till round 5k.
I do need to get my E30 weighed again now its M52'd but in all honesty it dont really feel any different on the road, infact when it was M30'd the car felt more planted! especially at speed!

If i had 2 E30's side by side one M52'd and one M30'd and wanted to go for a blat about...
Id grab the keys to the M30.

However that quote is if both engines are in fine fettle and still make factory power, many M30's dont

[Simon13]

how is it going to cost me more than £400 or what corners am i cutting ?

i don't get it i have a good complete spare m52 that owes me nothing .

Andy's m54 3.0L crank,rods,pistons £175

elring or reinze head gasket £30 ,crank shells ?

that's where i'm at pricing so far ....

you want pistons rings, and a re hone to the block you using, front and rear crank oil seals. Conrod bolts, big end shells as they will have wear no doubt. If they're really worn the crank might need a grind - £10 a journal is a rough guide.

Your a pikey so a real motorsport thing to do is re use the main end shells if they mint but only if they're mint. Oil pump?

[reggid]

no use cheaping out on simple items while the engine is in bits gaskets , seals, bearings, hardware etc all add up. is the head in good nick?

[magpie]

how is it going to cost me more than £400 or what corners am i cutting ?

i don't get it i have a good complete spare m52 that owes me nothing .

Andy's m54 3.0L crank,rods,pistons £175

elring or reinze head gasket £30 ,crank shells ?

that's where i'm at pricing so far ....

you want pistons rings, and a re hone to the block you using, front and rear crank oil seals. Conrod bolts, big end shells as they will have wear no doubt. If they're really worn the crank might need a grind - £10 a journal is a rough guide.

Your a pikey so a real motorsport thing to do is re use the main end shells if they mint but only if they're mint. Oil pump?

i'm a pikey ? ha ha go to bed sunna get some kip lol

[jon-m42]

You honestly think that will be the fastest?

Yes indeed Id think its the fastest between the M30 and M52.

The only way you would allow for comparison to take place is by splashing out more money on the slower engines M30 and M52 carrying out modifications turbos, cams, pistons, remaps and the list goes on.

Just by completing an accurate engine and running gear transplant into an E30 using all three engines, Id clearly think that the newer M5 engine would easily leave the oldies in its dust.

That my friend is just the nature of larger and more powerful engines vs older and less powerful engines.

[ross_jsy]

You would have to be a retard to try and draw comparisons between the swaps though. £2k versus god knows what

[magpie]

thanks for the list Simon ,i've been looking into it and can get the re hone done £45 + vat ,crank seals around £20 each ,conrod bolts around £20 set ..piston ring set is gonna be the most costly around £240 ish unless i can find some cheaper oem ones ...

if the clearances are good on the mains then i'll maybe use them or probably just spend around another £100 on those .

it's adding up lol

[HairyScreech]

If this is going into an alu block without iron sleeves then beware of honing. You can end up with a soft block.

If its an iron block or sleeves then just whack a dingle berry hone down it to bust the glaze and leave it alone, a poor/cheap hone job will be worse than the wear patches and the bores will still be pretty good on a BMW block.

Too many people go down the route of a full hone and then don't run it in properly ending up with a worse engine that if they had just glaze busted it and let it be.

If you were doing a full rebuild with new pistons and new rings then perhaps a full torque plate hone would be justified.
but lets face it we are talking about cheap bolt together beaters here.

[ross_jsy]

What are your opinions on torque plates for honing?

I'll be getting my blocked bored to 84.5mm due to scuffing on one of the cylinders and obviously honed but I have read so much conflicting information on their use. Plus I don't really want to have to buy one as they aren't the cheapest of things for a single use

[magpie]

i just asked a question on ebay if some piston rings they have are BMW oem or after market,below is the reply

spare parts, NPR Germany <<<?

and a linky

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e12052.m4 ... AGB%3A1123


are these any good ?

[HairyScreech]

To hone properly the block needs a torque plate 100%. the face of the block and the bores will deflect in a pattern dependent on the stud positions and the torque.
If you want a perfect job then hot fluid needs to be pumped through the block at running temp to expand the block.

If bores are perfectly round when cold and untorqued then you can be sure that they wont be when torqued and hot.

Will it matter on a slaggy road car? no.
If your going to waste money on something not needed then at least double the cost and do it right.


Rings look fine, I think they are the same as I have in my 70k mile rebuild, ecp supply them I think.

[ross_jsy]

You wouldn't know of anyone in the UK who could rent a torque plate for an m50 do you then?

Not quite a thrown together m50b30. I'm using low comp Wiseco pistons and forged rods so I don't mind spending the money if I have to

[magpie]

To hone properly the block needs a torque plate 100%. the face of the block and the bores will deflect in a pattern dependent on the stud positions and the torque.
If you want a perfect job then hot fluid needs to be pumped through the block at running temp to expand the block.

If bores are perfectly round when cold and untorqued then you can be sure that they wont be when torqued and hot.

Will it matter on a slaggy road car? no.
If your going to waste money on something not needed then at least double the cost and do it right.


Rings look fine, I think they are the same as I have in my 70k mile rebuild, ecp supply them I think.

so are you saying a re hone is not needed ?

thanks for the input on the rings

[jimbom30cab]

Just do a light hone if the bores are glazed Mick, if not don't worry about it

[rob0r]

IMO they are two totally different engines, 24v is smooth, light, refined and efficient, they are a good engine but they need to be wound right up before they get moving properly.
An M30 is a noisy old slugger, big cc with 2 valve head design, heavy, late 60's roots etc..but IMO they are more fun to drive on the road!
Power delivery on them is nuts, standard M30's make about 200 lb ft @ 1.5-2k and you dont have to wait for the power to 'come on. It will pull out of a corner hard from 2k and rev right up to 6k with pretty much a constant wall of torque. A M52 wont, stamp on the accelerator at 2k and nothing really happens till round 5k.
I do need to get my E30 weighed again now its M52'd but in all honesty it dont really feel any different on the road, infact when it was M30'd the car felt more planted! especially at speed!

If i had 2 E30's side by side one M52'd and one M30'd and wanted to go for a blat about...
Id grab the keys to the M30.

However that quote is if both engines are in fine fettle and still make factory power, many M30's dont

Lee's had both /thread

[magpie]

Just do a light hone if the bores are glazed Mick, if not don't worry about it

ok so if the bores look good and unglazed do i need to buy new rings ?

it's all getting confusing and technical

[ross_jsy]

Arguably not if they aren't worn. However since your engine is apart and they aren't massively expensive I would. Remember to gap them properly

[jimbom30cab]

Spot on Ross

[reggid]

given how critical ring seal is on a performance engine i always get opinion of a pro on honing, rings etc as its something you'd not want to have to redo because of cutting corners and what not.