E30 wet driving update

[JimmyC]

lack of drive will make the back end light and happy.

When you lift off the throttle or dip the clutch you change the weight distribution of the car, under power wieght is over the rear wheels. Lift off or remove drive weight moves to the front and the rear is light which equals tail out or spin.

This idea work's for FWD car's as it's the drive wheel's that send the weight to the front as it's them stopping the car and making the back light.

This is probably gonna sound silly but here i go....................

Imagine you are pushing a shopping trolley and you are the drive wheel's as you are pushing.
If someone all of a sudden stop's you at the front the rear of the trolley will rear up.
If you was to all of a sudden stop the trolley really fast you would be pulling on the trolley, not making it lighter.

If you let the rear of the car swing out whilst coasting round corner's/roundabout's then there is no control as it is not driving thus causing more of an opportunity to loose control of the car as it will snatch when into drive again.
Kicking the clutch only send's you out of drive for a split sec so you are still in control.

You will alway's have more control over any car when it is in drive, not coasting

you completely lost me there, ignore the clutch bit for now, and what I said works for rear wheel drive. as soon as you lift in bend you make the rear end light, you un load it. this makes the weight move forward and basically you on a pivot around the front wheels.

Same as actually applying the brakes. You are pulling as you lift (like you say with your trolley) but that will cause the rear to lift and the front to dip.

blimey i'm confussing myself now! Thats what I've been taught anyway, and it works in practice in the RWD exige

[jonbuoy]

Everybody has there own way of doing it so each to there own imo.
In my mk4 escort that way worked and i tried it the same way in my Bm but i just could'nt keep full control, i'm still not brilliant now as i don't get much oppotunity to practise but will keep going

[tomstickland]

Well, if you lift off the throttle slightly then you can induce lift off oversteer but you are still driving the rear wheels. So must be good.

[Globulator]

i have no expirence driving one of the old Porsche 911's, but i read that those cars were a real handful in the rain and Dry!!
If you could handle a old porsche at speed on corners , you were a proper driver. I once read a reporter saying it "was more of a case of slideing the car into corners than actually turning into them..."

Actually the later 80's 911's handling is more myth than reality. People go on about the weight distribution - not realising that besides being more evenly balanced than the Lotus Elise (60/40 vs 61/39) - these cars where also raced and were extremely fast.

So how can an extremely fast race car be dodgy on corners? Simple - the same reason why it's easy to spin an Elise or an E30:

lift-off oversteer.

The key with the 911 (the turbo anyway - I'm sure the carrera is similar) is to keep your foot firmly planted on the floor (or at least the power down in the turbo - you might not want all 330bhp). The E30 and the 911 are exactly the same in this respect - the back hunkers down and round they go. In a 911 in the dry - no matter what speed you do - as long as you get the car turning nicely and gripping those big 245mm back tyres (post 1986) nothings ever going to let go!!
In the wet you've got issues with wheelspin - I've tried to catch a fishtailing 911 and ended up dumping the clutch to catch it - but the E30 has to be raked to do that (with my tyres anyway) and the LSD makes everything quite smooth and predictable =as long as you keep the power down=.

If you don't like the wet then go skid pan training - it is unbeatable, and if you want to avoid aquaplaning then decent tread and good tyre pressure is the way to go - followed by doing _nothing_ if you do plane.

Space, as always is your friend

[tomstickland]

I've been out in the wet again tonight and I like it. 99.9% of the time.

[astondg]

I've been out in the wet again tonight and I like it. 99.9% of the time.

I was out in the rain lat night too, but I didn't really like it. It wasn't too bad in the more city areas with wider roads and lower speed limits (but even there I don't feel completely comfortable) but once I got towards my place the roads are dodgy and I couldn't use high beam because other cars were around and there are always animals and stuff around that I have to watch out for. All of that combined with my uneasyness about my driving ability means I am feel a bit uncomfortable.

If you don't like the wet then go skid pan training - it is unbeatable

Done that, and 2 years of dirt racing (where they water the track = mud). A lot of time all that really does is make me feel worse because I realise again how slippery it can be and how easy it would be to loose control. I do feel reasonably comfortable on the track because there is room for mistakes and everything the car is doing is because I made it do that. It's on the road that I have the problem, stuff happens unexpectedly and there is little or no room for error.

Aston

[tomstickland]

I've got to say that I really hate a combination of dusk, damp roads and too many cars coming towards me so I'm being dazzled. The dark and being dazzled means that you can't see complete corners properly so have to slow down really.

[Simon13]

Well, if you lift off the throttle slightly then you can induce lift off oversteer but you are still driving the rear wheels. So must be good.

they type of springs u have helps on lift off. I've never really tried it but i noticed it at the ring on some of the fast bends 90mph plus, when u thought u were going into the trees on one of the off camber corners.

Demlot thinks also that the H&R 35 springs are great for lift off too

I think when cornering fast u either keep the throttle on or off no imbertween as this upsets the car too, also only brake in a straight line.

So if u think u are going to fast grin and bear it and i u will be fine as shatting it will make u come unstuck/crash!

[tomstickland]

I think when cornering fast u either keep the throttle on or off no imbertween as this upsets the car too,

Hmm, lift off oversteer requires lifting off the throttle a bit; on a FWD car you can controll the car's angle by adjusting the throttle. The E30 seems to be the same. Hence applying some power is good; just removing all power is going to be a step input and can't be good. Unless you want to unbalance the car. So I'd question what you're saying here. Either that or I misunderstand you.

[JimmyC]

I think when cornering fast u either keep the throttle on or off no imbertween as this upsets the car too,

Hmm, lift off oversteer requires lifting off the throttle a bit; on a FWD car you can controll the car's angle by adjusting the throttle. The E30 seems to be the same. Hence applying some power is good; just removing all power is going to be a step input and can't be good. Unless you want to unbalance the car. So I'd question what you're saying here. Either that or I misunderstand you.

staying on or "imbetween" is good, taking off is bad, very bad

[ady786]

i had a moment like that i was going in my 325ise round a roundabout came 2 the exit gave it some it spun around 180"