B3 3.2 Touring its suddenly getting old

[Dezzy]

If you didn't have the worst case of Alpinaitas known to man, and had finished the 2door. My advice would be throw a know to be good M52 in there. Drive it as a daily, while doing a full rebuild on the pina Donk. With of course a certain someone's help, so as not to receive the A tax over the counter bumming.

As it's you just throw the head on and see what's what!

Oh and ffs finish the 2 door.

[e301988325i]

I know it doesn't really make sense but i didn't buy it to worry about the big milege, i bought it because its a "happening turd" and i want it to be the best i can make it and have some fun in using an ultra rare uber wagon as a daily.

You bought it cheaping knowing work needed doing, this is crunch time!!!!!

[bss325i]

As its going to be a long term thing, bolt it back together with the standard head then you can run it to see if the rest of the engine is ok. £800 sheets is a lot to spunk on the unknown and im sure that could be used else where on the two door soon?

Start using it as a daily, get the two door finished then worry about bolting a worked head on in the summer when you're bored of polishing the two door as you itch for something to turn spanners on.

Its only a head gasket and bolts wasted, sort of.

[HairyScreech]

iv been keeping an eye on this for a while, firstly, nice turd, when im back on the English side of the bridge i might have to pop over and take a look.

my take on the head is thus, alpina will have done a very good job, although they do know what they are doing there is no free lunch, so some thought has to be taken as to what they were aiming for when porting the heads.
the 3.2 alpina is not some all out power motor, thats the job of the s50, so i can only assume that the goal of the engine was to give a healthy hike in power while still being happy lower in the range and not treading on the toes of the m3 engine'd cars too much.
which at 260hp ish i would say is objective done.

now in order to do that the head would have to be a mix of the practical for broad power bands and the realistic for cost.
by the look of it the valves are standard size with a 30 degree back cut on the inlet and have a multi angle seat on both inlet and exhaust. (obviously a 46mm bore here would allow/require for larger valves for highest output).
the ports also look to have had the surface finish massaged, the center divider has been knife edged and had some relief around the roof, guides have been smoothed in as best as possible with some area increase either side of the guide to maintain csa.
it would also appear that some kind of 70/60/65/75/80/who knows cut has been made from the seat into the throat.

its all good but its not the last word in power, which is clear from there intentions, so i dont see why it cannot be improved upon provided a sacrifice of some kind is made, most likely a small amount of power low down.

so 40hp? well thats another 15%, its quite a bit but i dont think its impossible, although as said it would come with a price.

(disclaimer - this is all based from the photos and is all as best as i can see without measuring anything, its also all imo so take it as you will.)

i would suggest sticking the standard head on it with just the multi angles done on the seats to suit the alpina valves and a bit of split rod with 400 grit in it to run over the ports, this you could do yourself with out real fear of buggering up the port dimensions, just use the split rod to smooth the casting surface.
go with that for a cheep £240 head rebuild and see how she is.
get it on the roller when its done and see what it makes, i would bet £10 its down on power by no more than 15hp. (around 245-250)
when thats done consider if its really worth the cost to go the whole hog on this car or if your willing to make some of that power back else where thats cheaper.
if the answer is yes i want the works done, then you can sell that worked head for a nice return, probably the full £240 it cost you to have it done.

on another note, is the exhaust valve in the middle of the picture of the 2.5 head missing a lump?

[DanThe]

Originality is bolllloks, welded head vs solid head, its a no brainer.

Save the head work for later, sort the rest and put it on a dyno just to see what the alpina head work is worth

[HairyScreech]

^good argument there as well, infact, what he said, then do the multi angle seats and test it, then go the whole hog on it, just to see like.

[glenn]

bolt it back together with the standard head then you can run it to see if the rest of the engine is ok. £800 sheets is a lot to spunk on the unknown and im sure that could be used else where on the two door soon?

Start using it as a daily, get the two door finished then worry about bolting a worked head on in the summer when you're bored of polishing the two door as you itch for something to turn spanners on.

i agree with barry.

[B7]

bolt it back together with the standard head then you can run it to see if the rest of the engine is ok. £800 sheets is a lot to spunk on the unknown and im sure that could be used else where on the two door soon?

Start using it as a daily, get the two door finished then worry about bolting a worked head on in the summer when you're bored of polishing the two door as you itch for something to turn spanners on.

i agree with barry.

Makes sense to me an' all. I hadn't noted the mileage at 180k. I'd say for the price of a head gasket and bolts, shake it down with a standard head and make sure it's worth spending the sheets on.

[Simon13]

Indeed the zone collective come together, bollocks i'm just gonna lap the valves and bolt it together. Start this weekend, Barry get me the tools please! I'm itching at it too to be honest. I could take the C2 touring off the road for the winter which is a good idea and nail this B3 around with the Bronzit winter tyre miester for the real horrid weather.

Dan ECU came back today so thanks.

Off to ECP and GSF then get the other bits bought.

Hairyreach, come over any time, the valve is ok not chipped!

[bss325i]

Text me tomorrow to remind me bert!

[Kos]

being an auto, the extra grunt is lost and i doubt it will be driven that hard to notice the loss of power.

i'm thinking right now, i'd throw a 2.8 in there and leave the alpina donk to one side and worry about it later , maybe freshening up the bottom end ?

fuck pulling a head off later down the line and replacing it with a re worked head. build the engine once and put it in when the time is right

[bss325i]

Its more work to change an engine than a head.

F*ck throwing a 2.8 in there, it means he's got to go an buy one!

[Kos]

changing the head is more costly , the HD sets are not cheap for these engines are they ?

but engine in/out is a weekends work, no money to be wasted.

if he had the 2.8 from his last turd, then there would be a case for doing it this way

much like his 2 door where he spent money on the head for a car which is also a high mileage one albeit fully fully restored there is a case to do it on this turd as well

you spent a load on the B10, getting that just right, this car has more of a value so by that logic and knowing himself that its been done right, its worth doing

while originality is important, restoring and re building to an equal standard shows care and maintains the value and integrity of the car. the performance thing if noticeable could make or break the sale later down the line

simon went through the pain of sleeving his block on the 2 door to keep the original engine and integrity of the 2 door C2, when others said he was better of boring an re stamping a 320i block. simon chose the right option there in my opinion

while it is 800 quid, its also the right thing to do

[HairyScreech]

just to be clear as that was a terrible explanation before, i meant the rh middle one here.
the dark chamber makes me think its had a misfire/loss of compression on that one?

[Andyboy]

if he had the 2.8 from his last turd, then there would be a case for doing it this way

Did the silver takkker get fragged then?

[Morat]

As its going to be a long term thing, bolt it back together with the standard head then you can run it to see if the rest of the engine is ok. £800 sheets is a lot to spunk on the unknown and im sure that could be used else where on the two door soon?

Start using it as a daily, get the two door finished then worry about bolting a worked head on in the summer when you're bored of polishing the two door as you itch for something to turn spanners on.

Its only a head gasket and bolts wasted, sort of.

sounds good to me!

[Kos]

if he had the 2.8 from his last turd, then there would be a case for doing it this way

Did the silver takkker get fragged then?

I believe so

[Andyboy]

if he had the 2.8 from his last turd, then there would be a case for doing it this way

Did the silver takkker get fragged then?

I believe so

Thank fcuk. That poor bastard needed taking to the vets.

[Demlotcrew]

just to be clear as that was a terrible explanation before, i meant the rh middle one here.
the dark chamber makes me think its had a misfire/loss of compression on that one?

Looks like a chipped valve to me.

Andrew

[Demlotcrew]

Si if my input is worth anything, i would have the head repaired. Todays technology for repairs are very good. Seriously look in to it, you wont be disappointed.

Just a quick google and i found these guys.

http://www.aluminiumweld.co.uk/vintagevehicles.htm

[Rodderz]

For me the stamped Alpina head is a huge part of the cars originality! I would rather put £800 into recovering the Alpina head than spending it on another head!

[Kos]

For me the stamped Alpina head is a huge part of the cars originality! I would rather put £800 into recovering the Alpina head than spending it on another head!

i think the original head is beyond help and the 800 quid is going towards re working another head to a similar spec to the original alpina one

[Demlotcrew]

Kos,

The truth is no one actually knows if its beyond help, i honestly cannot see why it cannot be repaired. Its only cast.

Andrew

[Kos]

agreed

but what ever he does, he needs to make sure ahead that goes on is up to spec

[bss325i]

changing the head is more costly , the HD sets are not cheap for these engines are they ?

but engine in/out is a weekends work, no money to be wasted.

if he had the 2.8 from his last turd, then there would be a case for doing it this way

No, the head gasket isnt that expensive and the head bolts are peanuts.

Changing the engine is a bit more involved than you think. For a start the car is auto so that brings its own extra work over a manual car and the correct gearbox oil is nearly £20 a litre so five litres of that and you're up to the cost of the HG.

Not only that, fitting a 2.8 would require changing the DME, the EWS module, the Ignition barrel and key.

And then to do all that again when the Alpina engine is rebuilt. Long!

much like his 2 door where he spent money on the head for a car which is also a high mileage one albeit fully fully restored there is a case to do it on this turd as well

you spent a load on the B10, getting that just right, this car has more of a value so by that logic and knowing himself that its been done right, its worth doing

His 2dr E30 has only done circa 120k and is worth a lot more than this turd.

I'm sorry but where have i documented on what i have spent on my B10?

while originality is important, restoring and re building to an equal standard shows care and maintains the value and integrity of the car. the performance thing if noticeable could make or break the sale later down the line

simon went through the pain of sleeving his block on the 2 door to keep the original engine and integrity of the 2 door C2, when others said he was better of boring an re stamping a 320i block. simon chose the right option there in my opinion

while it is 800 quid, its also the right thing to do

Lets get something clear, i never said bolt the standard head on and leave it at that. Of course originality is important, hence why i said do the head later on.

The bottom line is to spend £800 on the head now or to waste time putting a 2.8 in this car, a car he hasn't even driven yet is pure madness!

The gearbox could be f*cked for all he knows or some other costly thing to put right.

The prudent option is to bolt it back together with a standard head and Alpina cams, get and MOT on it as reassess the best route to take with the car, a car might i ad which is an E36 which has done nigh on 190k and Alpina or not, will never be worth a mint despite is apparent condition so far.

Simon didn't buy this turd to diligently restore, he bought it to save it from some car trader fool and fix it up into an interesting daily.

[Rodderz]

It's an Alpina that needs an Alpina head fitted to retain the value and originality of the conversion. The E24 Alpina I had didn't have a stamped Alpina head on it so I knew it wasn't original, I couldn't live with that so i sold it. Had it been original I don't think I would ever have parted with it.

[Simon13]

right lots to say here, the valve wasn't chipped. The head or valves on the dirty head pictured cam from a nikasil failed engine. It was hammered the best i've seen, a huge thick blue smoke stream it used to leave up the road from cold!!!

Thing is Kos my 2 door isn't high milege really 119,000 is intergalactic. 187,000 like the car in question is however! I didn't realise i drive my cars slowly either!

Put yourselfs in my position, you have an alpina head thats cracked, been repaired fitted. The cars not even covered 50 or even 20 miles and its gone again. Would you give it another chance? To me as much as i like to have an alpina head i've got 2 E30's where they both have suffered cracked heads. One head is welded and ok the other was missing when i bought the car. If i didn't tell you or have this thread no one would be the wiser. Its unfortunate yes but this £45,000 car has come along way down the food chain to someone like me who lets be frank have stopped this car suffering a far worse fate than i'm giving it.

Taking the head off one of these M50 engined cars isn't like an M20/40 where its literally off in 2 hours. And literally 2 hours back on. The engine isn't coming out full stop chances are the bottom end is good as its auto.

[Kos]

OK barry

you're right

but a question

how much is the head gasket and associated parts ? it is still an extra cost later down the line


while it may be agrro to change the engine, so is pulling apart an engine that is working fine to do a job that can be done now. the car is off the road and its costing you more money and time

he bought the car because he likes it and based on the fact the rest of the condition is good and it can be a nice car. which is why you bought he B10.

did your B10 really need all the top end work ? some money has been spent on it, and i'm sure the cost of what you have done so far is mounting up. will you get it back? no but it feels good doing it right doesnt it

there are 2 or 3 options he has, i say do it once and do it the right way. the mileage on all the cars he has is high and will he ever recoup the cash spent ? no, but there's a sense of satisfaction in doing things the right way. why take the easy way out and save 800 now ?
if that was the case, you car, simons cars and few others here would just mingle into the crowd with the rest.
the car performing as it should will make it sell later down the line. if it does not feel as good as another then it wont sell, mileage or not. while mileage affects the value, these cars are as much about performance as well as the overall condition

if it was you, i'm sure you'd do the head work and have it as it should be. i dont know any one as particular about the details on any car as you ;)


PS, ews is not that complex, and certainly does not require changing barrels and keys.

simply swopping the chip from one key to another does the job

[Demlotcrew]

Bazza must be at a meet, no Quoting replies so far

[Kos]

Bazza must be at a meet, no Quoting replies so far

surrey scum meet

[e30topless]

Has the Pina head been pressure tested ect ?

[Blitz]

Dont know if this is relevant but...

http://www.e34m5.de/board/showthread.ph ... ge=1&pp=15

[Kos]

Has the Pina head been pressure tested ect ?

i thinks its cracked again

repair that head or build/rework another to the right spec is the way forward

[bss325i]

OK barry

you're right

I know.

but a question

how much is the head gasket and associated parts ? it is still an extra cost later down the line

Well a genuine BMW head gasket is £125 so a victor reinz one will be less than £100.
The head bolts are £11 for the set and the exhaust manifold and inlet manifold gaskets will go again.

So we are looking at about the £100 mark for the parts, not much different from the auto trans oil.

while it may be agrro to change the engine, so is pulling apart an engine that is working fine to do a job that can be done now. the car is off the road and its costing you more money and time

Yes but its much more time and aggro to change an engine than to do a head gasket and will cost more time and money and the car will be off the road longer.

he bought the car because he likes it and based on the fact the rest of the condition is good and it can be a nice car. which is why you bought he B10.

did your B10 really need all the top end work ? some money has been spent on it, and i'm sure the cost of what you have done so far is mounting up. will you get it back? no but it feels good doing it right doesnt it

Yes it did need some top end work because the retard who worked on it before, didn't put it back together properly. All i did was take it apart and put it back together right, no expensive head repairs.

Again, you do not know what the B10 has cost me so how can you say that? I know it owes me less than what it realistically is worth at the moment thanks to some schrewd buying and selling.

This is all irrelevant though because my B10 was a known entity where as Simon's is more of the unknown.

there are 2 or 3 options he has, i say do it once and do it the right way. the mileage on all the cars he has is high and will he ever recoup the cash spent ? no, but there's a sense of satisfaction in doing things the right way. why take the easy way out and save 800 now ?
if that was the case, you car, simons cars and few others here would just mingle into the crowd with the rest.
the car performing as it should will make it sell later down the line. if it does not feel as good as another then it wont sell, mileage or not. while mileage affects the value, these cars are as much about performance as well as the overall condition

I dont think you quite understand what i have been saying, yes by all means get the B3 back to how it should be but be smart an make sure its ok in other areas before dropping £800 on some head work.

What if Si dropped that £800 on the head got it up and running then found out the box was f*cked? Should have sorted that first so he could at least use the car.

if it was you, i'm sure you'd do the head work and have it as it should be. i dont know any one as particular about the details on any car as you ;)

I may be particular about the details but im also realistic and wise to what may be a potential problem. That headwork would not be getting done till i knew the rest of the car was ok.

PS, ews is not that complex, and certainly does not require changing barrels and keys.

simply swopping the chip from one key to another does the job

Come on Kos, i dont need lessons in EWS from you or anyone.

Its quicker to change a barrel (and its reversible) than to hack up two keys for the chips to be swapped over.

There is only one sensible route to take and Simon has already realised that's the one to take.

[bss325i]

Bazza must be at a meet, no Quoting replies so far

That last post good enough for you?