M50 Developments - considering an M50? Read this.

[Andy325i]

Hi reardiffer , did you get a chance to find out about the E34 loom and the E36 prop etc? Don't want to rush you, just itching to get it running now!

Is yours all sorted now?

Tried to Pm you but its not sending


Kind regards

Andy

[buster]

i know i have to grind the locating tab off the mount but do both mounts need doing ?

Rubber tang on left one and metal tang on the underside of the right one ?

I ask as i will do them at work tonight so that they are ready for instalation this weekend.

ta

[ian332isport]

i know i have to grind the locating tab off the mount but do both mounts need doing ?

Rubber tang on left one and metal tang on the underside of the right one ?

I ask as i will do them at work tonight so that they are ready for instalation this weekend.

ta

Hi Andy,

I can't remember to be honest. I'm pretty sure I removed both, but also pretty sure it was only one that actually needed it.

I hope that really concise answer is okay

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

thanks .I have just left them on,will remove if needed tomorrow when i fit the engineI think it will be the right one.

I am a bit concerned though as to the orientation of the engine as both mounts have an offset thread to each end therefore the engine could move about 20mm each way but if the mounts located then there would be no side to side run out.

you get what i mean ?

[ian332isport]

Andy,

Again, it's been a while since I did mine, but from memory, it goes something like this.

One mount is fitted the correct way around, and the other is turned 180 degrees (can't remember which is rotated - if I had to guess I'd say the drivers side).

When you fit the mounts on the crossmember, you use the outer set of holes (that were originally used for the locating dowels on the E30 mounts). You need to align the new mounts so that the top (offset) stud is towards the centre of the car. This has the effect of keeping the engine centred in the engine bay, but the stud spacing is now correct for the E36 engine support arms.

Cheers,

Ian.

[Brianmoooore]

Thisis from my notes, using E34 M50 mounts, so don't know if it's relevent to you or no.
LH mount is fitted reversed. i.e. stud in slotted hole and locating peg in round hole.
RH mount is fitted stud in round hole and new 10mm hole for locating peg drilled 17mm towards the centre of the car.

[buster]

hi guys need a quick reply as im stuck.Do i need a different sump or something as i have the enigne stuck and the sump is resting on the cross member.its jammed in

[Andy325i]

Do you need to use the E34 520i/525i sump as we are using maybe?

[buster]

no one told me id need one

Been trying to get it in there all day

Looks like it according to that pic,will they fit the s50 engine ?

[Andy325i]

no one told me id need one

Been trying to get it in there all day

Looks like it according to that pic,will they fit the s50 engine ?

That only Ian can answer mate, if this is the route you need to take then you will need to use the oil pick up pipe as well.

Andy

You look like you are making great progress dude!

[Brianmoooore]

You need the oil pick up pipe as well as the sump.

[ian332isport]

Hi Andy,

Ah....yes.... you will be needing the E34 M50 oil pan, pickup pipe and pump. All parts are a direct swap for the S50 parts currently fitted.

I sort of assumed you knew this already, so had not mentioned it

When the sump is off, you will also need to remove the pickup pipe support bracket from one of the main bearing caps. If you leave it fitted, it stops the E34 sump from sitting correctly.

Cheers,

Ian.

[ian332isport]

Oh yeah, you also need the dipstick and dipstick tube from the E34 as well.

Ian.

[buster]

ok where can i get that lot from ??

heres todays pics



can see sump is at back on here



m20 coming out.



sump sat on cross member

Does anyone have a pic of the pump etc ?

I am going to take off sump and fit the engine without sump on as the hoist needs to go back.Then replace pump and strainer and new sump pannel when i get them and if i have to just jack engine up off the mounts.

Is that possible or is it going to have to be done out of the car ?
Is there two drives for the pump ?? how do i remove the pump etc .

[ian332isport]

Hi Andy,

I got my sump, pickup pipe and dipstick tube from FAB, but any decent scrappies should be able to help.

I didn't fancy using a used oil pump, so got a 3L M3 pump new from the dealer. I don't believe there is any difference between a regular 2.5 E34 M50 pump and the 3L M3 pump, apart form the pickup pipe (this is why it has a different part number). I'm 99.9% sure the pump itself is the same though.

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

what drives the oil pump ,can it simply unbolted and then bolt the new one in the other end or does the pump stay in the same place ?

So can i use the oil pump i have but with the m50 oil strainer/pick up pipe ?

[ian332isport]

what drives the oil pump ,can it simply unbolted and then bolt the new one in the other end or does the pump stay in the same place ?

So can i use the oil pump i have but with the m50 oil strainer/pick up pipe ?

Hi Andy,

The 3.2 Evo engine has a special pump and sump arrangement with twin pickups. This cannot be retained in the E30 chassis bacause of the need to use the E34 sump. The E34 and 3.2 Evo pumps are both fitted at the front of the engine, and are both driven from a chain drive from the crankshaft (visible when the sump is removed). There is no way you can use the 3.2 Evo pump. Sorry.

On a more positive note, the Evo sump, pump and pickup arrangement are actually quite valuable. I sold mine to some American guy for about Ԛ£450 (+ postage if my memory serves me correctly). You may not get as much as this now due to the exchange rate, but it's certainly worth more than you are going to have to fork out for the E34 parts.

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

ok thanks Ian.I am going to remove them tomorrow and get the engine sat down on the mounts without the sump.Then when i get the new sump and pump fit them in situe.

do you think i could part exchange them with FAB for the parts i need ?

what a day ive had

[ian332isport]

do you think i could part exchange them with FAB for the parts i need ?

I guess it's possible. M3 Evo parts are going to be worth more to FAB than E34 325i parts, so they may do a deal. It's got to be worth asking at least.

One thing I will say about FAB, is that they do a bloody good job of cleaning stuff before sending it out. My sump was so clean you could have cooked your dinner in it

Cheers,

Ian.

[Karan]

i 'think' u need an e34 m50 one...... best check with Ian....

[buster]

been busy today.

Heres what an s50 conversion looks like if you try and fit it with its original sump.Bonnet bulge anyone ??



And this is what it looks like in with the correct sump (m50 e34) although i have removed sump until i get the new one this week if i can get one.



Heres a few more in place.





Looking good ehh ??

[ian332isport]

Good work there Andy

Is it sitting on it's mounts okay ?

Ian.

[buster]

yeah,the drivers side mount fitted the correct way up locating tab in the e30 mount hole and stud through outer hole,the passenger side mount turned upside down with rubber tang chopped off also bolted through outer hole.

[Karan]

mmmmmmmmmmm throttle bodies....cant wait to get my beast running...

[buster]

look smart dont they Karan,had a little go with the throttle to see them open and shut

Anyone know the weight differance of the m20 and s50 ?? it seems to be sat about the same height

[jmc330i]

Looking good The S50 seems to suit the E30 engine bay.

Im not sure on the weight difference between M20/S50, but mine sits at about the same height on the standard Mtech suspension.

I was going to measure the front height before I took the M20 out, so I could compare it with when the S50 was fitted, but totally forgot to do it.

[buster]

I think i maybe able to mod the oil pump so that the twin pick ups go to the front of the sump where they are needed on the 525 sump.Will have to wait and see when i get the new sump.

Ian ,you used a 3ltr m3 pump but did you use the m50 pick up pipe ??
The reason i ask is surely the 3ltr and 3.2ltr have the sump bump at the back just the 3.2 has a little one at the front also.Does the m50 oil pump have a removable pick up pipe then ?

[iKst]

Ive got problems...again

Engine wont start. I connected all the wires i have (some are missing on my car ) but it still wont start. It is turning, gas pump works ok, but there is no spark.

Does anyone know what could i do wrong. I know there is not enough info, but if someone has an idea please help.

Tnx

[ian332isport]

Ian ,you used a 3ltr m3 pump but did you use the m50 pick up pipe ??
The reason i ask is surely the 3ltr and 3.2ltr have the sump bump at the back just the 3.2 has a little one at the front also.Does the m50 oil pump have a removable pick up pipe then ?

Andy,

Yes, the 3ltr m3 pump has a removable pickup pipe. The pipe on the 3ltr m3 is quite long and stretches to the rear of the E36 sump. The E34 M50 pump is the same, but the pickup pipe is totally different, and drops down under the pump into the oil reservior below.

Ian.

[buster]

cheers Ian,i suppose if im buying a new pump i will just get a m50 525 one.But first i am going to look into modding the evo pump once i have seen the new sump.I may be able to re pipe it to the front.

Looked on that site you sudjested,good pics.Did you make your gearbox mount yourself ?? you've done a good job if you did.

Do you know the weight of the s50 compared to the m20 ?

[ian332isport]

cheers Ian,i suppose if im buying a new pump i will just get a m50 525 one.But first i am going to look into modding the evo pump once i have seen the new sump.I may be able to re pipe it to the front.

Looked on that site you sudjested,good pics.Did you make your gearbox mount yourself ?? you've done a good job if you did.

Do you know the weight of the s50 compared to the m20 ?

Andy,

The only problem I can see with trying to retain the Evo pump, is the front pickup. This is molded into the actual pump, and is designed to suck oil from the small reservoir at the front of the Evo sump. Once the E34 M50 sump is fitted, it will be sucking fresh air most of the time, so may be an issue.

Yup, the gearbox mount is all my own work apart from the couple of bends in the 6mm alloy plate. I got a local fabricators to do this on their hydraulic bender as it was way to thick to bend at home.

Not sure on the exact weight of the S50. I know it is heavier than the M20, but not sure how much. It was enough to make my car fail it's MOT on headlamp aim

Ian.

[buster]

Hi Ian,thanks for your reply.

You mention the front moulded pick up pipe,this i think dumps oil back to the rear of the sump down the smaller pipe which runs to the back parallel with the suction pipe for the back.
According to the etk it says the smaller pipe is return and large pipe is suction,thats what i am basing my assumption on.Therefore maybe it doesnt matter as long as the rearward suction pipe(the one i am thinking of modifying) is at the front and the return pipe also at the front.

What do you think ??

[ian332isport]

Hi Ian,thanks for your reply.

You mention the front moulded pick up pipe,this i think dumps oil back to the rear of the sump down the smaller pipe which runs to the back parallel with the suction pipe for the back.
According to the etk it says the smaller pipe is return and large pipe is suction,thats what i am basing my assumption on.Therefore maybe it doesnt matter as long as the rearward suction pipe(the one i am thinking of modifying) is at the front and the return pipe also at the front.

What do you think ??

Andy,

No , the second pickup that I'm on about is part of the pump casting. It's right at the front, and has a domed gauze filter on the end.
[img]http://www.racepad.com/projects/euro_mo ... mp[lg].jpg[/img]

Ian.

[Andy335Touring]

Try here for engine weights

http://forums.mwerks.com/zerothread?id=912412

[buster]

thats the one i was talking about when i said moulded part.That bit sucks from the front and then into the pump then down the skinny pipe on the back of the pump and dumps at the back next to the large suction pipe at the rear of the sump.I think.

Cheers andy for that link